Two Scares In One Day

Topic: Two Scares In One Day (Read 1731 times) previous topic - next topic

Two Scares In One Day

August 27, 2012, 11:55:16 pm

Hello!

We stopped just before starting to cross Kit Carson Pass. CA-88. All of a sudden the engine hiccuped a few times and then stopped hiccuping.. It acted like a bit of bad fuel. Never happened before.

After crossing the pass the transmission started acting up. Rough shifts. Slipping between gears. Finally at a stop where my highway dead ended into another the transmission slipped so much the FT didn't even try to move. I noticed the transmission board did not agree with the VMS 240 CL - and it had a red dot near its top right.

I could see a tow in my future - and all the folks behind me were not real interested in figuring out how to get around me.

I shut down the engine and restarted it. The transmission behaved normally the rest of the way, even on CA Hwy 49. So did the VMS. I wondered if the VMS could have caused the problem?

The behavior to me sounds like electronics.

Crossing the pass was pretty benign. Transmission temp not higher than 220.

Suggestions?

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #1 – August 28, 2012, 12:28:06 am

I'm sure others will chime in but it does sound like you had a bad connection (temporey one)from trans. Scary at the time.
John

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #2 – August 28, 2012, 12:34:37 am

Quote

I'm sure others will chime in but it does sound like you had a bad connection (temporey one)from trans. Scary at the time.

"Scary" doesn't even come close to describing the feeling ;o)

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #3 – August 28, 2012, 07:56:13 am

Hows your system voltage? Low voltage makes Alison erratic.

Chuck

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #4 – August 28, 2012, 09:17:22 am

The "pucker" factor jumps way, way up when something like that happens and is erratic. Paul, you have my sympathy! Been there, had that!

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #5 – August 28, 2012, 09:19:04 am

Quote

Hows your system voltage? Low voltage makes Alison erratic.

That could be it.

While stopped at the highway intersection I had the emergency lights on and I noticed the audio beeping inside was weak. I didn't think to look at system voltage.

I'm also wondering if the earlier engine "coughing" and later transmission failures are related.

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #6 – August 28, 2012, 09:24:28 am

Quote

The "pucker" factor jumps way, way up when something like that happens and is erratic. Paul, you have my sympathy! Been there, had that!

Yeah. My sphincter ani externus is still sore ;o)

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #7 – August 28, 2012, 08:24:53 pm

Yup. Low voltage does that too.... I had it one time with a weak battery and I hit the boost switch and it stopped.

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #8 – August 28, 2012, 09:17:12 pm

#1 guess would be the Cole-Hersee under dash solenoid as it may be going bad. Use digital multimeter to check voltage on both sides. Ignition switch would be #2 guess. Make sure to get the latest model solenoid. Usually these symptoms get worse not better. Have posted the twin digital voltmeters I installed in the dash a couple of years ago. EZ to check electrical system health and for only $16/both delivered, how can you go wrong? Cig lighter digital meters are another good idea. Only $2.50/each delivered. Does the same thing as one lighter plug is coach, the other is engine.

Pierce

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #9 – August 28, 2012, 09:25:10 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – August 28, 2012, 09:17:12 pm

Have posted the twin digital voltmeters I installed in the dash a couple of years ago. EZ to check electrical system health and for only $16/both delivered, how can you go wrong?

Pierce's post with photos and info here:

Boost switch, not boosting...

-M

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #10 – August 28, 2012, 10:00:24 pm

Quote

#1 guess would be the Cole-Hersee under dash solenoid as it may be going bad. Use digital multimeter to check voltage on both sides. Ignition switch would be #2 guess. Make sure to get the latest model solenoid. Usually these symptoms get worse not better. Have posted the twin digital voltmeters I installed in the dash a couple of years ago. EZ to check electrical system health and for only $16/both delivered, how can you go wrong? Cig lighter digital meters are another good idea. Only $2.50/each delivered. Does the same thing as one lighter plug is coach, the other is engine.

Is this the solenoid you are referring to?

( http://www.allbatterysalesandservice.com/browse.cfm/4,7650.html )

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #11 – August 29, 2012, 11:44:19 am

Paul,

Yes, that's it.

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #12 – August 29, 2012, 12:38:49 pm

Paul,
Confirm what part is bad before you start buying and changing parts.

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #13 – August 29, 2012, 12:59:53 pm

"Confirm what part is bad before you start buying and changing parts."

Well, the last time I did it, it worked out pretty well. I guessed the problem was the generator voltage regulator, took a new one to R Mechanic in Livermore, CA and asked them to replace it.

I think I got out of there paying less than if I had asked them to diagnose, find the right part and order it.

Besides, these parts aren't that expensive compared to hourly charges.

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #14 – August 29, 2012, 07:35:57 pm

Paul,

This is the latest in the Cole-Hersee 200 amp line. It has silver tungsten instead of silver contacts. Solenoids & Relays | Steel & Phenolic Body Solenoids24213 | Cole Hersee -

You could also go to a solid state solenoid. The cost is a lot more but will likely last longer.

The 24213 is also used as the boost solenoid so good to have one on board.

Check all connections as they could be loose from vibration and be the culprit. Intermittent electrical problems are one of the hardest things to solve. When I say connections, start at the battery (both + and -) and go forward including starter connection. Hidden gremlins like staying that way. Some intermittent problems may not be noticed because of a very short duration but in the worse case, can cause voltage spikes that engine/transmission computers and other electrical accessories don't like at all. One of the causes of expensive aircraft radio failures are voltage spikes.

Perhaps another forum member has had a like problem. Nice to be able to learn from others experience.

An hour of troubleshooting labor at a shop buys a lot of solenoids, etc. A lot of shops replace parts as part of the troubleshooting experience until the problem goes away.

A mom/pop electrical shop may be able to suggest a fix based on their long experience without costing an arm or leg. I have no faith in the CW type shops. You pay for them to learn.

A hand held digital voltmeter can find bad connections with high resistance, lower voltage on one side. With your radio/satellite background, you are probably the expert with them.

Pierce

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #15 – August 30, 2012, 12:53:23 pm

And there is always the Solenoid Switch L-Series 12-24V - PN 9012 - Blue Sea Systems

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #16 – September 04, 2012, 04:55:30 pm

I drove the Foreteavel today for the first time in 8 days.

The engine started up normally. I always use boost.

It didn't take long for the engine to "cough" once.

I didn't rely on the boost switch on alone, I started the generator, too.

The dash monitor did show a voltage of only 12.4v at one point until I started the generator. Then the voltage was 12.9 to 13.2.

After that the 120 mile trip to the San Francisco Bay Area was uneventful. No engine or transmission hints of a problem.

So it appears now the problem is low voltage, as suggested earlier here.

Where to start?

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #17 – September 04, 2012, 05:18:38 pm

It's summer so you should not need boost to start it. Good idea to see how it starts on the engine batteries and at the same time check on their condition by how fast it turns over with the boost switch "off."

Check voltage with multimeter AT batteries with engine off and then engine running. Check voltage at the isolator on the supply terminal/cable.
You should see approx. 13.5 to 14.5 or so with the engine running. This should be at the large center terminal. Then check voltage at the other large terminals on each side for the engine and the house batteries. Isolator is just in front of the house batteries inside the last driver's side compartment.

If the engine coughed, it could be low voltage on the engine batteries. Generator only charges house unless boost switch is "on."

If low voltage at the alternator terminal (center) on the isolator, you could have a bad alternator or alternator regulator. Running the generator with the boost switch will keep both batteries charged if engine alternator is bad in a pinch.

If you come over to the Sacramento area, I will be glad to meet you with my meter and take a look tomorrow. Call me at 530.477.7465

Pierce

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #18 – September 04, 2012, 05:40:12 pm

Quote

It's summer so you should not need boost to start it.

I don't know that I "need" to use boost. It's simply my SOP.

Recommended by James T.

Thanks for the offer to come to Sacramento. Very kind of you. But I'll see what I can see here first.

Just now, connected to shore power and no boost on, the dash monitor showed 13v with the ignition switch ON one click. Ignition switch OFF I see 13-13.1v.

The Link 2000 shows 13.2v (float charge)

I assume the dash monitor measures starter battery volts. Correct?

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #19 – September 04, 2012, 07:59:28 pm

Paul,

Occasional starting on just the engine batteries should be done by checking the voltage at the batteries with a meter and then do a cold start with someone reading the cranking voltage also back at the batteries. After the engine has started, you should do a hand check to see if any cables are warm to the touch. Any warmth detected indicates resistance in the cable connections. The battery is the only place to accurately check battery voltage. Battery voltage will not stabilize and show the true voltage until six hours after charging. In other words, after you shut off the engine, the indicated voltage will gradually drop for 6 hours. This procedure is a poor man's battery condition checker. Here is a site that better explains the procedure: Voltage Drop Testing

I got rid of my CRT display and put the digital voltmeters in so I don't know without looking at a schematic which battery it reads.

The voltage you are reading while plugged into shore power does not show the health of the charging system used while the engine is running. I have the U280/U300 electrical schematic and can attach it if you would like but it should be in your big black Foretravel manual toward the back.
Bill Chaplin made a large copy for me from a store like Kinko Copies. It sure makes figuring problems out as is 100 times easier to read than the small pages in the book. Only $2-3 dollars to make the enlargements but worth their weigh in gold when the chips are down.

You could plug in a cigar lighter digital voltmeter into the dash 12V outlet and also the lighter 12V outlet that is next to the air ride controls. Not as accurate as being at the batteries but fairly close to check both engine and house batteries.

If you don't have one, Home Depot, Radio Shack, Harbor Fright, Lowes all have digital voltmeters.

Offer is still open or just call.

Pierce

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #20 – September 04, 2012, 08:12:25 pm

Quote

You could plug in a cigar lighter digital voltmeter into the dash 12V outlet and also the lighter 12V outlet that is next to the air ride controls. Not as accurate as being at the batteries but fairly close to check both engine and house batteries.

Yeah, I bought 2 digital VMs a week ago.

They should be here at our daughters somewhere.

But since we've both been on the road for weeks it still a mad house finding things.

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #21 – October 08, 2012, 11:46:05 am

I'll have to add a third scare. I had an appointment to take our FT into R Mechanic in Livermore, CA today.

I've had the boost on several times over the weeks to charge the starter batteries. Even had the boost on today.

But I thought I'd see if the starter batteries alone (I usually start with the boost on) would start the engine - and the engine did start as far as it did.

Moreover, the boost light would not come on, even tho it HAD been on a few minutes earlier.

In any event, the engine would almost start, I saw oil pressure (of course - its' an M11), then quickly quit - repeatedly. The engine never really got to a full start.

Any ideas are welcome before I call road service.

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #22 – October 08, 2012, 11:57:26 am

My VMS says "No faults"

And I must have at least 75 gals of fuel. Certainly 25% (50 gal or so) since the generator runs.

best, paul

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #23 – October 08, 2012, 12:00:58 pm

Did it turn over well? My battery connections loosen over time and need to be snugged up

Re: Two Scares In One Day

Reply #24 – October 08, 2012, 12:04:45 pm

I had the generator running a few times I tried to start the engine. No change, just a partial start and then quit.

Could it be the voltage regulator/alternator failed AND the boost switch/boost solenoid failed and the engine stopped because of no electricity?

I do have a new 200 amp boost solenoid I was going to have installed today.

best, paul

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