Alignment. Good place in Belvidere, IL.

Topic: Alignment. Good place in Belvidere, IL. (Read 1061 times) previous topic - next topic

Alignment. Good place in Belvidere, IL.

June 04, 2012, 02:09:50 pm

Coach was nervous at speed and needed constant correction, signs of a toe-out condition. Called the Representative for Hunter, who make alignment equipment (the same as Foretravel use), and was recommended to this shop. They have up-to-date equipment and a tech who knows how to use it. Coach runs on rails now.

Besides complete alignment including thrust angle they set the ride height back to specs. Cost $250 and took 2.5 hours to do it right.

Marv has a 70' pit and does other repair work on heavy trucks. He owns a RV so understands them.

Marv's Towing & Repair, Inc. - Home Page

Keith

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #1 – June 05, 2012, 06:44:48 pm

Thanks for the post.
I will keep this service center info, I'm sure at some point I will need it.

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #2 – June 05, 2012, 07:52:17 pm

Thanks Keith. I'll add this to my Chicago area service list. Can never have too many good resources for service closer to home than Nac.

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #3 – June 05, 2012, 08:30:51 pm

Quote from: Keith and Joyce – June 04, 2012, 02:09:50 pm

Coach was nervous at speed and needed constant correction, signs of a toe-out condition. Called the Representative for Hunter, who make alignment equipment (the same as Foretravel use), and was recommended to this shop. They have up-to-date equipment and a tech who knows how to use it. Coach runs on rails now.

Besides complete alignment including thrust angle they set the ride height back to specs. Cost $250 and took 2.5 hours to do it right.

Marv's Towing & Repair, Inc. - Home Page

Keith

Is thrust angle the same thing as caster? If so, can you tell us what angle was set? Did they add toe in beyond stock spec?

Thanks, Chuck

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #4 – June 05, 2012, 08:40:29 pm

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – June 05, 2012, 08:30:51 pm

Is thrust angle the same thing as caster? If so, can you tell us what angle was set? Did they add toe in beyond stock spec?

Thanks, Chuck

No. It is the alignment of front/rear axle along the axis of the vehicle: Brake & Front End: The Complete Undercar Service Magazine

Brett

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #5 – June 06, 2012, 12:27:32 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – June 05, 2012, 08:40:29 pm

No. It is the alignment of front/rear axle along the axis of the vehicle: Brake & Front End: The Complete Undercar Service Magazine

Brett

Ah. Thanks. I'm about to try cranking in a bit more toe in. Front and rear alignment are to spec as are toe and caster but still not happy.

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #6 – June 06, 2012, 09:50:14 am

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – June 06, 2012, 12:27:32 am

Ah. Thanks. I'm about to try cranking in a bit more toe in. Front and rear alignment are to spec as are toe and caster but still not happy.

Wayne at FOT aligned our coach. It is way better than it was, but still requires constant attention to keep it centered in the lane. I assume it is the "nature of the beast." Keith's description as "needed constant correction" is descriptive of our experience. I think I would prefer to experience what he describes as "runs on rails."

My understanding is that coaches longer than 36' and coaches with tag axles are more stable. I would be interested in the results of Chuck's modification to "toe in" a bit more. I would gladly trade a bit more stability for a bit more tire wear. We won't use a significant amount of tire tread anyway.

I would also be interested in "trading coaches" with someone for a few miles to see if ours is easier, more difficult, or the same to drive as other coaches. Unfortunately, we don't normally travel with other FTs, so we don't have that opportunity.

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #7 – June 06, 2012, 10:24:56 am

JD, If you are anywhere near GA give me a call. You are welcome to come drive mine any time.
Gary B

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #8 – June 06, 2012, 11:30:00 am

J.D.,

Wayne did mine also, after I had it aligned at a commercial truck place in Tucson and was dissatisfied. What I don't think either place did, however, was really check for worn components, starting at wheel bearings and working in. I'm going to jack it up and do this, if all is ok then I will incrementally add toe in. I agree with you on the tire wear, it's a non issue unless it gets truly excessive. Won't be adding that much toe in though.

Regarding the length of vehicle, no doubt tandem axles would help but c'mon. My dually pickup steers ok and it's got far more miles on it, and is much shorter wheelbase. Something isn't dialed in and I'm going to do my best to find it. I've all but given up on alignment shops and it's not feasible to drive to Chicago.

It'll be a couple weeks min before I start this but will advise of results.

Chuck

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #9 – June 06, 2012, 12:00:26 pm

Wayne replaced front wheel bearing seals at the same time he aligned it. I expect that would have involved checking and setting the bearings. At <80,000 miles, the parts should have little wear. He replaced the steering gear with a remanufactured unit last December (failed seal on the "difficult" side). All parts should be good.

Handling is OK, but is certainly not "point it down the road and leave it alone" like most of my vehicles. A U295 is wide and has less wiggle room in the lane than a car, and has BIG surface areas for wind pressure. However, Keith's statement, "runs on rails" makes me think it could be better. Compared to our first 37' DP, a 1997 SOB of great popularity, the 1997 U295 is a dream to drive! But, because I am a privileged human, I want it to be even better.

I would like to visit some folk near Chicago, but don't plan to go there for an alignment.

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvidere, IL.

Reply #10 – June 06, 2012, 12:31:18 pm

Talking with James Triana he mentioned that it is important that the trailing arm bushings need to be checked first. If there is play then it's pointless aligning the coach. A good shop will know this as air bag suspension is very sensitive to this. Trailing arms locate the "axle" fore and aft. If a tech does not check ALL the suspension and steering components then he is negligent. Fix any wear first. This includes ride height. Barry Beam's excellent site has an article on how to do this.

One thing people overlook when driving large vehicles is the effect of grooving wear that heavy vehicles have on highways. In the right lane, in the rain, you can see water running in lines where your wheels are - this is grooving. This will effect handling if you have any steering component wear issues as the wheels will try to follow the grooves.

If you have a "twitchy" coach it's probable that the toe is off (toe is the measurement between the front wheels). Toe-in means that the measurement at the front of the wheel is less than that at the rear of the wheel. This is what you want.

Attached is a .pdf of the readout from the equipment for my coach's alignment.

My statement that it "runs on rails" is on a good road surface with no wind. There will be some correction if there is a high wind but far less than if the coach is out of alignment. There is a lot of surface area for the wind to act on and that big flat front shears the wind off to one side causing directional instability.

Having the correct tire pressures for the weight carried on each tire will be beneficial. Too higher pressure for carried load will result in less rolling resistance and light steering. This will emphasize any problems.

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #11 – June 06, 2012, 12:31:32 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – June 06, 2012, 12:00:26 pm

Wayne replaced front wheel bearing seals at the same time he aligned it. I expect that would have involved checking and setting the bearings. At <80,000 miles, the parts should have little wear. He replaced the steering gear with a remanufactured unit last December (failed seal on the "difficult" side). All parts should be good.

Handling is OK, but is certainly not "point it down the road and leave it alone" like most of my vehicles. A U295 is wide and has less wiggle room in the lane than a car, and has BIG surface areas for wind pressure. However, Keith's statement, "runs on rails" makes me think it could be better. Compared to our first 37' DP, a 1997 SOB of great popularity, the 1997 U295 is a dream to drive! But, because I am a privileged human, I want it to be even better.

I would like to visit some folk near Chicago, but don't plan to go there for an alignment.

My 97 has an issue with at least one of its ride height valves I think. For long runs at times am counter steered slightly regardless of road surface or wind. Hmmmmmmm

Manually raised one side a bit and then went down the road straight as an arrow.

If the coach does not return to exactly the same ride height due to the valves or leaks in the suspension it won't drive straight.

Tie rod ends do wear which is normally evidenced by tire cupping.

The ride height valve sticking was an interesting one. From down to up it stuck. Past that point by manually raising it then letting it drop down it worked perfect.

Previous owner had corrected the ride height so that was correct.

Some front tires steer better than others. What are you running?

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvidere, IL.

Reply #12 – June 06, 2012, 01:00:03 pm

Tires are Michelin XZA-1 LRG all around. Michelin charts recommend 90 psi front, 80 psi rear for our axle weights. We use those as minimums on cold tires. Tires are usually 90-95 front, 80-85 rear in the morning before moving the coach. Tire wear is minimal and even.

We have Koni FSD dampers that were installed about 17 months ago. Wayne aligned the wheels at the same time. The coach always pulled to the right before he aligned it. The steering is neutral now, but requires more attention than I expect. He changed the steering gear last December.

My expectations are pretty high. Other than our 1994 Jeep, our vehicles track very well with little requirement for correction. I will say that I have been a passenger while Marilyn was driving nicely along I-35 in a construction zone with trucks on each side. It looked like we could reach out the window and touch them. She held her line, and neither one of us was screaming.

That is WAY better than our experience in the DP on the dual-rail chassis. That unit provide many white-knuckle moments. We do like our FT.

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvidere, IL.

Reply #13 – June 06, 2012, 10:00:15 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – June 06, 2012, 01:00:03 pm

Tires are Michelin XZA-1 LRG all around. Michelin charts recommend 90 psi front, 80 psi rear for our axle weights. We use those as minimums on cold tires. Tires are usually 90-95 front, 80-85 rear in the morning before moving the coach. Tire wear is minimal and even.

We have Koni FSD dampers that were installed about 17 months ago. Wayne aligned the wheels at the same time. The coach always pulled to the right before he aligned it. The steering is neutral now, but requires more attention than I expect. He changed the steering gear last December.

My expectations are pretty high. Other than our 1994 Jeep, our vehicles track very well with little requirement for correction. I will say that I have been a passenger while Marilyn was driving nicely along I-35 in a construction zone with trucks on each side. It looked like we could reach out the window and touch them. She held her line, and neither one of us was screaming. That is WAY better than our experience in the DP on the dual-rail chassis. That unit provide many white-knuckle moments. We do like our FT.

Cm and ray both mentioned during the unihome original seminar in late 1987 that they designed the chassis like the euros did their cars. They built the chassis to the Michelin xga-1's you have.

I am at 95 on the rear duals and at 105 on the front with my slightly heavier coach. I am lightly loaded versus a long time user.

I might try a litte more air pressure as michelins have always been a soft sided tire carcass.

Two schools of thought on blowouts. Do you hold the tire rigid to the rim or have the sidewall shred and have the left over steel belts hold the tire straight against the rim while stopping. Hence the knock that the michelins are destroyed in a flat. Done on purpose.

A good test was to run the coach on a large piece of white concrete and run it through a water puddle prior to the concrete patch. Drive a short distance onto the concrete and stop. Get out and go back and examine the wet spots. Are they the same darkness all the way across? Or lighter on the edges? Or the middle? You can laugh but I remembering this working well. Lots of skeptics before none afterwards.

The tires add 10 pounds warm so you are there sometimes. My real fanatics and I ran nitrogen in the tires to get identical tire patterns hot or cold. Takes a few times to get most of the air out. All airplane tires are nitrogen.

My riding herd on the steering wheel was much less with careful ride height and exact tire pressures.

Now a design problem. If you raise and lower the coach does the steering wheel move?

Unwind and rewind? That's the amount of difference between the pittmans arm end point and the suspensions locating arms.

Old chassis coaches were really bad. In a dip the coach went right and as it extended past the normal ride height position it went left and came back straight IF the ride height valve was accurate enough.

Hard to get the steering arm and the suspension exactly the same length and to pivot on the exact same point.

If you look underneath your cach the aha moment will occur. Also on early unihomes and unicoaches the steering box was not out as far as the later models. The pitman arm was at an angle to the suspension. Not parallel. Suspension movement up and down causes the coach to turn slightly.

The old unihomes steering shaft was on a linkage to the box. At an angle. Some drove great Others needed reinforcing or reorientation of the shaft u joints.

My 97's box is outboard as I understand it and the steering column is a straight shot with no u joints.

Amazing the info around if you are interested enough to ask why something does or does not work as well as others.

I bet James is well aware of this. Ask him? May be only the real early ones. Who knows.

My 97 requires very little input. I could put more caster in the front end but it would not turn as well...

Fine line

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Alignment. Good place in Belvidere, IL.

June 04, 2012, 02:09:50 pm

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #1 – June 05, 2012, 06:44:48 pm

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #2 – June 05, 2012, 07:52:17 pm

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #3 – June 05, 2012, 08:30:51 pm

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #4 – June 05, 2012, 08:40:29 pm

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #5 – June 06, 2012, 12:27:32 am

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #6 – June 06, 2012, 09:50:14 am

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #7 – June 06, 2012, 10:24:56 am

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #8 – June 06, 2012, 11:30:00 am

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #9 – June 06, 2012, 12:00:26 pm

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvidere, IL.

Reply #10 – June 06, 2012, 12:31:18 pm

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Reply #11 – June 06, 2012, 12:31:32 pm

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvidere, IL.

Reply #12 – June 06, 2012, 01:00:03 pm

Re: Alignment. Good place in Belvidere, IL.

Reply #13 – June 06, 2012, 10:00:15 pm

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