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advice on winterizing

I would like help in deciding what would be the best choice of actions. Will running the furnace at 55 degrees keep water lines and plumbing safe from freezing when temperatures are 10degrees?
The reason I ask is if it is okay to run furnace verses winterizing; I would prefer the furnace as I plan on heading south after Thanksgiving, However, being a rookie I do not want to make a mistake. Thank you for your advice and expertise John
John
1998 U270 34'

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #1 –
John,
    What year coach? What furnaces? Propane, front and rear? How long will you be gone? all winter? few weeks?
In any event I would winterize it and not rely on the furnace, too many things can go wrong. Run out of propane, regulator freezeup, furnace malfunction etc. 5 gal of RV antifreeze should do it. see this post

Winterizing

You can also do a search here on the forum and get more info.
If you need more help, come back.
Just my 2 cents, Good luck,
Rick
Rick

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #2 –
             Why I never winterize . When I get the urge to go ---crank it up and go . My first coach , a 1989 U-300 , always kept a small electric heater in the water tank bay , and another up in the coach kitchen area . Coach sat outside , saw some low temps in the low teens etc , never a problem . Now the coach is inside a heated garage so no longer a problem .If you winterize , you have to deal with the results , for me it didn't fit with my plans .            Brad Metzger
Brad Metzger
2010 Phenix 45'

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #3 –
The coach lives in Southen WI. My winterization is to drive it to Port RIchey, FL. Plug it in at Ja-Mar North, Hook it up, and insert my 88 year old mom and her 80 year old "boy-toy" friend into the coach to pay the bills. Works for her, works for me. When she is no longer able or interested, I will take over the "burden" of moving the coach to more appropriate temperatures for the winter and living in it there. Probably change it up for a few winters, intrigued by Mexico
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #4 –
John,

DO you have an aquahot or propane furnace? Are you plugged in? How many amps?

I hate the winterization ritual. That being said, on a propane coach, or one that is not plugged in full time with an aquahot, it is the safest choice. My water pump got ruined twice in the MOT parking lot when I had a U-270 with Propane furnace, because no one thought to turn on the heat in the coach, thinking I guess it had an aquahot.

If plugged in to 30 amp and you have an aquahot, and you were heading south around thanksgiving, I personally (like in my current coach) not bother with the winterization. Not plugged in to reliable power, or propane, I would winterize. Plugged into reliable power and propane - 50/50, space heaters will protect you, one in bay and one in coach, leave sink doors open in bath and kitchen, but you may not sleep well worried re risk of power outage or slight risk of equipment malfunction
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #5 –
We don't winterize. We leave the coach plugged in and set the rear propane furnace at about 45F. On our U295, the rear furnace supplies warm are to the rear bays. I added adjustable registers in the bedroom so that I can force more warm air to the bays.

We live in an area of Texas that seldom freezes. However, each winter we have a few nights below freezing.  We maintain a full fresh water tank. The 100 gallons of fresh water will help moderate the temperature in the bays. It will provide some protection in case of short periods of temperatures below freezing. Long duration of cold weather may require some electric heat in the bays.

We have traveled north to Missouri and Montana in December two times in the U295. We have lived in the coach during a period when the temperature did not get above 10F for about four days. We kept thermostats at about 74F and sustained no damage. I did add some electric heat to one bay for a couple of days.

We travel north in the winter to visit family. I carry several small electric heaters in case I need them. Most of them have never been put into service. I keep remote reading thermometers in the bays to monitor conditions.

If your coach is not closely monitored, winterizing is prudent. If it is near enough that you can easily check it, you may be able to leave fresh water in the systems. We live in a mild climate, the coach remains plugged to a 50A pedestal, and it is a 30 second walk from our back door.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #6 –
It is a 1998 U270 34' with one propane furnace that is always plugged into 30amp service. Where it is located I can have a 100 or 500 gal propane tank installed by the local Farm Service.
Thank you for all the assistance John
John
1998 U270 34'

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #7 –
IMHO, if I were going south just after Thanksgiving and lived in the Chicago area, I would leave it plugged-in to that 30 amp service you have, set the furnace on heat at 50F and supplement the utility bays with light bulbs just for insurance.  If I had to return in the dead of winter to the winter wonderland, then I would definitely winterize with anti-freeze fluid.

I use fluid as I have a Splendide and it's better for the SeaLand toilet.  Blowing air does not get the toilet cleared of all water well enough (don't ask me how I know that...hint: former Winnebago Rialta).
Peter
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #8 –
 
Quote from: 16840138 –
I would like help in deciding what would be the best choice of actions. Will running the furnace at 55 degrees keep water lines and plumbing safe from freezing when temperatures are 10degrees?
The reason I ask is if it is okay to run furnace verses winterizing; I would prefer the furnace as I plan on heading south after Thanksgiving, However, being a rookie I do not want to make a mistake. Thank you for your advice and expertise John
Hi John,

I think you will find that this is one of those "six to one and a half dozen to the other/Ford vs. Chevrolet/winterization vs. furnace/dry vs. wet" deals.  I think you just need to consider all of the various insights and do what leaves you the most comfortable.

I'm also a '98 with a single propane furnace.  I have had poor experiences with winterization and good luck with maintaining a heated coach, so I prefer using the furnace, and maintaining all of the other little things (so the furnace can do its work properly):
I have (very carefully) winterized twice and then didn't run the furnace during the cold spells.  The first time, the U-line ice maker solenoid fill valve froze and burst.  That time I also had the hot water tank relief valve fail to ever reseal properly and had to replace it.

The second time the toilet fill valve froze and burst (welcome Peter).  Both times I was forcing lots of RV antifreeze through all systems.  I assume that dead end pockets got me each time.  And our Splendide winterization is not fun at all. 

Ever since (11 + years?), I have used a regime of setting the furnace on 48, if it is expected to be 32 or above outside.  We set the furnace on 55,  if temperatures are expected between 32 and 20.  If it is expected to go below 20 (thermostat on 65), we stay on the coach to make sure we're aware of any malfunctions.  Years ago, we used the coach many times in subzero (sequential) over nights as well as traveled from NH to FL twice in subzero temperatures.  One of those times we were caught in a blizzard in Danbury CT for four days.  Since retirement, we head south near Thanksgiving (at the latest).  As an aside, I have used more than one 40 gallon tank of propane (in any 12 month period) only twice in 13 + years.  And that is with us living on the coach 6 or more months each year.
I keep the furnace tuned up, I make sure that the storage compartment gaskets are maintained, make sure that the shore power hatch is well sealed with a hand built dam and towel, make sure that the furnace ducts are directing heated air low into the bays.  Like JD, I keep the FW tank near full and try to let the other 2 tanks run high in order to maximize the thermal reservoir.  I have never used electric heaters but I have supplemented, with 100 watt bulbs, in the FW PUMP BAY and the utility bay when sub zero temps are expected (old boating-season-extender trick).  I have used remote temperature readouts and alarms but the bays have significant stratification and pockets, so that is a very crude tool at best.

Doing these things has worked well for us.  But the coach has always been nearby or occupied when in these conditions, so I have been able to keep a close eye on it.

I have high confidence in the furnace capacity/reliability and the general FT DUCTWORK/BAY INSULATION design, as long as the furnace is well maintained and the forced hot air is getting to the bays.

Hope this helps.
Neal
 
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Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
'02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
'04 Gold Wing
'07 Featherlite 24'
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
MC #14494
Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #9 –
Since we like to use our RV for winter recreation (cross-country skiing) the idea of "winterizing" is not a good solution. Last winter we kept the rear furnace at its lowest setting but discovered that it seldom came on because the engine heater kept everything pretty warm back there. Especially when it was above 30F. This year I may not use the engine block heater until the day before we want to go skiing.

I do put a little 200-watt heater (from Walmart) plugged into the outlet in the bay near the holding tanks and that is plugged into an outlet that only energizes when temperatures in the bay fall below freezing.

We also keep one "radiator" type electric heater set to keep the living room area about 40-degrees F along with another 200-watt WM heater on a freeze-detection plug pointed into the doghouse heater vents (where the top of the water tank protrudes). The theory being that if the propane fails then the electricity will hold it.

Last year the coach was noticeably warmer than the outside air when entering. We could just fire up and go. I haven't decided whether to keep the water tank full or nearly empty this year or not. We dump the holding tanks after every trip.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #10 –
I had a 99 270 and I winterized in December but if I was going out in early dec. I would not.  I just set the heat at 60 degrees and put a small space heater in the basement by the water and insulated the hole for the power cord with foam. That was the issue. I do not know that you need a bigger tank but for peace of mind you might just get one.  It can not hurt to have it and you can stay all winter that way if you want with that.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Neal Pillsbury –

  I have had poor experiences with winterization and good luck with maintaining a heated coach, so I prefer using the furnace, and maintaining all of the other little things (so the furnace can do its work properly):
 
And our Splendide winterization is not fun at all. 
 
 Neal
                        Neal,  I am intrigued by your idea of not winterizing but, we do not typically head south out of Maine until late Feb. and I am concerned the furnace (single) may not keep up with the demand. I am actually going to finish winterizing today but I think I will pay particular attention to the items you mentioned.

                    You mentioned the Spledide being an issue. What should I know about that other than whats in the manual?
                        Thanks, Dean
Dean & Deirdre

2012 Arctic Fox 22GQ
Was 2003 U270

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #12 –
 Dean,
We have a Splendide 2000S.  You may have the 2100, which may not have the same problem. 
From information gleaned off boating forums, the Splendide 2000's have a quirk whereby the Hot and Cold water supply valves and/or header (internal to the Splendide) impound a bit of water supply and may not thoroughly exchange with antifreeze when you are pumping antifreeze through the Splendide.  Since I've experienced the same type of problems with the U-Line solenoid valve and the Thetford toilet foot valve, I may be overly sensitive to the "impounding" or "hideout" syndrome. 
Anyway, the preventative measure, after pumping antifreeze through the Splendide in the standard winterization procedure, is to remove and drain the Splendide hot and cold inlet supply hoses,.  Then leave the hoses disconnected until ready to de-winterize the unit. 
My valves are under the left side of the closet in the WTB, accessible by removing the two drawers.  It's just that it's a contorted position and one must stand on one's head for a while, catching drainage and  working at awkward angles to accomplish the disconnection and reconnection of the hoses.  And then one has to go back and check, one or more times, that disturbing the fittings has not created  leaks. 
If I were going to do this routinely, I would add drain valves to make things more convenient.
Just not as much fun as parking on the right side of 32° Fahrenheit, if at all possible. ;D
Cheers,
Neal
 
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Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
'02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
'04 Gold Wing
'07 Featherlite 24'
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
MC #14494
Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #13 –
I don't want to hijack this post....but, would someone tell me the limitations of an Aqua Hot system for winter storage?  Is it recommended as the lone heat source for winters here in MI in a non heated garage?
Bill & Jan Velting
1998 U320 36'    2014 Xtreme facelift
build #5339  MC#17207
current toad: 2014 Cadillac SRX

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #14 –
Bill,

With more than a quarter of a tank of diesel fuel and batteries that are kept charged, your AH, which is in good working order, will keep your coach above freezing easily.  Highly recommend you pipe the AH diesel exhaust out-of-doors too.

Each interior thermostat needs to set to 50+ and make sure the basement thermostat is at 40 to 50+ also.

Keep slides in and interior cabinets with water pipes open.  You will burn 2 or 3 to maybe 4 gallons of diesel per day, keep tank above 1/4 or diesel will stop.  The electric is only 5000 btu (1650 watts) which is okay for Houston but may do keep up with the demand in your area.  Electric will not work during grid failure.

If you have sufficient plug-in power keep both electric and diesel on (will burn less diesel when electric will keep up).  If you have a grid failure, batteries are good for a few days, so short outage okay.  Long one, need to attend to batteries.

If you are not plugged in, you will definitely need to run the gen.  Running a gen in an enclosed garage is not a good idea unless you pipe its exhaust outside also.

Being inside may lower some of my estimates as you will not have any wind chill to deal with.  But garage temps well below freezing to below zero will need the 50,000 btu capacity of the diesel burner to keep up which it certainly can.

Hope this helps you.
Rudy Legett
2003 U320 4010 ISM 450 hp
2001 U320 4220 ISM 450 hp
1995 U320 M11 400 hp
1990 Granvilla 300 hp 3208T
Aqua Hot Service Houston and Southeast Texas

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #15 –
Bill,

As always, Rudy's advice is good.  One thing to keep in mind is that, like all electrical-mechanical devices, the AquaHot can fail at any time.  Mine has let me down when we have been out traveling.  If you are not storing it somewhere you can check on it every day or two, you may get a really bad surprise on a cold winter day.  Here in Colorado, I use the AquaHot for the occasional freezing night in the Fall when I still have a trip planned but once cold weather really sets in I winterize it with antifreeze and don't worry about it even when the temperature drops well below zero.  So far, with two different RVs over an 8 year period my total Winter damage has been two water pumps that leaked or wouldn't pump.  They may have been about to fail anyways so I don't know if it really was related to freezing.
Monti
2015 Born Free Triumph Royal 4x4
Previous:  2000 U320 3600

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #16 –
Monti,

I like your approach best for long term unattended storage.  Any failure that stops the AH not only results in plumbing damage in the coach but also a frozen AH fresh water loop.  The loop, which is made of copper tubing, reacts to the freeze by splitting in one or more places.

Therefore, when winterizing, be sure the AH fresh water loop has antifreeze in it just like other plumbing.

The fix requires high four or low five figure money for just the AH not to mentioned anything else in the coach.

Rudy Legett
2003 U320 4010 ISM 450 hp
2001 U320 4220 ISM 450 hp
1995 U320 M11 400 hp
1990 Granvilla 300 hp 3208T
Aqua Hot Service Houston and Southeast Texas

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #17 –
Thank you for all the advise. Very much appreciated.
Bill & Jan Velting
1998 U320 36'    2014 Xtreme facelift
build #5339  MC#17207
current toad: 2014 Cadillac SRX

Re: advice on winterizing

Reply #18 –
And be aware that heated basement compartments can attract rodents, some of which really enjoy destroying the integrity of the air lines, some of which (if not all) are made with some sort of corn byproduct that mice love to eat.