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Topic: Delamination? (Read 1057 times) previous topic - next topic

Delamination?

I got this from another list, and wondered about it. I've heard of delamination problems on several other brands, but I don't recall reading about it much here. Is it really as bad a problem as he makes it sound? "I have owned 3 FTs and while we dearly loved each one of them they had one problem in common: delamination. Even my 2000 42' had problems with it on the sidewalls. I was very disappointed that it happened on a 6 year old coach but it did and it was not warranted by FT."

I guess I can understand FT not wanting to cover a six-year-old coach under warranty, but having delamination problems on three successive FT coaches makes me wonder. My first question would be whether what he was seeing really was delamination or something else. I have no way of knowing that.

My second question would be what caused the delamination, if that is what it really is. I'm very much a newbie when it comes to fiberglass, but I've learned a little bit about it from an airplane list (KR-NET) and I've learned that moisture getting under the skin can cause delamination. That would indicate a leak. If all three of his coaches were similar, and I don't know that, AND if all suffered delamination in the same area (and I don't know that, either) that would point to a manufacturing problem. On the other hand, if he had three different coaches and the problems were in different areas, that would indicate a maintenance issue rather than a manufacturing one.

I guess my overall question, then, is this: Is there a delamination problem with Foretravel coaches or not? I fully understand that ANY fiberglass coach COULD suffer from delamination, but from other forums it seems that some brands are much more prone to it than others.

Re: Delamination?

Reply #1 –
You will find that delamination is on the first generation of slides.  Wrong Mastic used but I had mine pulled and repaired.  That is the only issue I know of. Owned three coach and no delamination other than my slides. If there was no bladder it would not be an issue and I lived with it for four year without seeing it.  I would not worry if you got a model with the first gen slide. Not that expensive to fix in the scheme of things. Biggest expense was labor pulling the slide.  Just have it fixed if you have to replace the bladder.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Delamination?

Reply #2 –
Thanks, John. Any coach we buy will not have slides, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Re: Delamination?

Reply #3 –
Delamination is mostly caused by water intrusion rotting the wood the fiberglass is bonded to. It usually found around joints and windows that are leaking water, and appears as a big bubble in the fiberglass. I have not personally seen any older F/T's (pre slide) with any, unless they have had water leaks that have not been repaired. Yes it can be very expensive to have it repaired, the affected area has to be cut out repaired and re glassed. A lot folks look at older coaches and see the ribs in the side walls, especially with the morning dew on it, and mistake it for delamination.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Delamination?

Reply #4 –
Agree, have it in my 2000 4010, not getting worked on any time soon, not spreading.
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Delamination?

Reply #5 –
When we bought our 03 it had a delamination spot under the center marker light on the side of the coach, which was caused by the marker light not properly sealed. We took it to extreme and had Rance repair it and now better than new and I have checked and resealed all other marker lights
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Delamination?

Reply #6 –
Here are some pictures of sidewall delamination that was repaired at Xtreme in Feb this year.
The passenger side delamination Rance thinks was probably caused by poor glue-up at the factory. There was no sign of water leakage on this one. The much larger delamination on the driver's side was actually harder to see except under just the right lighting as the bulge was more pronounced in the smaller delamination. Best guess on the cause of the larger one was either leaking around the washer-dryer vent or moisture from operation of the washer dryer or both. You can see the greenish track of the water as it moved down and out from the area of the vent. The flapper style vent was replaced with a downward facing scoop. Rance said that he had unsuccessfully tried replacing a removed fiberglass piece before, but could not get enough consistent pressure to make it bond properly.

Re: Delamination?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Bob McGee –
Here are some pictures of sidewall delamination that was repaired at Xtreme in Feb this year.
The passenger side delamination Rance thinks was probably caused by poor glue-up at the factory. There was no sign of water leakage on this one. The much larger delamination on the driver's side was actually harder to see except under just the right lighting as the bulge was more pronounced in the smaller delamination. Best guess on the cause of the larger one was either leaking around the washer-dryer vent or moisture from operation of the washer dryer or both. You can see the greenish track of the water as it moved down and out from the area of the vent. The flapper style vent was replaced with a downward facing scoop. Rance said that he had tried unsuccessfully tried replacing a removed fiberglass piece before, but could not get enough consistent pressure to make it bond properly.

In early ftx days a certain amount of delam occurred.  Had a big one once and we figured out how to apply enough pressure to the side wall to let the adhesive do its work.

We parked the coach Parallel to a concrete wall and had a large piece of 1 inch plywood against the coach wall.  Inserted a large inner tube between the coach and concrete wall and added air pressure.  You get the idea.  Two coaches work also with the hydraulic leverers down.  Air leveling might make this more difficult.  Fixed quite a few orange and brown ftx's

Bob
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Delamination?

Reply #8 –
When I tool my 1999 U-270 to Xtreme for decal removal and level one repaint (basically repaint on the decals after taking them off and buffing the coach) there was about 10 square inches of delamination under the dryer vent. they fixed in no time at a price so low that I don't even recall the increment to the bill.

Probably not a bad place to look for delamination if your coach is equipped with a W/D.  Again, having had a few SOB's, the worry about delamination on a Foretravel is trivial compared to the quality and longevity of the coach.  SO many of these topics seem to get thrashed to death on ForeForums, well beyond the good and interesting stage for my taste.

 - Delamination - inspect for it, catch it early, fix and move on - IF you have it at all, which is unlikely
 - Bulkheads - Check the security of the fasteners, address issue, don't give the bulkheads too many salt water baths in snow, don't overflow your fresh water tank when filling or re-route the overflow, and protect fasteners after they have been checked/replaced with a sealant like undercoating.
 - Foretravel business model - the real money and ownership of Foretravel is a couple from Indiana who made significant money in the bio-medical business.  Significant enough that they  own a 126 foot yacht, and fund the #70 Foretravel NASCAR Nationwide Entry, most often driven by Jennifer Joe Cobb.  Of course deep pockets are not nearly enough, good business people don't want to have losing investments.  I suspect a bunch of smart people have downsized the fixed overhead, and matched production to demand.  They moved out of a volume model to a custom model, and expanded their service, remodel, and consignment business to help level the cash flow, absorb some of the overhead, and provide a predicable, annuity cash flow. The new business model should be compared to Liberty in North Chicago, making money on the custom, high end, low volume market with a business model that allows profitable operation at those volumes.  I may be VERY wrong (was happened more than once  :-)), but I think really smart people get up every day in Nacagdoches and work hard to provide the investment return that will keep the business going - albeit at a much lower unit volume than in the past.  Unfortunately for us folks that wait for these fine units to depreciate into whatever our personal affordability range is, there will be far less coaches available going forward to choose from. 


Guess I will have to just keep what I have and fix it up as needed.  Seems the most practical for my requirements.

Steve and Michell, thanks again for the great Forum, and thanks to all for making this such an interesting place to visit.  Just wish I didn't have a day job so I could go play in my coach more.


Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Delamination?

Reply #9 –
Xtreme found delam during and after FBP on my non-slide coach.  James thought it was poor glue-up.  FT thought it was caused by my motorcycle on its lift.  Delam was right above the tag.  Delam wasn't at all noticeable until they painted my coach in dark colors.  Then it really popped.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R