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Topic: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions (Read 1043 times) previous topic - next topic

Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

I have done it too and glad as it has made service etc a lot easier and it works so smooth without the worry of outside temps affecting it. Lucky me was able to make that pantry which Ruth thinks is great--more stuff to pack!!
John H
John,
About how many watts of solar panels are needed to ensure enough charge?  Inverter size?  how many coach batteries?  How about overnight usage by the electric fridge?
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #1
John,
About how many watts of solar panels are needed to ensure enough charge?  Inverter size?  how many coach batteries?  How about overnight usage by the electric fridge?

Peter,
Barry gave some amp/hr readings a while back but H\here are calculated values from the Gov. Energy sticker:

386.00   kw/yr  (from sticker)
    equals
1.058   kw/day
0.044   kw/hr
3.67   amps @ 12v

I think Barry's number was a little lower but not a whole lot.

The solar generation numbers have never stuck in my cortex to the point that they are useful.

hth.
Elliott & Mary Bray
ex. 1996 36' U295 - Build 4879
ex. 2018 Coachmen Leprechaun 319MB
 

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #2
Peter,
Barry gave some amp/hr readings a while back but H\here are calculated values from the Gov. Energy sticker:

386.00   kw/yr  (from sticker)
    equals
1.058   kw/day
0.044   kw/hr
3.67   amps @ 12v

I think Barry's number was a little lower but not a whole lot.

The solar generation numbers have never stuck in my cortex to the point that they are useful.

hth.
Thanks Elliott.  So it's about a 1,000 watts per day for average use (whatever that is).  So if you're conservative about opening & closing the fridge door and not overload the unit, the usage may be less...I got it.  Thanks again.

So the question remains, what solar panel wattage would be an adequate supply for a boondocker, batteries needed, inverter capacity?  Assuming that the boondocker is fairly conservative from an energy usage standpoint?
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #3
This is something that we've discussed as we consider what to get for our full-time coach. We looked at some campsites near Nac, but they are all boondocking sites, and our little mpg just isn't set up for that. A motor home, with a generator, could run the a/c. I'm guessing that solar just isn't going to cut it for that. Now, if one doesn't need the a/c, solar sounds like the way to go.

More to discuss with you experts later on.


Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #4
Peter, to begin with we are not great users of air conditioning as we use small fans to circulate a breeze, even at home here and it does get warm(average 35-45 celcius in summer months), so that apart, on our coach I have 600 watts and 3- 8D AGM lifelines for storage. I am considering a 4th one and another panel, making it 750, but , having said that we had no problem last winter for 3 months in Mexico keeping everything working and Ruth doing all the normal cooking etc as when hooked up to shore power.
I did, over a year ago put in a smaller 1000watt Pure sine inv to handle the evening use (ie tv, stereo, dvd, etc and it powers a couple of plugs and now the fridge. It uses a lot less stand by power than the 2500 prosine one. (see Barry's mod' pages on his site)
Last winter with normal usage (but not the frige as we did not have it) the batteries did not go below 78% and just after noon each day were back up to 100% (sun of course needed) and they were tilted for max' charge possible. We have become very concious of power usage and that certainly helps.
Using the air would definitly affect the power consumption in a negative way, but do not know what speed the batteries would be depleted ( maybe I should test it!!) If we were fulltiming there could be a couple of things we may have to change(lifestyle things) but feel it would not be much. I do not get into the mathematical questions as far as energy used but do know we can happily go on our way with no problems. When I do add the extra battery it will extend our energy available quite a bit and the extra panel would help speed up recharge of the bank.
I have said before that adding the extra inverter is a sensible and easy addition, and strongly  suggest everyone do it to make whatever battery power you have last longer.
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #5
John,
Thanks for the input.  It'll be interesting to see what you discover when boondocking and using the fridge.  As to the roof A/C's, I think that the 120VAC circuitry for these do not run through the inverter circuits (either direct shore power or genset).  You may have to mod the wiring to be able to even test the theory.
Peter
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #6
We have recently boondocked extensively in the desert and use both our Whirlpool electric fridge and our U-Line ice maker.  The ice maker is on for the day when it's sunny, and off at night.  We have 5 100W solar panels and 2 8D AGM batteries, and even with the ice maker running off the main inverter during the day, we are usually charged up to 100% by ~2:00PM. 

We don't watch much TV but do use our computers extensively in the evening.  I have our Trimetric battery monitor set to think we have 1/2 the total battery capacity that we actually do (never want to go below 50%!), and even with all the useage mentioned, we have never been below an indicated 70% by morning.

We have a separate 600W true-sine wave inverter for the fridge, so we can turn off the main inverter at night or if it's a cloudy day.    When we use the microwave extensively, we run the generator to avoid extra stress on the inverter or batteries, since the inverter (2 kw Xantrex ProSine) sometimes complains about overheating (closed center compartment...) in the summer.

I would not even try to use the batteries/inverter to power a roof AC without 4-6 8D AGMs and 1 KW of solar.
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #7
there you go Peter, info from a good source. I did not look at the wiring schematic to see if power for roof air is or is not also from inverter and Dave say's not.
Using the tv etc thru the 1000w inverter was not a problem and do not forget I have changed all my lights to led so there is a saving too. I do not see the fridge being a real draw of available power. First I have to get new front (at minimum) tires in a week or so due to a crack in one that I do not like!! then we will see about 1 or more panels, and the battery addition. I think I have talked myself into Toyo M154 h tires. I had them for many years on the BMW 7 and a few of the tire guys I talked to over the border say they run them and think there fine, so we will see.
John H
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #8
John, with two 8D batteries and 600 watts of solar, I believe you need more solar but not more batteries.
The question in my mind is, how many amphours are your batteries down each morning? Batteries are expensive, heavy, and wear out in one to ten years.

Based on trial and error over seven years, I use the following battery/solar sizing parameters:
One 8D battery (240 amphour) will provide 25 to 50 amphours (10% - 20%) at night and requires 300 watts of solar (for 60 amphours charging during a sunny day). 

I have 800 watts on my U320 with two 8D AGM batteries, so 600 watts solar is for charging batteries and 200 watts of solar is for running ceiling fans and other things during the day. Using 50 amphours overnight means batteries are 10% discharged, using 100 amphours overnight means batteries are 20% discharged, using 150 amphours overnight means batteries are 30% discharged. Even at 30% discharged, the batteries will be fully charged by late afternoon on a sunny day. Batteries will last 7 to 10 years like this.

Last winter in California my batteries were down 30 to 50 amphours most mornings, but were at times down 80 amphours or more by morning. Twice, due to overcast, my batteries were not fully charged by evening.

I am very frugal with power use and so, like you, have also gone all LED lights. I also have an on-off switch for the inverter in the kitchen and only turn it on when needed. I never waste power by leaving the inverter on for convenience.

I replaced the 2500 watt "inverter/converter/battery charger" with an 1800 watt pure sign inverter and a 55 watt converter (not a battery charger). The reason for 1800 watts is that it will run any one thing that is plugged into it without overload (except A/C). I am careful to NOT overload the inverter. I run the microwave several times every day on the inverter. The reason for pure sign is that the number of amps required from batteries to run a 120V AC appliance is less with a pure sign than with a modified inverter (I measured it). I did not choose to have a second smaller inverter for small loads like TV because the new pure sign inverters today use very little power when idle compared to inverters from 15 years ago.

Running a domestic (12 volt compressor type) refrigerator on solar will require 100 amphours on a 100 degree day, or about 500 watts of dedicated solar panels. I investigated this when my cooling unit failed in January. I replaced the cooling unit because when in Canada, I do not have enough solar even without a domestic refer.

Running air conditioning on solar is possible. Solar Mike who has a solar business at Slab City in California runs air conditioning in August on solar with several thousand watts of solar panels on stationary mounts. Our motorhomes just do not have enough roof space at this time - in 50 years, who knows.




Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #9
I think the issue is AC or not.  I use the AC more than not.  It is very hot and humid in the south east and even altitude does not really help. I had solar on my first coach and 4 8D Gell batteries as well as 400 watts of solar. It kept the ice make ( Uline) and everything else running overnight and during the day as long as I did not need AC.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #10
My plans are to install about 600W of solar panels on the roof of the RV (36' U225) to work with two 8D wet-cell batteries through an MPPT charger/controller. We have one red-top battery for engine starting. The refrigerator is a new Dometic propane/AC model and I don't plan to change that unless I'm forced to.

The MPPT controller is nice because I can buy panels designed for 24V systems and still use them on my 12V system.

I bought a 1500W pure-sine inverter to run coffee makers, toasters, and miscellaneous loads (hand tools, etc.). I discovered that a cheap (under $40) inverter that plugs into a DC cigarette lighter plug will run the 19" LED HDTV and the BluRay player (total draw is 30W on a 150W inverter). The TV and BluRay don't seem to mind the modified sine waveshape and the idle is zero since we only plug the inverter in for TV use. We are using a cigarette lighter socket that is mounted in the overhead cupboard behind the old CRT TV mount which I assume is on the coach (not chassis) batteries.

I am also changing out lights to LED and have replaced all the incandescent (bedroom and bathroom) lights with plug-compatible LEDs. Much easier than changing the entire fixture. I'll wait until ballasts go out on the florescent lights.  I bought these at a Winnebago rally the DW's parents were attending from a nice couple at welcome to jclampstand.com! who work out of Calif. I think. Watch the configuration of the LEDs you buy (spot or general) and the plug style as there are interesting differences in our coach.

I think that 600W of solar will do the job for us unless I go crazy with ham radio operating or decide to watch satellite TV 24-hours a day. The A/C issue we'll solve by moving north in the summer, finding an RV park now and then, or running the generator. Our planned summer HQ has a 50-Amp plug, a shop, and a 600 sq. ft. apartment.

We lived on a sailboat with 66W of solar panels for 5 years and even ran a 12vdc compressor-type fridge. But the fridge was chest type and very well insulated. Still got enough ice to give each of us a cold drink in the cockpit at sundown along with lights and ham radio. 66W of solar panels on a sailboat was serious innovation in the early 1980s.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #11
Wyatt, I have 3- 8D agm's and  yes I feel that I need to increase the roof wattage for safety. We do not leave the 2500 inverter on when not actually using it so there is no waste there.
While travelling from Texas in March after we had bought the res' fridge we had it connected so we could use it and was supprised how little it used overnight after checking the trimetic etc.
Unlike your location we here have sun most days of the year here in the South Okanagan even it is only for a few hours ( on a bad day) so charging here has not been a problem as I do not leave it plugged in on 120v.
We do not have any ceiling fans but use the small efficient ones instead of air. I was up on the roof a few days ago looking at the space available for panels and may need to move one and get 1 or 2 more up there, but we will see what our trips this year show we need to do.
John H
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Boondocking and sizing solar/electrical questions

Reply #12
I consider 3 8D Gel batteries and 480 watts of solar as the minimum for full time boondocking. Even then, we use a Yamaha EF2400ISH generator to supplement in the wintertime due to shorter charging days.
Due to the price of batteries these days, we are very careful to not run our batteries down below 12.4 volts to insure a long battery life.  We use solar lighting and separate inverters for our computers. 
We have been living as full time boondockers for over 12 years and have learned a lot.
Regards,
JON TWORK KB8RSA
Full Time RVer (10+ Years) & Dedicated Boondocker
Retired, Unemployed, Homeless Transients
1996 Foretravel U270-36 w/24' Timberwolf Trailer
I firmly believe that tomorrow holds the possibility for new technologies, astounding discoveries, and a reprieve from my remaining obligations.
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