Foretravel's Business Model

Topic: Foretravel's Business Model (Read 2595 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #25 – August 23, 2012, 02:44:05 pm

Michelle hit the nail on the head. New FT's are custom coaches, they are not production line coaches. FOT builds a few specs to try things out but for the most part, each coach is built for someone, namely around the IH-45's. I've been in several IH-45's in the past year while visiting FOT. Most of these were custom for a specific customer. Some are flashy, but the ones I've been in have been very modest and not flashy at all.

Yes technology keeps them expensive and there will be issues with them as there is more and more technology added, but that is what the market is asking for.

Greg has a great handle on how many coaches need to be produced each year to be profitable. Does Newell have an entry level coach? Does Marathon or Liberty?

What you all need to understand is that Foretravel has moved out from the masses and into the true luxury market. They do not need to build an entry level coach. Those would be used coaches.

I also suspect you will see the Nimbus line go away and FOT will end up with the Phenix and the IH-45. But that's just my thoughts.

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #26 – August 23, 2012, 03:10:47 pm

Hey SteveB2, Ben and I along with Don and Nancy Sprouse hosted the May Foretravel rally at Mayberry campground. It is good to know that our coaches do make a positive impression on our fellow campers. Good Luck with your Foretravel shopping and when you find one, be sure to join the Motorcade club and come to our rallys. We have a great time and you learn so much about your coaches.

Bonnie Harris
1999 U320 40' with slide

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #27 – August 23, 2012, 03:58:51 pm

Glad to see that some of my opinions are actually in line with others. Talking of an east coast outlet, how about a NW Canda one?? Were we live (and Greg in Peachland too) must be the highest ownership per capita of anywere. I will bet that 1 in 5 people own an RV and boats not far behind. Newmar in town is selling all of their models in large numbers (and 2 nd hands too) and FOT can easily out show those models for quality as we all know. There is/was a FT outlet in Spokane but most new owners buy local so that they never know what a Foretravel is, but if I drive to town or whatever I can gaurantee I will have a few guys wanting to know all about it when I come out a store.
I personally believe if FOT had a rep in this valley, many would sell. We are the holiday/camping place in BC with beatifull lakes/mtns and weather, a perfect fit!! There are 3 main rv parks here with must be around 500 spaces and probably not more than a dozen spaces vacant, year in year out.If I had the money I would buy every used one for sale in the USA and bring them here to market. They would be gone in an instant and FT are one of the few manufactures that Canadian Govt allow in every model with no problem. You cannot do that with a Prevost etc.
Maybe I should talk to Lyle???
John H ( a happy FT owner)

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #28 – August 23, 2012, 05:32:03 pm

So you're the one's to blame!

Quote from: Ben and Bonnie – August 23, 2012, 03:10:47 pm

Hey SteveB2, Ben and I along with Don and Nancy Sprouse hosted the May Foretravel rally at Mayberry campground. It is good to know that our coaches do make a positive impression on our fellow campers. Good Luck with your Foretravel shopping and when you find one, be sure to join the Motorcade club and come to our rallys. We have a great time and you learn so much about your coaches.

Bonnie Harris
1999 U320 40' with slide

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #29 – August 23, 2012, 06:02:02 pm

FWIW, I called Mark today for help on a leveling issue. What he described was not what I had. I told him that my 95 was an antique and his comeback was that everything before 95 was antique. I am glad they still support us OLDER owners cause we would be in a world of hurt without it < and the support of this forum.
Gary B

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #30 – August 23, 2012, 07:31:42 pm

Yes, I think there is room for a custom top end coach. I also think there might be room for a 270 style coach or a 320 style coach with two floor plans and the same engine but not the electronics. I think they did that with the 38 footer two slide coaches and I wonder how those sold. Maybe I am all wet but I think that FT is leaving a lot of sales on the table. They have no presence any longer outside of TX and that has to hurt them a bunch.

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #31 – August 23, 2012, 07:53:58 pm

Today with my regulator problem I could get little help from Foretravel. Did talk to Mark and he tried to help but no resolution of the problem. Always put on hold with leave a message and we will call you back including the Parts Dept.. No call backs got all the info from MOT as they are there and will talk to you and give you advice. Guess where my next service will go. DAN

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #32 – August 23, 2012, 09:23:06 pm

Ever think just maybe some of us need to rethink what it is that we really want in a RV, or step up to a coach, some folks will only be happy in a full bus conversion, and some will be happy in a nice Foretravel, and some in a Winnebago or what ever.
Of course some will never be happy with anything.
Me, I feel Foretravel is savy enough to have a clue as to what will meet the market they are going after. Clearly they are not looking at taking over the Winnebago market. I am not in a rush to change their model nor bash them, I can wait to see what happens, clearly some of us will be wrong and some will be right, until then I am going to relax.

Dave M

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #33 – August 23, 2012, 09:43:53 pm

Quote from: Dave M – August 23, 2012, 09:23:06 pm

I feel Foretravel is savvy enough to have a clue as to what will meet the market they are going after.

And perhaps something to consider, rather than change a working business model, there appears to be evidence from the forum that another, untapped market exists which might allow expansion beyond the current model. There are clearly customers for custom coaches; is there another business opportunity which could be grown in building a "classic", not-so-custom FT? It sounds like there could be a second target market if the numbers work.

Michelle

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #34 – August 24, 2012, 09:47:39 am

Dave, you are right about not always being happy but if I can see that an Essex which is inferior to the FT is selling 1000 Units at over 700K then there is a market that FT is missing. The Nimbus is in that price range yet they are not selling 1000 coaches across all their units.

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #35 – August 24, 2012, 10:19:08 am

Dealers and distribution, vs. virtually none. Coaches need to be "out in public eye" to get those volumes.

$700,000,000 in annual sales of these coaches? Haven't looked at any reference material, seems high, but that is what my calculator says 1000 coaches at $700,000 comes up to

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #36 – August 24, 2012, 11:15:31 am

Newmar is privately held so annual sales figures are not available. I suspect $700,000,000 in annual revenue might be a bit overstated!

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #37 – August 24, 2012, 11:31:29 am

The manufacturer (Newmar) does not get to see all the $700,000. There are other marketing/distribution/dealer costs involved to sell that many units. Besides, Newmar also makes high end fifth wheels as well as other gas and diesel motorhomes. The top line is likely much greater that $700 million in total.
Peter

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #38 – August 24, 2012, 11:49:20 am

I was talking total sales of one unit sine they started making it. It came out about the same time the Nimbus and Phenix came out. It went thru the same market and it's parent company is still in business. I am saying if Newmar can sell 1000 units of one type why can't Foretravel. The used to sell over 300 units a year and that is about what Newmar is doing with there Essex. It is and has been the same price as the Nimbus. I remember FT had five or six units built and ready to go. One rally I went to, they sold five new ones. Born free had a rally and sold over fifty units in a weekend. They need to look at what they are doing and adjust something is my point.

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #39 – August 24, 2012, 11:57:00 am

Quote from: John S – August 24, 2012, 11:49:20 am

I was talking total sales of one unit sine they started making it. It came out about the same time the Nimbus and Phenix came out. It went thru the same market and it's parent company is still in business. I am saying if Newmar can sell 1000 units of one type why can't Foretravel. The used to sell over 300 units a year and that is about what Newmar is doing with there Essex. It is and has been the same price as the Nimbus. I remember FT had five or six units built and ready to go. One rally I went to, they sold five new ones. Born free had a rally and sold over fifty units in a weekend. They need to look at what they are doing and adjust something is my point.

Point taken. And you're right. Maybe the management won't pull the trigger due to economic pessimism?

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #40 – August 24, 2012, 12:47:18 pm

A couple of points.

We had never heard of a Foretravel when we started looking for a class A. It was a chance meeting with the "Two Hams in a Can" (Jeff & Suzanne) that introduced us to them. Since buying our Foretravel we have shown it to several people all of whom have been very impressed, even the hard bitten types at dealerships! Ergo Foretravel has a market out there that does not know about them. Advertise in the right places guys!

Have a network of dealers with good service departments. This might be the hardest one to do.

I have called the factory for advise and parts a couple of times and James and the parts people have always been excellent.

Make a low tech coach that is still Foretravel quality and advertise it. If you want people to move up they have to start somewhere and not everyone will buy a used coach.

The fact that besides the factory there is such an industry built around their products in Nacadoches is quite striking. MOT, Extreme, Encore and more.

Keith

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #41 – August 24, 2012, 01:00:27 pm

I think FT knows there target market, and as much as we all talk about a different market,ie the entry level market, I suspect the numbers are just not profitable. FT's target market are the folks who are either the Newell or provost buyers that do not want to spend $1.8 to over $2 mill for a coach. The IH45 is every bit equal to a Newell and a very close second to a provost conversion at a lower cost and totally custom.

I think Greg has this market figured out. He can make more profit producing lesser number of coaches for more money than building on volume and lesser quality.

A Foretravel and a Newmar do not compete. A FT is a much more higher end coach

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #42 – August 24, 2012, 01:37:25 pm

Had a good chit chat with Lyle Reed , and mentioned about the hints of Foretravel being for sale . His reply "Is not , has not and have no plans to do so . " "this is all news to me ". So just maybe ,they might be able to make it without food stamps or a brain transplant .WOW ---------- Brad Metzger

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #43 – August 24, 2012, 05:19:11 pm

That is great news then. I am happy it is not for sale but I doubt they would tell us if it was. I still think if Newmar can sell 1000 units over 700K than FT can sell the same number or more. They need their factory stores and participation in the marketplace. They pulled way back during the recession. They also said they would do the NEwell model. Well Newell has two sales centers and just added David Robinson as well. So, they are a bit behind the curve I would think. IT is a market out there that has people and there are buyers who just do not know FT and the quality and they need to tap it. You can not grow selling 30 coaches or so a year. Your remodel business will carry you only so far. As the number of units gets less and less. They approached the CC guys in TX but that seems to have gone nowhere and in fact they held a rally out of state when FT was going to attend. Whether that was bad blood or poor planing on CC peoples part I have no idea. They talked about expanding their market for buyers by approaching CC Texas group. I think they should expand their market across the US. THe economy is due another pullback and oil is up again. We will see 5 and 6 buck fuel again and that will hurt the Large segment again. Look at Monoco they retooled and are producing the Vesta a 32 foot lighter unit that gets good fuel milage and is nicely built. Not that FT should go that way but they might have a few Nimbus and Phenix coaches around the country for sale. They are picking up that dealer in Dallas area but the TN location was one of their most profitable ones. Thousands of people heading to the Smokies passed it every time. I knwo of a few friends who went in for service adn bought a new coach as it was sitting there. I think there is still a market for a non custom simple coach.

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #44 – August 24, 2012, 05:33:03 pm

We are not going to solve this or even all agree. It is FT decision and this all came about from looking at new coaches and seeing with my own eyes the competition. If an inferior unit can sell 1000 units and make a profit then I figure that they should look at something. I know that it takes ust about as much work and time to do a Nimbus as a IH. The IH is an issue out east with low bridges more common then the rest of the country. I saw on on the way to lancaster on the skyline drive etc. I want FT to grow and survive. I wanted to bring to light my observations looking at new newells and Essexs and IHs. Newell is custom as it Liberty. The bus crowd will always want a bus for other reasons than price that is why a new Liberty is 2.5 million. They have 2 million miles chassis and that could be overkill for the avg MH buyer too.

Newell is their closest competition and they have a different look inside and a few other bells and whistles but are closer in price than many think. I figure FT is doing what they have to do but maybe thinking outside the box might be interesting. too. Oh well, we will not solve it here and we do not own the company. it has been a very interesting discussion though.

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #45 – August 24, 2012, 06:36:23 pm

Quote from: John S – August 24, 2012, 05:19:11 pm

They are picking up that dealer in Dallas area

That's one I don't understand. Not the idea of having a dealer in the Dallas area but the particular one they chose. We live in the DFW area and have never heard of that outfit.

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #46 – August 24, 2012, 06:47:02 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – August 24, 2012, 11:31:29 am

Besides, Newmar also makes high end fifth wheels as well

Not according to their website. They have exited the towable business The Future of Newmar Towable Products

Quote from: Keith and Joyce – August 24, 2012, 12:47:18 pm

Have a network of dealers with good service departments. This might be the hardest one to do.

That is definitely an issue - our (2nd hand knowledge) experience with non-FT dealers (meaning those that sell new coaches) is that service is a distant second to selling new coaches. We have several friends who have Tiffin products who book appointments at the factory in Red Bay, AL up to 11 months in advance because they won't let their selling dealers touch their coach. And one of those who took theirs in to the selling dealer for warranty service ended up in Red Bay to have the dealer's work "repaired".

We are glad to have the skilled techs at FOT and MOT for service. It would be nice to have the same quality outside of Texas.

-M

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #47 – August 24, 2012, 09:12:27 pm

FT used to have skilled service outside of TX. IN fact that might be the way to increase sales. Say we built it and we will service it for you. There is a service center within a days drive...

Re: Foretravel needs to rethink there business model

Reply #48 – August 24, 2012, 11:02:20 pm

A while back I asked the group to suggest other class A brands that I could recommend to a friend that was looking to buy his first coach. Well, he bought a Country Coach and a big factor in that decision was the distance from his home (the NW) to Nac. Time will tell if he made the right decision.

Re: Foretravel's Business Model

Reply #49 – August 25, 2012, 11:10:42 am

FT had a sales and service facility in San Antonio Fl. in the winter time you could not get in there as the people on the East Coast had it booked up, this Factory Store was supposed to be one of the most profitable.

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