coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

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coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

October 02, 2012, 04:30:58 pm

I recently purchased a 1998 U270 34' with 1 propane furnace and was wondering what the outside temperature can be and yet remain comfortable?
Consumer RV says 30 degrees. And that seems like it is wrong. I have been in 36 degrees and was quite warm and comfortable. Thanks for all your assistance John

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #1 – October 02, 2012, 06:20:08 pm

John,

The exhaust air from the propane furnace is very warm to plain hot. So if you have propane and 12 volts in abundance, give North Dakota a visit this winter.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #2 – October 02, 2012, 07:06:48 pm

Like Rudy said, you need lots of 12VDC to run the furnace fan. We also have the 34' U270 and have camped in 20F temps and felt just fine (plugged in to 30 amp service). We usually just run the heat strips in the A/C units and are just fine to about 30F, then have to run the propane furnace to be toasty warm.
Peter

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #3 – October 02, 2012, 07:12:20 pm

We have a U300, 40' and have stayed in it at 7 degrees for a low and under 10 degrees for almost a week with no problems. This was with no supplemental heat in the bays an using both the heat strip in the AC units and the propane furnaces. DJ Stevens has probably spent more time in the cold weather than anyone I know so he can probably share the most reliable info on how low you can go.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #4 – October 02, 2012, 08:39:24 pm

Here is more information that you probably want. You can use it if you have trouble falling asleep.

I expect that one furnace in a post 1997 34' FT would do fine to lows around 10F. If it gets colder, supplement with electric heat as necessary.

We spent about four days at temps from about -5 to 10F in Billings, MT, between Christmas and New Year's Day. We did fine using two propane furnaces in the 36' U295. We burned about four gallons of propane per day. We were hooked to 50A service, but did not use the heat strips in the roof air units. I don't think we used electric heaters in the living quarters, but I don't recall for sure. We kept window blinds closed, but did not put extra insulation in windows, exhaust vents, or skylight in the bathroom. I did put a ceramic heater in the bay where the electric line enters the coach. Issues there could be mitigated with some insulation on the floor of the compartment.

I keep remote reading thermometers in the bays to monitor temperatures. The temperatures vary a lot from the top to the bottom of the bays. Small ceramic heaters or light bulbs will help protect water lines in the bays. I think a fan to circulate air in the bays with water lines would protect against cold spots that could cause damage.

We carry an electric water hose and use it in subfreezing weather. We choose campgrounds with all season water supplies when we stop for more than one night.

When we travel in winter, we try always to be prepared to "hunker down" in boondocking mode for at least four days. We stay near roads that will be plowed in case of snow. On one trip in our SOB coach, we made some bad decisions and found ourselves fleeing blizzards because the coach didn't have sufficient resources for stopping long enough to let a blizzard pass by us. We bought the FT and have found it has resources to keep us safe and comfortable for several days in temperatures below 10F.

We travel in the late fall/winter because that is one of the good times to visit family who live in Missouri and Montana. We have made three such excursions in DP coaches. The one in the SOB was too much of a "thrilling adventure." Two trips in the FT have been fun adventures. It's comforting to know that roads are usually cleared quickly and we can wait in FT comfort for that to happen.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #5 – October 02, 2012, 11:21:55 pm

I installed a vent less propane heater behind the passenger seat (removed the chair). Keeps the front of the coach toasty. Have to run the furnaces to keep the bays from freezing if it gets too cold. Had a ventless propane heater in the fifth wheel and would not be without one. Would have installed a vent less propane ceramic brick heater, but with our hairy dog didn't seem like a good idea.

Roland

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #6 – October 03, 2012, 05:41:28 am

Cold is a realitive term to some folk. We have spent some time in our coach where the temps are in the low teens at night 30s during the day, if you don't mind hearing the propane furnaces roar most of the time and sitting around dressed like an eskimo, I guess it's ok. Myself if it starts getting into the low 30s for very long I'm out of there, thats what Key West is for. Of course being from Fla 40 is cold to me. If you do spend time in very cold conditions make sure to keep your engine batts charged with the boost SW and make sure your block heater is in working condition, makes for a much happier starting when it's time to leave.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #7 – October 03, 2012, 07:13:46 am

I have spent time in cold wether too. In my 99 270 there was no issues and I would make sure I started the genset when boon docking every day. The temps going dwn into singe digits are fine. James Triana recommends to set the thermostats at 70. I put a light bulb in the water compartment and one in the storage compartment too. Had no issues. I did go to an Aquahot next coach and cold weather is easier to live in as the bays are warmer and the fans are quieter. Still the same temp inside though. So both work fine. I agree about different or more insulation on the floor and door of the water compartment. I also shove a big sponge in the hoe with the power cord.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #8 – October 03, 2012, 07:57:11 am

Things that make so much difference - insulated windows and aquahot - yes the maintenance is more on the diesel unit, but three zones of seperate heat, almost endless hot water and heat and little worry of running out of fuel, PLUS the fans are SO quiet. the furnace "roar" woke us up as it cycled on and off, you can't tell when the aquahot is running.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #9 – October 03, 2012, 08:51:35 am

Ever hear of a Aqua Hot user that wanted to go back to a gas furnace? Unless they just not willing to service every two years.
Never mind the extra amount of fuel burned by the LP furnace and all the heat going out the exhaust, in general, it takes about 3 times the LP fuel to Diesel fuel for the same use.

Its like having water plumbed in / carry water from the well

It does not take long to get the pix.
Cheers & MNHO
Dave M

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #10 – October 03, 2012, 09:40:49 am

Quote from: Roland Begin – October 02, 2012, 11:21:55 pm

I installed a vent less propane heater behind the passenger seat (removed the chair). Keeps the front of the coach toasty. Have to run the furnaces to keep the bays from freezing if it gets too cold. Had a ventless propane heater in the fifth wheel and would not be without one. Would have installed a vent less propane ceramic brick heater, but with our hairy dog didn't seem like a good idea.

I had one in the 21-foot Streamline trailer we used (and still have) and they really can pump out the heat. They are also called "catalytic" heaters and many people plumb them into the propane lines that lead to the stove/oven. The one we had (have) scared me silly when it was running although it was only really scary on start-up. But I would not keep it running overnight. It certainly kept that little trailer warm on cold mornings though.

Craig

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #11 – October 03, 2012, 10:58:04 am

We have spent several days in below freezing temps, and 14 degrees in Denver in December and got along fine with furnaces and or heat strips. With lite bulbs in bays and being prepared cold is not a real problem in a FT.
Gary B

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #12 – October 03, 2012, 11:49:23 am

Just for a funny

, when I was running the MCI, I had a 35,000 btu lp furnace in the upper part and a 1500 w heater in the water compartment, (all water was in the rear baggage compartment, so was tieght to outside elements. This worked fine to -8f I know for sure, how much lower is unknown to me.
Bus RV is fun, but lots of work and money to keep em going, once you can not do the work on em ur self.
Dave M

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #13 – October 03, 2012, 11:59:08 am

Even the smallest leak in the coach heater may result in higher CO levels in the coach. Using an unvented or catalytic heater will produce much higher CO levels inside and translates to elevated CO levels in the blood. A heart condition, high altitude and CO are a particularly bad combination. Stepping outside in fresh air won't do much good as it takes hours for the CO to leave the bloodstream. Cooking with the stove or oven can raise the CO level, especially if the flame is out of adjustment.

As winter approaches, it's a good idea to check all pilot lights as well as the appliance flame for any trace of yellow, a sure sign of CO production. Gas companies can make the check and adjust the flame, usually for no charge. Occasional colors in the flame are dust particles in the air burning. A sealed refrigerator compartment won't allow CO to enter the passenger compartment.

EZ prevention is to have a good detector onboard. Not expensive and can quickly point out any potential problems.

A short article with good tips about CO is found here: Carbon Monoxide Advice | RV's Caravans & Holiday Homes Couple of items here that I never considered.

FYI: Diesel engine exhaust normally produces/contains much less CO than gasoline engines/generators.

Pierce

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #14 – October 03, 2012, 01:05:20 pm

We try to get south in the cold, but sometimes that does not work. We use an oil filled radiator (electric) inside to keep us nice and comfy with no noise, uses only 15 amps on highest setting, lights in the bays if down in the 20's. etc. If it is staying cold, I fill my water tank and disconnect the hoses.

Best idea go south young man.

Ted & Karen
2001 36 ft U270

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #15 – October 03, 2012, 02:06:41 pm

Woke up this morning to three inches of snow, temperature 30 F. The coach is parked on our driveway with both the electric and diesel switches of the aqua hot on. The thermostat was on 65 on zone 1 and 62 on zone 2. The bathroom thermostat is set just under half of its full travel of the sliding switch. The diesel part of the aqua hot cycled on and off but it appears, the coach maintained the temperature with just the electric. I checked the coach at four in the morning and again at nine this morning. Nice and toasty warm and all zones not blowing but the bathroom was still on. In conclusion it appears that the aqua hot can easily maintain my temperature settings at this outside temperature with occasional cycling on and off.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #16 – October 03, 2012, 10:10:20 pm

We spent 2 months in Nebraska the winter of 2012, Jan and Feb. with our u320. The aqua hot did fine on diesel even when it got down to -9 with a 15 mph wind. It only used about 3 gallons a day and it kept it warm enough to be comfortable in short sleeved shirts and no shoes. I did put a light bulb in the water bay, no freeze ups. We plan to spend this winter at home in Florida

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #17 – October 07, 2012, 07:19:40 pm

I'm one of those who has tried just about every product when it comes to staying warm in winter and cool in summer. One thing that some of you may not know is that those "heat strips" on the roof (aka heat pumps) are good only down to about 38 degrees F. outside, so long as there is little or no wind...increase the wind, then increase the temperature value. You might think you are putting out heat at much lower temps, but the law of physics will prove you wrong! What is more likely is that since heat rises, the blowers from those heat pumps are simply circulating that warmer air...which is good in some ways. Just don't be fooled into thinking that your heat strips are doing anything for you when the temp outside is much below 38 degrees.

Unfortunately, I no longer have an Aqua-Hot and now have one of the more inefficient types of heating available...a gas log fireplace and central gas forced air whole house heating systems. YES, if there was an Aqua-Hot system available that I could use to heat my land-based home, I would certainly consider it. When I had my SOB's I had a catalytic propane heater, which I sold shortly after getting my 2002 U320 Foretravel I also had an Edenpure Electric Quartz forced air heater which really works wonders for up to 1000 sq.ft. living space so long as the outside temp never got much below 20F.

Just make sure you never forget to let the water drip if you are using a city water hookup or you may discover some really BIG problems the next morning. After that happened to me one time, I never used the city water system for long term usage...fill the water tank and be sure your water bay is kept warm. No more frozen hoses or broken water valves that can never be replaced (manufacturer of water faucet out of business).

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #18 – October 07, 2012, 09:35:18 pm

Quote from: John Christman – October 07, 2012, 07:19:40 pm

One thing that some of you may not know is that those "heat strips" on the roof (aka heat pumps) are good only down to about 38 degrees F. outside, so long as there is little or no wind...increase the wind, then increase the temperature value.

Our coach has "heat strips," but does not have "heat pumps." Specifications at Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year indicate that FT started installing heat pumps in 1999. My understanding is that a "heat pump" is an air conditioner running in reverse, i.e., it transfers heat from the outside to the inside. Indeed, heat pumps don't work well if outside temperatures are below about 40F.

We normally use the propane furnaces rather than the heat strips. Our control doesn't allow the use of heat strips and furnaces at the same time. The rear propane furnace supplies heat to the bays.

John's recommendation regarding disconnecting shore water in freezing temperatures is good advice. We do a bit of camping in cold weather. We always operate from the fresh water tank rather than from shore pressure. We carry a heated water hose from No Freeze Water Hose - Eliminate Water Line Freeze and use it when temperatures are below freezing. We use it for filling the fresh water tank as necessary. We monitor the operation to verify that nothing freezes up during the operation.

There are two campgrounds were we have stayed for a few days in subfreezing weather on more than one occasion. The campground in Missouri has heated water hookups. During cold weather the campground in Montana uses water hookups in a small well about 20" below ground near the back end of the parking space. Both systems allowing us to fill the fresh water tank as necessary. At both campgrounds, we had no problem dumping the waste water. The relatively warm waste water dumps quickly. We only open the dump valves briefly to dump waste water.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #19 – October 08, 2012, 05:15:14 pm

Thank you for all your inputs, Does a 1998 U270 put heat into the bays?

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #20 – October 08, 2012, 06:42:01 pm

Quote from: 16840138 – October 08, 2012, 05:15:14 pm

Thank you for all your inputs, Does a 1998 U270 put heat into the bays?

Yes it does. The duct work is clearly visible from the propane furnace(s).
Peter

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #21 – October 08, 2012, 07:36:37 pm

yes it does but only on propane furnace.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #22 – December 18, 2012, 11:38:40 pm

Does the AquaHot heat the bays in a 2002 U320?

I am continually amazed at the amount of information in this forum. Spending my nights here.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #23 – December 19, 2012, 12:19:34 am

Yes it does.

Re: coldest outside temperatures while still remaining comfortable inside FT

Reply #24 – December 19, 2012, 01:55:14 am

Yeaaaa.

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