Newbie boondocker questions

Topic: Newbie boondocker questions (Read 4195 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #25 – August 20, 2012, 09:50:58 pm

Dood, you need a honda 2k. Runs 8 hrs on 1 gal of gas if your gunna boondock frequently.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #26 – August 20, 2012, 10:36:18 pm

Quote from: RRadio – August 20, 2012, 09:23:03 pm

... and that should get rid of every 120V AC item in the whole rig shouldn't it? I'll be inverterless...

FWIW, I suggest that you get a good charger and charge controller. If the inverter works, leave it. Turn it on when you need it. Turn it off when you don't need it.

I have had my coach for two years. I have a good charge controller. It shows when the house batteries are charged. It shows how much the power has been extracted from the batteries since they were charged. I could not discern that information from voltages alone. I could only guess.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #27 – August 21, 2012, 08:46:38 am

I just don't like inverters. I'm a data center engineer by trade and inverters are annoying and inefficient. I never could understand why they don't make servers that run on DC instead of AC. In a data center we bring in 12,470 volt AC, then cut it down to 480 volt AC, then it goes through a rectifier to make DC to charge huge rooms full of lead acid batteries. During a utility power failure these batteries would then power big inverters that would make AC power to send into the data center where the servers would then convert it back to DC. Each time we converted the power back and forth through an inverter or rectifier to convert to / from AC / DC we lost a bunch of power to heat, which then had to be removed by the chillers. I say just make all the equipment DC and get rid of the inverters, but whatever, smart people were paid a lot of money to design these places... This is why I bought a two stroke Detroit Diesel by the way. We had them at every data center and they're the best engines ever built. They'll run even without any electricity, which is kind of a no brainer if you're only running them during a power failure. They'll also run if one of the fuel pumps or injectors fails, and they're capable of priming themselves and restarting if they suck air into the fuel line like if the day tank runs dry or a fuel line breaks or somebody shuts the valve or something... Hey this stuff happens and the data center I was working in was for a very large bank that supposedly would lose billions of dollars in credit card revenue if it went down even for a minute. We also had Cummins and Caterpillars too and none of the four stroke diesels are capable of running without electricity, with a failed fuel pump, or priming and restarting after sucking air into the fuel line... Anyway, I don't like inverters. I think they're a total waste of energy and source of endless annoyance to people in my career field... but I'm biased! ha... They're probably okay in a non critical environment like a motor home.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #28 – August 21, 2012, 10:23:45 am

RRadio,

Regards your question about how long it takes to charge the batteries, of course depends on how much they were discharged. I think you have the Freedom inverter/charger. It's always in the charge mode when generator or shore power is available. A simple way to tell when the batteries are charged is to check the voltage on the control panel. When it's charging the voltage will be at least 14. (MY panel has lights for each 1/2 volt so if 14 or 14.5 is lit, I know it is charging.) Amps drop off during the charge. Once the batteries are fully charged the charger stops charging and reverts to a float condition. When it does this the voltage drops to 13.5 or 13 volts. At this point you might as well turn off the generator if it is only being used to charge batteries as charging has stopped. Like others have said the less you discharge the batteries the longer they will last. It doesn't make since to become paranoid about it and not use the batteries though. A 25% discharge with an occasional 50% discharge should yield a reasonable battery life. As a battery ages it in effect becomes smaller in amp/hr capacity.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #29 – August 22, 2012, 01:21:34 pm

We have a 93, U300 so I presume it is very similar to your coach. It has two 8D sized gel batteries vintage 2004 for the house. Our ice maker is a Uline independent ice maker, not part of the refrigerator. We never run the ice maker for more than an hour or so on the inverter. When traveling, we turn it off.

Here are some basic guidelines we have developed.

1. Never trust the Javelina monitoring system for House Voltage. It is seldom accurate. Our original inverter was replaced by a Xantrex 3000. It provides digital monitoring.
2. Never let the batteries get below 12.2 Volts with no load on the system. We try to maintain a minimum of 12.4V most of the time. With the ice maker, the DVR, TV's and the inverter off, we can go two or three days without running the generator. It then takes three to five hours of running the generator to get back to 12.7 Volts. We try to hook up to 110V power once a week to get a full, float charge on the batteries, including the engine batteries via the boost switch.
3. We can leave the ice make off for over 12 hours with very little melting taking place if we keep the door shut. If it will be off more than 12 hours, we empty it, defrost it by laying a "ShamWow" absorbent cloth in on the floor of the ice maker and letting it drain into a dish pan set in front of the ice maker. Once defrosted, let it air dry for several hours, place a box of baking soda inside ant close the door. Very simple.

You did not say whether your batteries are flooded lead acid or Gel or AGM. If your inverter/charger is putting out 14.5 volts to a Gel battery, it needs to be adjusted down or you can shorten the life of the battery. If the inverter is the original and you don't wish to use an inverter, I would install a "Smart Charger/Converter" to enhance the life of the batteries. IMHO

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #30 – August 22, 2012, 04:51:36 pm

Paul, I probably shouldn't discuss that stuff here, sorry.

Kent, I have three lead acid batteries, two for the house and one to crank the engine and they were all new February of this year.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #31 – August 22, 2012, 07:10:25 pm

I used to have two batteries in my old U270. It barely made it thru the night with my CPAP and some lights and the ICemaker off. If I left the ice maker on it would auto start about 4 am. I added two other gell 8Ds and I could make it thru the night with the icemaker . IF it was really cold I would start the genny anyway and run it. The fan motors would take it down as well the drain on the batteries from the cold. I had propane not Aquahot for that..Still with 4 batteries I could last the whole night. I would start the generator to recharge them though even if I was driving.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #32 – August 22, 2012, 07:42:30 pm

Do I have autostart on my 1991 U300 with an Onan 3 cylinder liquid cooled diesel?... if so how does it work?

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #33 – August 22, 2012, 08:29:12 pm

Do I understand you to say that you a total of 4 8D Gel batteries in a U270? Were they all in the diesel compartment on the street side? I was thinking that it might weigh that corner down to have 4 batteries there(about 620lbs. worth). I was thinking I could add 1 more to the two already there, but it would be great to have 4 (or maybe wait until the lithium iron batteries come down to earth...).
Don

Quote from: John S – August 22, 2012, 07:10:25 pm

I used to have two batteries in my old U270. It barely made it thru the night with my CPAP and some lights and the ICemaker off. If I left the ice maker on it would auto start about 4 am. I added two other gell 8Ds and I could make it thru the night with the icemaker . IF it was really cold I would start the genny anyway and run it. The fan motors would take it down as well the drain on the batteries from the cold. I had propane not Aquahot for that..Still with 4 batteries I could last the whole night. I would start the generator to recharge them though even if I was driving.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #34 – August 22, 2012, 08:36:33 pm

I had a new frame welded up and put them right there on the frame inside the coach. It was in the first bay and it was on the drivers side. THe passenger side had the propane and there was enough room to put the extra batter if I rebuilt the frame a bit.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #35 – August 22, 2012, 08:38:14 pm

Oh and we weighed all for corners and it was not an issue at all, In fact I just moved a couple things to the other side of the coach and that was all that was needed and the front was 100 pounds different side to side as was the rear. Of course I had the ISC not the M11 and only a 150 gallon fuel tank and not the 198 that the U320 had and I was 34 foot so I was pretty light.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #36 – August 23, 2012, 12:07:53 am

Don, my 2000 U295 is most probably the same battery set up as yours and I have 3 AGM 8D with room for 1 more
John h

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #37 – August 23, 2012, 11:34:01 am

Quote from: RRadio – August 22, 2012, 07:42:30 pm

Do I have autostart on my 1991 U300 with an Onan 3 cylinder liquid cooled diesel?... if so how does it work?

I'm pretty sure you don't have autostart unless it was added by a previous owner. It is about a $300 add on and to my knowledge was not available in the early 90's.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #38 – August 23, 2012, 11:43:08 am

Thanks John,
You have two battery slide mechanisms then, one above the other? Could you post picture when you get a chance that shows where the upper slide mechanism is supported? I presume that it is independent of the lower mechanism. Is the upper one the same size as the lower? Maybe a picture will suffice to answer all of them!

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #39 – August 23, 2012, 04:29:15 pm

I wish they were slides Don as those batteries are heavy sob's
Here are pics
John h

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #40 – August 23, 2012, 04:34:30 pm

Just be thankful you can reach yours! Ours are tucked behind the AquaHot. You have to remove the panel from the bay next to the AH to reach them! The MK batteries weigh 160lbs!

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #41 – August 23, 2012, 04:52:37 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – August 23, 2012, 04:29:15 pm

I wish they were slides Don as those batteries are heavy sob's
Here are pics
John h

Hmm. Your battery compartment is very similar to the one on our 1997 U295. However, all three of our house batteries are on sliding trays with roller bearings that still work. I am surprised that your newer U295 does not have sliding trays for those heavy batteries.

Quote from: RRadio – August 20, 2012, 11:23:28 am

... so if I have two house batteries and a cranking battery do I have what you guys are calling a three battery system or a two battery system?

We have three 8D AGM batteries for the house and two Group 24 (I think) AGM batteries as chassis batteries. I would call it a three battery house system and two battery chassis/starting system.

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #42 – August 23, 2012, 04:58:41 pm

Thanks for the pictures John! I can see that the batteries are supported by the partitions and that is what I was thinking I would do as well. It will help distribute the weight over a larger area than if they were supported from underneath.

Our U270 just has the 2 8D batteries... Thank god they are on a slide because without the bus style doors, I can't imagine getting close enough to to get them out by myself. With the slide, I was able to put a sturdy table level with the battery tray and kind of lift and slide it out on to the table. From there I was able to reverse deadlift it onto the ground. Without the slide, no way I could have done that. I will definely have to add a slide for more batteries because it would be even harder to acces the upper ones due to the door proximity.

Quote from: John Haygarth – August 23, 2012, 04:29:15 pm

I wish they were slides Don as those batteries are heavy sob's
Here are pics
John h

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #43 – August 23, 2012, 06:29:06 pm

These weigh 160lbs too but I did manage to get them in--just tough on the old back.
I also have 2 agm start batteries as most. I thought about building 2 slides but figured that as they never have to come out to check water I will only be removing them once in whatever lifetime they (or I) have so no big deal. There are many other things to think about changing !!!!
John H

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #44 – August 24, 2012, 12:21:23 am

Hi John H,
When visiting Mexico are most product cheaper? I hear drugs, dental, and oil, are lower than USA. What about those Lifeline Batteries? Where did you find them?
Thanks,
Raymond

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #45 – August 25, 2012, 04:58:56 pm

I spent the night in beautiful Acadia National Park on the coast of Maine last night boondocking with no electricity. I didn't feel like cleaning out the ice machine just for one night without power so I let it run on the inverter all night, kept the door closed, and ran only the water pump and a little bit of lighting briefly. When the system was plugged in at my campsite with power in Camden Maine it showed 13.7 V on the screen, when I shut the engine off in Acadia at 1500 hours it showed 13.2 V, and before I started the engine the following morning at 1000 hours it showed 12.3 V. Nights on the Maine coast are cool even in August. I didn't have any problems. I won't be doing that again for a while though. It was just a one night thing. After this week I'll be spending at least a month boondocking with no power. I'm sure the system will do better without the inverter / ice machine running. Now I just need to experiment with how long to run the generator each day to charge the batteries. Thanks for your help you guys

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #46 – August 25, 2012, 06:48:04 pm

Raymond J, not everything is cheaper in mexico, but a lot is. Plus the variety of things is getting much better, but in USA you can find most things. It takes a few visits to realise what to buy and what not too!!
I got my Batteries at AMSOLAR in Springfield Ore as at the time they were the best price within a day drive of home. $500 ea compared to $800 in Canada on the west Coast. They have gone up a bit now I hear.
John H

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #47 – August 25, 2012, 11:11:15 pm

RRadio: I don't believe that you have mentioned the size (i.e. watts) of your inverter. In my '92 U-280, it is just a 1500W Taytronics (not made any longer). Did you run your U-line overnight with one about that size or was it larger?

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #48 – August 26, 2012, 09:39:21 am

The control panel says it's a Taytronics Model RP2L if that means anything to you?

Re: Newbie boondocker questions

Reply #49 – August 27, 2012, 06:30:49 am

RRadio, when we boondock, we can generally go 2-3 days without a full battery charge. When using anything with a large current draw (coffee pot, microwave, hair dryer, ice maker etc) simply run your generator instead of the inverter, and keep a handle on the lights. Usually a couple of hours in the morning takes care of the heavy draw needs as well as brings the batterys back up to full charge. You should not let your batterys get below 12.1V (50%)discharge as it will shorten the life. My Lifeline house batterys are 6 years old and doing fine.

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