Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much (Read 857 times) previous topic - next topic

Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

We have 2 carbon monoxide detectors. (Walmart's best!) One in the bedroom and one in the kitchen. The one in the bedroom went off about 8 months ago when we were camping at Mesa Verde, CO. The windows where open and our neighbors had a huge fire going. I assumed it was fumes from the fire that caused it. Then a month later at Tiger Run outside of Breckenridge, CO it went off again. There was no fire anywhere but the furnace and the hot water heater (Atwood) were running. Opened the windows and pulled the detector batteries until it cleared.

Took Barry's advise from another thread carbon monoxide detectors and installed a detector that showed a numerical level of carbon monoxide in addition to the alarm.

We camped all winter in Denver (Dakota Ridge Campground) and had the alarm go off several times about once or twice a month. The levels where usually in the low 20s. By trial and error determined that it must be the water heater. The water heater looks like it was the original but not sure. So figured the water heater was due to be replaced. Installed a new Atwood but still get occasional alarms usually in the low 20s but once 60ppm! Always the water heater is on when this happens. We turn off the water heater and the ppms go down to 0 after a half an hour or so. Looked at the flame in the water heater and it looked good no yellow but adjusted it to the wide open position since we are at close to 7000 feet elevation at the moment. Still no yellow in flame. Sounds and looks like a jet engine when on.

Not sure how it's getting into the coach. The water heater direct vents outside. Windows are closed. The wind must need to be just the right direction and speed since it happens so infrequently and we use the water heater everyday. We have single pane windows so could be there or maybe it's coming through the wheel wells into the engine compartment then from under the bed into the coach!

Per Carbon monoxide poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia via the chart below 20ppm for a short period of time seems to be ok but I still don't like it. Would like 0ppm! Heck OSHA says 50ppm averaged over 8 hours is ok! Maybe 0ppms is not possible. The most we get exposed to is .5 to 1 hour.

Anyone else have this issue? opinions? Is some carbon monoxide normal??

see ya
ken

ConcentrationSymptoms
35 ppm (0.0035%)Headache and dizziness within six to eight hours of constant exposure
100 ppm (0.01%)    Slight headache in two to three hours
200 ppm (0.02%) Slight headache within two to three hours; loss of judgment
400 ppm (0.04%) Frontal headache within one to two hours
800 ppm (0.08%) Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 min; insensible within 2 hours
1,600 ppm (0.16%)Headache, tachycardia, dizziness, and nausea within 20 min; death in less than 2 hours
3,200 ppm (0.32%)Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes.
6,400 ppm (0.64%)Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Convulsions, respiratory arrest, and death in less than 20 minutes.
12,800 ppm (1.28%)Unconsciousness after 2-3 breaths. Death in less than three minutes.
The selected media item is not currently available.ken & dori hathaway & Big Agnes
🍺1992 U300 GrandVilla WTBI #4150 FOT FBP 2011
✨6V-92TA DDEC Parlor Coach 350HP Series 92
🏁2011 Nissan XTerra Pro-4X

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #1 –
You might check all your stove pilot lights also. Any time a flame comes in contact with metal, the temperature is lowered at the contact area and CO is produced. Fridge should also be looked at. You did well looking for any trace of yellow in the flame. This is a sure sign CO is being produced.

Here is a quote from a medical website: "When CO is inhaled, it combines with the oxygen carrying hemoglobin of the blood to form carboxyhemoglobin (COHb). Once combined with the hemoglobin, that hemoglobin is no longer available for transporting oxygen."

High altitude and CO are an especially bad combination for someone with heart problems and/or COPD. Pilots should go on oxygen when flying at 5,000 feet at night and will have better night vision if they use oxygen at 4000 feet.

Smokers are already exposed to pretty good levels of CO so with an added CO source plus high altitude will effect everything from vision and judgement to potentially deadly heart issues. One pack a day = 20ppm, two packs a day = 40ppm.

After exposure to CO, you are not out of the woods by going outside in fresh air. It takes quite a while for the hemoglobin to regain it's ability to carry oxygen.

Pierce
 
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #2 –
Here is an excellent read for all RV owners. Not just limited to those who might use their stove or an unvented or catalytic heater to heat their rig. Covers almost any possibility I can think of.

Vent Free Heater Cautions

Choosing A CO Alarm has a lot of tips on buying a CO digital meter and EPA recommendations for CO exposure.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #3 –
@Pierce we don't use the pilot lights in the stove & we are using AC for the fridge. Also ditto on how nasty CO can be which is why I'm concerned about the low level exposure we are getting.

I've lived at 6100 ft for the last 26 years. Now I know why my night vision is so bad! :)

I used to own a SOB (Pace Arrow) that I used to go skiing in. On a clear night the temps would drop from 30° to -20° overnight. Would not have survived without a catalytic heater. Luckily that coach was anything but tight! Probably saved my life. No CO detector back then. It sure was nice to wake up  a couple of hundred feet from the lift. Those were the days.

see ya
ken
The selected media item is not currently available.ken & dori hathaway & Big Agnes
🍺1992 U300 GrandVilla WTBI #4150 FOT FBP 2011
✨6V-92TA DDEC Parlor Coach 350HP Series 92
🏁2011 Nissan XTerra Pro-4X

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #4 –
Ken,

I remember saving to buy propane canisters for the Coleman catalytic heater we had hanging on the wall of the van in cold weather.

When Gaylie visited Santa Fe the first time, she fainted at the opera. We had standing room tickets in the back but after a few minutes at the nurse's station, they gave us seats in about the fourth row. Free! 8000 feet can surprise you.

I think it takes about 3 weeks for your blood to acclimate to the altitude.

Ebay has hand held digital CO detectors for $50-60 so think I will pick one up after reading above site. We do have an unvented heater so it would be nice to see how high the CO level is.

I had an all stainless kerosene heater on my boat that vented out the cabin roof with no CO emissions in the cabin. No electricity but just a 2 gallon tank that needed pumping every couple of hours. Worked well with no noise or odor. Very small and good looking so I would not hesitate to install it in our U300.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #5 –
Even reading about space heaters of any kind in a MH scares me. I would not under any circumstance have one in my MH.  I know that there are stories and claims about their safety but I choose not to believe them. Better cold than dead and cold.
Gary B :o

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #6 –
               We have had a similer "ghost" alarm in our coach but it is the propane detector in the galley. It has gone off only in the wee hours of the morning, like 2-3:00 a.m. and not every night. It will alarm a couple nights in a row then nothing for a week.

                            I have sniffed and checked for leaks and have found nothing. This is with fridge and water heater on d.c.

 I am thinking about replacing the detector to see if it stops. Kind of annoying (and scary) to have it scream in the middle of the night.
Dean & Deirdre

2012 Arctic Fox 22GQ
Was 2003 U270

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Dean & Dee –
                We have had a similer "ghost" alarm in our coach but it is the propane detector in the galley. It has gone off only in the wee hours of the morning, like 2-3:00 a.m. and not every night. It will alarm a couple nights in a row then nothing for a week.

                            I have sniffed and checked for leaks and have found nothing. This is with fridge and water heater on d.c.

 I am thinking about replacing the detector to see if it stops. Kind of annoying (and scary) to have it scream in the middle of the night.

D&D,

If your detectors are original to the coach, it's past time to replace them.  The CO and LP detectors should be replaced when they are 7 years old.  Smoke detector has a bit longer life, but we went ahead and replaced it as well when we did the others (it's an easy find at either Home Depot or Lowes).

Michelle
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #8 –
                 Thanks Michelle. That's now on the ever growing project list. ;) It's raining here for the next three days so replacing detectors may be a good way to pass some time.
Dean & Deirdre

2012 Arctic Fox 22GQ
Was 2003 U270

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #9 –
And please, do go thinking that taking apart the detector and cleaning it by blowing it off with air is going to do any good!  I find some things I read on various RV forums down right scary.  To think that some folks out there are gambling with not only their own, but their families life's.
1994 U225
build #4514

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #10 –
Two CO detectors in the sleeping area can be a life saver. Not good to depend on one inexpensive device to prevent a death. Digital read out is a good feature to have on a CO detector.

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #11 –
@Berry do you ever see more than 0ppm on your detector? I'm trying to determine if ppm > 0 is normal on occasion. IIRC you had the Atwood water heater also?

BTW: great profile pic of your coach!

see ya
ken
The selected media item is not currently available.ken & dori hathaway & Big Agnes
🍺1992 U300 GrandVilla WTBI #4150 FOT FBP 2011
✨6V-92TA DDEC Parlor Coach 350HP Series 92
🏁2011 Nissan XTerra Pro-4X

Re: Carbon Monoxide - how much is too much

Reply #12 –
Not carbon monoxide but...

So Mr. Clean decides that after changing the garbage compactor bag he will spray the interior of the compactor with Lysol.  Blue bloody murder breaks out!  Propane, carbon monoxide & smoke alarms all go off together and boy are they loud.  All the windows are open and everyone must have heard it.  No-one pays any attention.  Remove smoke detector battery hold hand over propane detector.  Curse at propane detector.  After an eternity it all goes quite.  In future I will leave the bloody germs alone.

Keith
Keith, Joyce & Smokey the Australian Cattle Dog
1995 U320 SE Extreme 40' WTBI Build # 4780, with a Honda CR-V hopefully still following behind.
Motorcade # 17030
FMCA # F422159