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Topic: Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummins Engine info (Read 1615 times) previous topic - next topic

Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummins Engine info

Saw a recent post where Brett had listed which Bio Diesel is OK for which Cummins Engines.

To reiterate:

All engines: B5 is OK.  Newer Engines: B20 is OK for the following: ISX, ISM, ISL, ISC and ISB engines certified to EPA '02 and later emissions standards, ISL, ISC and ISB engines certified to Euro 3.

A blend often found is B11.  Odd blend because tax breaks are available for sellers of over "10% blends"

Therefore B5 may be hard to find in some places

Biodiesel has a lower energy value than straight #2 diesel.  The more "Bio" the less MPG.

Look at the pump for a sticker.  May say up to XX% biodiesel.

What's the problem?  Lift pump failures, Hose failures, tank cleaning (blocked filters), injector fouling, component incompatibility with resulting leaks and/or system deposits.

Here is a link to all you will ever need to know about Biodiesel and a lot you won't.  Page 21 starts with how mixes are rated IE: B5, B20

http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-performace_usage/service-technician%27s-guide-to-diesel-fuel.pdf?sfvrsn=4

Cummings FAQ page on this topic

Cummins Engines - Technical Papers & Links - Biodiesel FAQ

With the higher yearly mileage units it's more of a problem.  With units stored for long periods there is a storage problem over 3 months.

Now I have everyone stirred up and worried I will exit gracefully...

Keith
Keith, Joyce & Smokey the Australian Cattle Dog
1995 U320 SE Extreme 40' WTBI Build # 4780, with a Honda CR-V hopefully still following behind.
Motorcade # 17030
FMCA # F422159

Re: Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummings Engine info

Reply #1 –
For what it is worth I will say this........Biodiesel is over analyzed. Let's face it. The diesel engine was not invented to run on diesel fuel. It was peanut oil. I ran a sailboat for years on bio. Let me tell you about the grade of biodiesel I used. NOT a mixture of grease and diesel fuel. Oh no. We got 3 different sized filters and took regular french fry oil and poured it from a greasy containter through the filters and right into the tank. The engine ran smoother and quieter with no side effects. A slight french fry odor which usually made me hungry but that's another story.

As for biodiesel, from my experiences I would run it exclusively but it is hard to find now for me as I spend most of my time in Mexico and have no facilities for filtering.

Like I said.........for what it is worth.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummings Engine info

Reply #2 –
An excellent article with lots to be digested. The problem I have with the bio-diesel section lies in only soybean oil being used in the comparison. Diesel fuel may be made from waste poultry products, algae, peanut oil, coconut oil, etc, etc. With new catalysts, coal may be a source for the production of low emissions diesel fuel.

A month ago, the World Health Organization released the results of it's long term study. They have changed the classification of diesel exhaust from a probable carcinogen to known carcinogen. While this study was partly done in third world countries without benefits of the latest in diesel technology, the fact still remains that there are almost 300 different compounds found in diesel exhaust. Most of these compounds are in the particulates that we see and breath in the black exhaust smoke. They estimate that vocational exposure like experienced by a truck driver may increase the incidence of lung cancer by up to 7 times.

The blending of bio-diesel drastically reduces particulates and hydrocarbons but is responsible for some increase in oxides of nitrogen. With new catalytic converters, overall emissions are very low.

The 8.9% loss in BTUs per gallon vs. #2 diesel is less than 2% in B20, not enough to have much effect on mileage. And this is only with the soybean oil used as an example.

Yes, there are lots of factors and pitfalls to be avoided in going to bio-diesel but the compression ignition engine invented by Dr. Diesel is very versatile in the fuel it is happy to burn. We just have to avoid the environmental and economic problems that ethanol brought to gasoline.

My too sense :D

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummings Engine info

Reply #3 –
As a side note from use of bio-diesel, we have run it in some of our equipment and 18 wheeler haul trucks one in particular is a 1990 and found that the bio-diesel is "slipperier" than pump diesel and it loosened the sediment slime layer in older diesels that accumulates in their tanks and lines. So we had to change filters faster in the first couple of tanks run through.
I'm not sure of the bio number we ran but most of it was from palms and coconuts.
As far as performance we didn't notice any difference.
Kerrybob
1995 U295
1997 F250 4dr

Re: Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummins Engine info

Reply #4 –
I have run B5 in my old Mercedes 300D, and as expected, nothing noticable changed.  The main issues with running vegetable oil and biodiesel in older diesel engines are that older rubber fuel lines can dissolve and dirt in the fuel tank can become dislodged, necessitating more frequent fuel filter changes.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummins Engine info

Reply #5 –
So I guess when you stop at the drive in at a McDonalds for instance we should be saying "I'll have 5 gallons of french fry oil and my partner will have a Big Mac?? ^.^d
John H
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummins Engine info

Reply #6 –
Quote from: John Haygarth –
So I guess when you stop at the drive in at a McDonalds for instance we should be saying "I'll have 5 gallons of french fry oil and my partner will have a Big Mac?? ^.^d
John H

Just don't use the drive-through....  :thumbsup:

Craig :)
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummins Engine info

Reply #7 –
If can you find a McDonalds that will give you the grease.........gimme the address!!
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummins Engine info

Reply #8 –
I'm watching this thread with great interest.  Having only had experience with diesel in the busses that I drove and having a background in petroleum chemitry, I'm at a loss in trying to see the ecnomics of using plants to make a "diesel" fuel.  Does anyone have any hard numbers on combustion products and the different blends and I would also like to see the btu numbers as well.  My training tells me the more carbon atoms the higher number of btus that are generated.  I'm old school dating back to the fifites with the chemistry and the bus driving after I retired in 95.  I'm not so old that I won't listen to other view points however, I believe Willie Nelson uses reclaimed fryer oil in his road bus.

Re: Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummins Engine info

Reply #9 –
Per Caterpillar documentation, Bio-diesel has 5-7% less BTU's per gallon.

Brett
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020