Question about 50 amp service

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Question about 50 amp service

June 04, 2012, 08:04:24 pm

Can a 50 amp RV plug-in be installed by rewiring and utilizing the existing wiring of a standard 2 plug 110 ac outlet? Are there any problems with utilizing a 30 amp hook up for storage with minimum electrical usage(lights and one a/c)?
Thanks, Mike

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #1 – June 04, 2012, 08:11:16 pm

Oh no! Even if you're the only one that's ever going to use the plug, it's not a good idea. Electrical codes may vary from state to state, but the ratings for the wires for a 50 amp vs 30 amp vs 20 amp are all different. A failure can spell disater property-wise.

Please invest in the correct installation for everyone's safety. What's a life worth? Or even a garage?
Peter

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #2 – June 04, 2012, 08:29:32 pm

Geez, For a proper hookup you will need 6ga wire, 4 cables, meaning one for each side of the 120, a neutral and a ground.
Getting that from your 120 Volt 15 amp outlet AINT GONNA HAPPEN.
Like Peter mentioned, fire and safety need some thought.

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #3 – June 04, 2012, 08:41:48 pm

Quote from: Yetch – June 04, 2012, 08:04:24 pm

Can a 50 amp RV plug-in be installed by rewiring and utilizing the existing wiring of a standard 2 plug 110 ac outlet? Are there any problems with utilizing a 30 amp hook up for storage with minimum electrical usage(lights and one a/c)?

Mike,

Short answer, no. As Peter and Dave M. mentioned, 50 amp requires a lower number/bigger diameter wire gauge. 50 amp service is actually 2 legs each having 50 amp capacity, different phases, then the shared neutral and ground. The wiring of a 15 amp circuit will be woefully undersized - you will need to run new wire and install the right breaker.

Here's a great resource

RV Electric

One can run a 50 amp coach on 30 amp using an approved adapter if you power manage - use just one high-current device at a time (like one A/C OR the water heater on electric OR a coffee maker, etc.). BE SURE it's a 120V 30 amp connection and NOT a 240V 30 amp connection (the latter being common for some electric cooking, clothes dryers, etc.) They are NOT the same service nor receptacle and you will toast your electronics plugging into the wrong one. Again, though, you will need to run new wire from a new, single 120V 30 amp breaker.

Michelle

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #4 – June 04, 2012, 08:43:27 pm

Quote from: Yetch – June 04, 2012, 08:04:24 pm

Can a 50 amp RV plug-in be installed by rewiring and utilizing the existing wiring of a standard 2 plug 110 ac outlet? Are there any problems with utilizing a 30 amp hook up for storage with minimum electrical usage(lights and one a/c)?
Thanks, Mike

Mike,

Two separate questions:

1. No, a common 15 amp 120 VAC outlet can not be "converted" to 50 amp service.

2. But, you can use a 15 male to 30 amp female adapter and a 30 amp male to 50 amp female adapter to allow you to plug your coach into a regular house outlet. That will allow you to keep battery charger on (be sure it is properly programmed and power share/power save activated-- this limits how many amps of 120 VAC can be used to charge the batteries). the single hot in the 15 and 30 amp is tied to both hots on the 50 amp side to allow you to use appliances on both hot legs (of course only up to the 15 amps provided by the house breaker and wiring).

Mine has been plugged in just like that all the time while in storage.

Brett

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #5 – June 04, 2012, 09:31:13 pm

Yea, after I posted the question I did some research and kind of figured out the 50 amp was going to have to be wired separately through my sub-service box in my barn.
I did however find a box that plugs into two 110 ac outlets that has a 30 amp female receptacle. I had used one of these in the past with my Trek without any problems. Do you see any problems with using one of those?

Mike

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #6 – June 04, 2012, 10:10:37 pm

If you are talkng about an adapter box that has 50a 240v receptical with two pig tails, 1 30a 120v and the other 15A 120V. They will not work if the the power box you plug into has a gfi plug for the 110v since it should trip the gfi if the gfi is not bad or was miss wired. A lot of the old gfi when they would fail they would keep on working. A number of years ago they were made so if they failed they would stop working.

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #7 – June 04, 2012, 10:39:06 pm

Quote from: Yetch – June 04, 2012, 09:31:13 pm

...
I did however find a box that plugs into two 110 ac outlets that has a 30 amp female receptacle. I had used one of these in the past with my Trek without any problems. Do you see any problems with using one of those?

Mike

Get some help from an electrician. Make sure the electrician understands RV wiring. The link Michelle supplied is a good resource. If the adapter or outlet is not wired properly for RV use, it could fry your wiring or appliances.

Yes, you can run a few things in your coach from a regular household outlet if you have a PROPER ADAPTER. You will be very limited in what you can operate. You can operate more stuff from a PROPERLY WIRED 30A outlet with a PROPER ADAPTER. You may be able to run one air conditioner. For full use of the systems, and for the safest system, install a proper 50A outlet specifically set up for an RV hookup.

If the wiring is not right, it won't work well and can damage your appliances.

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #8 – June 05, 2012, 03:47:30 pm

When you need a 50 amp pedestal and you don't have one, you start looking for a cheap way to build one.

When you start looking for a cheap way to build one, you start buying the wrong things.

When you buy the wrong things, you can ruin your RV.

When you ruin your RV, your wife may leave you and your dog won't talk to you anymore.

Please don't make your dog not talk to you anymore... get a qualified electrician

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #9 – June 05, 2012, 04:20:45 pm

If this is just for storage or even for use without a/c, just go with an adapter. 15 Amps is more than enough.

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #10 – June 05, 2012, 04:39:34 pm

Steve B, that is a good answer, we both laughed at it. Ruth said it was cute!!
John H

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #11 – June 05, 2012, 05:25:11 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – June 05, 2012, 04:20:45 pm

If this is just for storage or even for use without a/c, just go with an adapter. 15 Amps is more than enough.

Yup, been there, done that. No problems.

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #12 – June 05, 2012, 05:32:55 pm

Actually, my semi-permanent setup is a circuit powered through a 20A breaker, ending at a 20A rated twist-lock receptacle (no more suprise unpluggings). My extension cord is also rated at 20+ A, with a 30A RV receptacle at the RV end. Then a 30A-50A adapter to the RV cord. This gets me by very nicely. I can evel run one a/c unit as long as the electric to the water heater is turned off and the charger is dialed back.

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #13 – June 05, 2012, 06:11:56 pm

If you are plugged in to 15A or 20A service and plan to use air conditioners, furnaces, etc. then you would be well advised to keep your connection cord as short as possible; preferably just as long as needed and no longer. If the cord is longer than you need do not coil it up like you would a rope so it lays one layer on top of another. This will amplify any heat generated by the resistance of the cord and you could start a fire.

Craig

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #14 – June 05, 2012, 06:59:42 pm

Well I sure wish I had been able to read a thread like this last week. I had stopped at the window tint shop, and we discussed powering up the coach and having AC for the guys working inside. We looked and found a old compressor plug, and so someone tripped breakers and I installed a spare 30 amp RV plug. Tested and found, 120, 120 and 240 across the top, and did not realize what that meant. Sure do now after reading the posted link about RV wall plug wiring. I had assumed 30 amp should look like 50 amp. Well about a nano second after plugging in my 30 amp wall cord plugged into a 30 to 50 coach cord, I head really bad things inside the coach.

I kicked the coach breaker on the converter, one nice IOTA 75 amp unit. Dead, in a flash! I have called the tint company, and now sent them a link to the correct wiring that needs to be done. I am still hopeful that the converter is the only thing I killed last week.

Now just why is the converter installed 7' inside the deadend storage bay? And I now have ridden the drawer storage slide in and out too many times. And why would the new 120 volt cord have one vertical and one horizontal spade? I had to borrow one of the many duplex outlets in the shop to install on the back side of the step wall. What fun working 7' in, with hands above your head, laying on a shoulder, at just the wrong focal length for glasses or no glasses.

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #15 – June 05, 2012, 07:21:54 pm

Dave, did your microwave bite the dust with that spike, also?

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #16 – June 05, 2012, 07:26:12 pm

Quote from: Dave and Dolly Cobb – June 05, 2012, 06:59:42 pm

And why would the new 120 volt cord have one vertical and one horizontal spade?

20 amp/120V plugs have one vertical, one horizontal, and the ground pin. That's to keep you from plugging a 20 amp appliance into a 15 amp circuit.

-M

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #17 – June 05, 2012, 07:38:33 pm

Ernie,

The mircowave clock works, but we have not tried it to heat anything, have my fingers crossed.

M,

Thanks for that info. I was amazed to see the 20 amp plug end on my new converter as I got to the end of the 7' dead end in the bay. Went to plan B, and bought a set of plugs and made an 8" extension cord. Then found out I had a 30 amp female 240 end on in my hand, where the horizontal and vertical spades are reversed sides, and in strong light I could read the small print. Went to plan C and was going to swap converter cords, but the new unit was pop riveted together, not screwed like the IOTA case. Moved to plan D and went back and tried to get the correct cord end, but not in stock in the country store. Plan E was to install a duplex from the shop wall plugs. Bought a rough in box, like the half dozen, 40 miles away at home, and installed it on the step wall, with a new cover, since the Foretravel plug is a complete unit, making it's own finished box.

Guess I need to try everything 120 tomorrow and make a list of what I killed. And I have lots of new knowledge, and printed info from the great link posted by you.

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #18 – June 05, 2012, 07:47:27 pm

This is the unit I have in mind. Any comments?

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #19 – June 05, 2012, 07:52:17 pm

Quote from: Steve & Kathy B – June 05, 2012, 03:47:30 pm

When you need a 50 amp pedestal and you don't have one, you start looking for a cheap way to build one.

When you start looking for a cheap way to build one, you start buying the wrong things.

When you buy the wrong things, you can ruin your RV.

When you ruin your RV, your wife may leave you and your dog won't talk to you anymore.

Please don't make your dog not talk to you anymore... get a qualified electrician

Okay Steve...You're watching too much TV...:-)

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #20 – June 05, 2012, 10:20:05 pm

Quote from: Yetch – June 05, 2012, 07:47:27 pm

This is the unit I have in mind. Any comments?

What I see will put an outlet configured for 30 amps on a 15 amp circuit if the duplex outlets are wired as most are. You can plug in, but it is a 15 amp supply and should have a 15 amp breaker on the circuit. If the 15 amp outlets happen to be wired separately (not likely) good or bad things can happen.

The adapter will probably supply 15 amps at 120 VAC to your coach if you have a proper adapter to get from the 30 amp outlet to the 50 amp plug. Get some help from someone who can measure the circuits and verify that what you plan to do is safe and effective for the purpose.

As stated before, "Please don't make your dog to stop talking to you."

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #21 – June 06, 2012, 07:16:18 am

Quote from: Peter & Beth – June 05, 2012, 07:52:17 pm

Okay Steve...You're watching too much TV...:-)

Yep! hehehe

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #22 – June 06, 2012, 09:39:58 am

Quote from: Steve & Michelle – June 05, 2012, 07:26:12 pm

20 amp/120V plugs have one vertical, one horizontal, and the ground pin. That's to keep you from plugging a 20 amp appliance into a 15 amp circuit.

-M

Michelle,
What you have descripted is a 20 amp, 240 volt plug. The 15 amp and 20 amp 120 volt plug are indentical. Most 120 volt circuits are wired with 12 awg wire suitable for 20 amps since this is required in kitchen and other locations where there are heavy appliance loads.
Jerry

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #23 – June 06, 2012, 09:47:49 am

Since I'm in the process of wiring the shop/apartment I have become familiar with the "20A" receptacles which I've used everywhere I need an AC plug-in. Here is an image of one.

Craig

Re: Question about 50 amp service

Reply #24 – June 06, 2012, 09:54:11 am

Quote from: Yetch – June 05, 2012, 07:47:27 pm

This is the unit I have in mind. Any comments?

Yetch,
what you have is an adapter for a 30 amp plug into a 15 or 20 amp duplex 120 volt receptable. It is suitable for storage load but very little more than that. 98% of the time this would be safe, but duplex receplables can be made dead ends for two different circuits simply by removing the tab between the load (hot) terminals. If this is the case, your adapter will short and trip both circuit breakers.
Jerry

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