Oil change

Topic: Oil change (Read 2392 times) previous topic - next topic

Oil change

October 17, 2012, 03:25:34 pm

Hello all.

I thought I would be taking my coach to Cummins to have all the service done, but now I'm thinking I may want to do some of it myself. I have been getting more and more in to doing various maintenance on the U320 and I'm feeling very comfortable working on it at this point. I have this link from Barry's site(cummins-ism450-belts-hoses-filters), but I was hoping to find a step by step presentation. I've been doing a search on this board but no joy. I'm sure I can figure it out but I would be more comfortable if I could follow a set of steps.

Things I have and understand are: I have a set of 4x4 wood blocks that I can block the frame and get the coach high enough for me to get under and work. I have seen the instructions for pre-filling the oil filter.

What I know I need: Some sort of container to hold 38+ quarts of oil. 36-38 quarts of oil (synthetic or not synthetic?). A filter, the numbers on Barry's site seem to be good, but they don't seem to be readily available. (what is a good place to purchase a filter?) Is there any other service that I should do in conjunction with the oil change.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice, and I'm sorry it this is a subject that has been covered before.

Re: Oil change

Reply #1 – October 17, 2012, 03:50:49 pm

David,
As far as where to purchase the filters check out filterbarn.com for best price's and really good service and shipping.
I bought a full set of filters and belts for our coach from them and they were much cheaper than Napa etc. Also recieved them just 3 days from ordering.

I have not had to change the oil yet in our coach so can't help you with the specifics there. I did watch the tech's at FOT do it and it didn't seem to tough though.

Dean

Re: Oil change

Reply #2 – October 17, 2012, 04:16:48 pm

Make sure that the frame has the steel safety bars installed before getting under the coach. See post below:

Working Safely around your Foretravel

Keith

Re: Oil change

Reply #3 – October 17, 2012, 04:30:37 pm

I'm liking this oil drain container. Amazon.com: Rhino Gear Crude Control Oil Drain - 14.5 Gallons, Model# 42008:
Anyone have a better one?

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Re: Oil change

Reply #4 – October 17, 2012, 06:19:03 pm

Quote from: David and Rita – October 17, 2012, 04:30:37 pm

I'm liking this oil drain container. Amazon.com: Rhino Gear Crude Control Oil Drain - 14.5 Gallons, Model# 42008:
Anyone have a better one?

I think you will get quite a bit of splashing with that type of catch pan although I have no direct experience with those on something with an engine drain hole approx. 1 1/4" diameter. I use a simple high sided Rubbermaid type tub maybe 24-28" long, x 16-18" wide and about 12-14" high, it is now buried in the bowels of the coach. Block the frame with steel safety tubes/block as noted by a previous poster, measure what you have for height to the bottom of the oil pan and get a tub that will fit and hold the gallonage. L"xW"xH"/231=capacity in gallons. Obviously leave some extra capacity. Align the tub lengthwise to the stream when you undo the plug, it will stream out approx 6-8" and then slow down, no splashing. If the oil is real hot, put on cloth gloves under extra large rubber gloves to handle the drain plug, it is hot and the cloth glove under will insulate your fingers from the plug. You might also need this for the filter as that may hold up to a gallon of HOT oil too(mine hold 1 gallon). I torque the drain plug to the low side of the torque because of the aluminum oil pan. When done, you can either pump out the oil with a small drill pump back into the gallon jugs for return to place of purchase or scoop it out with a cup and pour it into the jugs with a funnel, I have done both using rubber gloves. Then wipe out most the remaining oil with a few good paper towels (you can really get it pretty clean), squirt some Dawn soap in the tub and wash it out. If you size the tub correctly you will be able to carry misc gallon fluid containers in it while stored. You will need the correct size oil filter wrench too, these are large diameter filters, and the correct size drain plug socket. Buy filters from a reputable firm so that you are not getting counterfeits. Also if you are worried about a spill it would be a good idea to put down a cheap plastic tarp down just in case you dribble. A few pieces of cardboard can also cushion you from the ground quite nicely. Takes about 1/2 hr. but I am not in a rush nowadays. This is one of the simplest engine maintenance items possible and you won't have to worry about someone stripping out your drain plug. And don't forget to add the oil.
That's pretty much how I do it, YMMV
Good luck,
Rick

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Re: Oil change

Reply #5 – October 17, 2012, 06:39:40 pm

I use 2 ( or more) cheap plastic storage bins from Walmart and give them away to Auto Zone with the oil. You do not need to prefill the oil filter. Just the fuel filter if you change that. When I change oil, I also lube the chassis and drive shaft.

Re: Oil change

Reply #6 – October 17, 2012, 06:45:09 pm

We use the same exact drain pan, works great, also can set the filter on it to drain also, we then dump it into our 550 gal tank, when it is full, take it to a shop that burns it for heat.
the ISM450 takes 10 gal 15W-40 oil.
Be careful with the drain plug in the bottom of pan, some folks insist on destroying the threads. Know which way to turn it to open it.
No need to raise the coach, but it makes it easier, just slide under and get er done.
FWIW
Dave M

Re: Oil change

Reply #7 – October 17, 2012, 09:23:23 pm

Checkout this thread: Femco 'automatic' drain plugs

for some great ideas to get away from the thread stripping issue.

I use the Femco but Wyatt makes a good argument for an alternative. Really simplifies oil changes.

Also, you need a fairly robust filter wrench for these large filters. My initial one just bent and broke.

Re: Oil change

Reply #8 – October 18, 2012, 12:52:57 am

My Cummins 5.9 is equipped with a FUMOTO ENGINEERING valve which I installed. Has a nipple which I can attach a clear hose to make draining easier. I can drain into gallon jugs, one at a time if I want. Have these installed on all my vehicles and the garden tractor. Makes live much easier.

Re: Oil change

Reply #9 – October 18, 2012, 10:10:26 am

Thanks for all the replies and tips. I will be looking around tomorrow to see if I can get what I need locally. My brother in law was the head diesel mechanic for the City of Mesa fire department until 4 years ago. He was injured in a motor cycle accident and now he's wheel chair bound. I've talked to him today and he's got lots of good info also, the type of oil to use, where to get the filters and so on.

Thanks again.

Re: Oil change

Reply #10 – October 18, 2012, 04:27:46 pm

RE: "You do not need to prefill the oil filter"

An empty new oil filter can contribute to engine wear. While filling up the almost-gallon capacity of the empty oil filter, there will not be any oil pressure.

Pre-filling has advantages.

Re: Oil change

Reply #11 – October 18, 2012, 04:40:54 pm

Agree on the prefill on the filter, even tho it is discurraged by the factory, reason is the strong possibility of getting dirt in the oil. If you like to prefill, just make sure all the oil enters the filter around the outter band, and no oil goes down the center tube. The oil flow is enter the filter on the outter area, and filtered and leaves thru the center.

Of course, I fill thru the center being very careful to not alow dirt, works but is taking a chance.
FWIW
Dave M

Re: Oil change

Reply #12 – October 18, 2012, 07:22:58 pm

This is what I ended up with. The hoses it comes with are cheap but it does the job. Only down side is it is large to store.
Northern Industrial Tools Steel Low-Profile Oil Drain Dolly and Pump 15

Re: Oil change

Reply #13 – October 18, 2012, 09:01:03 pm

NAPA sells a big galvanized pan that is strong and effective. Make sure the oil is hot before draining. After loosening the filter, slip a big Ziplock bag over it to avoid spillage. Usually Walmart 15W40 is the cheapest quality oil. I only use Fleetgard filters.

Re: Oil change

Reply #14 – October 23, 2012, 02:00:04 pm

Update, I've got the things I'm going to need and I have one question. What is the torque spec for the drain plug?

Re: Oil change

Reply #15 – October 23, 2012, 07:32:41 pm

Per The Cummins M11 shop manual 65 FT-LB

Re: Oil change

Reply #16 – October 23, 2012, 10:39:58 pm

Quote from: flite2010 – October 23, 2012, 07:32:41 pm

Per The Cummins M11 shop manual 65 FT-LB

Thank you.

Re: Oil change

Reply #17 – October 24, 2012, 01:56:25 am

Follow up,

I goter done.....I bought 11 gallons of Mobil Delvac 15W-40 from Walmart for 12.97 a gal. 38qt's for the ISM and 6qt's for the Gen = 11 gallons. I went to public school, but I can do some math. I also got a 15 gallon storage container at Walmart that I used as a drain pan. I paid an extra couple of bucks for one with reinforced sides for around 8 dollars. I also bought a very cheep plastic pitcher to scoop the oil from the drain pan and pour it back into the gallon jugs. I also needed to buy a 1 1/4" socket for the drain plug. It was a bit of a messy job but I got it cleaned up pretty well. I also did the generator, it was very easy. Once I was done with the ISM, I let it run for about 20 minutes, then shut it down for about 20 more minutes before checking the level. I am a little concerned about the level. Before changing the oil the level was dead center on the safe area of the dip stick. Now I'm showing about a quarter inch above the safe level on the dip stick. Of the 9 1/2 gallons I put in I only got back about 8 1/2. So that should explain the discrepancy, but do I need to drain some oil? Once the engine is warm it runs at about 40psi.

Next I have the fuel filters ready to go.....Lets see what kind of mess I can make of that.

Thanks again for all the responses and help.

Re: Oil change

Reply #18 – October 24, 2012, 05:40:30 am

Definitely drain enough to get in the safe range. I maintain my oil level at mid range on the dip stick. In the future you can check the level before starting. Make sure you get the oil filter completely filled before installation.

Re: Oil change

Reply #19 – October 24, 2012, 08:49:19 am

David,

I would suggest a different answer to your oil level on the dipstick.

If you KNOW that you put in the correct quantity of oil per owners manual, then my first assumption would be that you need to re-mark the engine oil dipstick (also called calibrating the engine oil dipstick).

Also, best to check oil level in the morning after it has had overnight to drain back to the sump.

Brett

Re: Oil change

Reply #20 – October 24, 2012, 11:05:23 am

When I last had my oil changed my at Speedco they showed me the oil level after they were finished. I remarked that they overfilled it and they replied "not a problem", to which I said "no it will not be a problem after you remove the excess". The oil level on my coach has always been at the full mark, and not knowing how much oil they put in there I did not want to take any chance on a overfill. Reminds me of a time when I was driving big rigs, I had the oil changed at the regular interval and when the "technician" showed me the dipstick the oil was black and way way above the full mark. Told him something was and he disagreed. Talked with the service manager and told him the tractor wasn't moving from the bay until the issue was resolved. The tractor had two drain plugs for the oil turns out the "technician" had only removed one for the oil change. Another oil change while I watched resolved the issue.

Roland

Re: Oil change

Reply #21 – October 24, 2012, 11:39:46 am

If you have run x amount of miles problem free with the oil at the full mark, then that's where I would continue to run it.

Re: Oil change

Reply #22 – October 24, 2012, 01:08:41 pm

Thanks to Harvey for the positive statement regarding Fumoto oil drain valves.

I replaced the drain plug on my M11 with a Fumoto valve (with a hose nipple) because the threads in the aluminum pan were badly stripped such that the plug was held in with teflon pipe thread tape.

I have another Fumoto valve and thread tap which will fit a partially stripped M11 drain plug and which I will sell. Makes need for a large container unneccessary. Just attach hose, and open/close drain valve to fill whatever containers you have - no mess.

My question:
What is the proper oil level on an M11?
The dip stick on mine was manually etched to show different Hi/Lo marks then the original hi/lo marks which are still
visible.

My previous motorhome was on a P30 chassis with a GM 454 V8. The motor was burning a quart of oil every thousand miles. The GM P30 Technical Manual indicated to drain oil, remove filter, replace filter and refill with 6 quarts of oil. Run engine and let sit for several hours, then remove dip stick and etch "Lo mark". Add another quart and etch "Hi mark". These marks were one quart lower then original marks and engine no longer was using oil.

Re: Oil change

Reply #23 – October 24, 2012, 01:28:09 pm

I plan to go to the coach some time to day and give it another look. Hopefully it has settled a little lower. I put in 38 quarts, that's what is prescribed in my owners manual, and the oil pressure is good. I'm taking a short trip this weekend 300 miles round trip. I'm thinking I'll let it go as is. Fingers crossed.....

Re: Oil change

Reply #24 – October 24, 2012, 02:34:22 pm

David,
I have problems following direction/instructions myself, but with oil capacities I like to follow the manual for limits....But,,,,,

My kubota manual says to put in 6 quarts with filter change. Problem is, I'm quater inch over full with 4 1/2 quarts.

I've changed oil twice in the ISM 450, well, really three but thats another story to be told soon. The Manual says 36-38 quarts. I'm at full mark at 35 quarts both times I've changed myself.

I am curious as to remarking the dipsticks after draining on flat terrain and for extended period of tiime. The ISM will purge the excess, but the kubotas purging abilities I'm not sure of.

How many here have full/add issues with way dipstick is marked?

David

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