Met a nice Foretravel couple today

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Met a nice Foretravel couple today

November 09, 2012, 11:04:18 pm

This is my first time posting on this forum. My Honey and I are researching motorhomes for retirement time. I have driven by the Foretravel plant in Texas many times over the years and have seen Foretravels on the highway several times. However, I have never had the opportunity to get up close to one and look it over in any meaningful way. That is, until today.

This morning, I stopped in a country convenience store for a snack and something to drink. When I came out of the store, my eye was immediately drawn to a motorhome out on the diesel fuel island. I wasn't sure at first glance what brand it was, but with a closer look I saw that it was a U270 Foretravel towing a horse trailer. I started to just get in my truck and leave, but decided instead to go speak to the man who was fueling it. I approached him and said "Excuse me," which got an understandable "What does this guy want?" look. That is, until I asked if I could ask him a couple of questions about his motorhome. I told him I had been on this forum the night before. His ears perked up and seemed anxious to tell me anything he could about the coach. I asked him specifically about how the coach rode. His answer was, "It just floats down the road."

He very graciously showed me the different compartments underneath, the generator, air bags, etc. He offered to allow me to walk through the coach. I told him that I shouldn't since I had my work boots on. He and his wife said that didn't matter, that they had no carpet inside. I got my first look inside a Foretravel. I must say that I was very impressed with the cabinetry and the overall construction.

In my haste I failed to ask the owner's name, but I saw firsthand how gracious and ready at least that one Foretravel owning couple was to be helpful to someone who was just researching and learning. They even took a moment to give Motorhomes of Texas a hearty recommendation, to which I responded that I had also been on that company's website the evening before.

For what it's worth, Mr. and Mrs. U270 Foretravel owner from Illinois, you made my week! Thank you again for your hospitality toward someone you had never seen before.

Bookman

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #1 – November 10, 2012, 12:53:00 pm

Welcome! If you like that little look you had, you will LOVE getting your head inside more coaches. AND ... it is the BEST way to learn about these machines. Look, LooK, LOOK at as many as you can ... look at other brands as well ... and you will see why we are all madly in love with our Foretravels. If you get to be a regular at MOT and wander in the parking lot at FOT looking for Forum members who happen to be there, you will be well on the way to getting the answers to your questions. AND ... your "Honey" can begin compiling her Wish List for the features that make life enjoyable for her. The Forum is a fine place to fill in the blanks that pop up in your knowledge base ... and we all seem to have plenty to say on any given subject!! Few of us seem to be shy about giving our opinion or sharing stories ....

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #2 – November 10, 2012, 06:57:38 pm

Another welcome to one of the most knowledgeable groups around. My wife and I have also settled on a diesel pusher motor home for our full-time retirement coach, but we did so only after nearly two years of researching, starting with figuring out what we were going to want to do and what sort of coach would be best suited for our intended purpose. More than one person has gotten their hearts set on a particular coach, or brand of coach, only to discover within a few months of buying it that it really didn't suit them at all. This is a MAJOR investment that you are going to make, so be sure that this is really what best suits your needs. No one here will think any less of you if, after all of your questions, you decide that a Foretravel really isn't the best choice for you.

I've become fond of saying that I'd rather ask a thousand questions before writing that big check than asking one question a thousand times afterward. I'm sure that some of the people here are a bit tired of my many questions, but they are too polite to say so. Instead they graciously answer them and encourage me to ask more.

As Carol said, look at other coaches, too. Not only will it give you a feel for the quality that a Foretravel has, but you will also learn what floor plan(s) suit you, what little things will irritate you, and what you can't live without. Above all, ask questions of everyone you meet, here on the forum, in campgrounds, at dealerships, and at shows. Take your time, and the right coach will be there for you at the right time.

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #3 – November 10, 2012, 10:14:34 pm

Thanks for the kind replies. To introduce myself a little better, I have more than 1.5 million miles of experience driving Silver Eagles and MCIs, first on passenger buses for Trailways, then on custom coaches for music entertainers. But that career ended in December 1991 when I made the decision to stay home and try to be a better home-every-night husband.

Fast forward twenty-one years and you find my Honey and me looking forward to retirement that will be here before we know it. My wish is to be able to take her to see some of the sites around the country that I saw years ago in the course of my work while she stayed home waiting for me.

In spite of all that experience with high dollar conversion coaches, I have basically zero experience with purpose built motorhomes. When I look at them, whether online or in person, it is difficult to do so without looking through the lense of my past experience. I might sometimes not give great motorhomes a fair chance.

To date I have looked at the following coaches:

1) Had the opportunity to get a very thorough inside and outside guided tour through a very nice 2001 (I believe I'm correct on the year) Bluebird Wanderlodge LXI. I did not get to drive it, though.

2) I drove (twice) a 2000 Monaco Signature tag axle 40 footer. Impressed with some parts of it, but not so much with other parts.

3) There was the tour of the 2001 U270 that I mentioned in my first post.

I have not had an opportunity to check them out in person, but I've also cyber-looked (is that a word?) at older Newells and Country Coach Magnas.

That's enough writing for now. Please feel free to offer any suggestions or information that you can.

Bookman

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #4 – November 11, 2012, 08:33:05 am

You are looking at all the right coaches!

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #5 – November 11, 2012, 08:55:09 am

I agree with Dave, you certainly are on the right track. From my limited exposure to these other brands the Newell and Bluebirds are very heavy and have overly complicated systems. They are great coaches until something goes wrong and then are very expensive to fix. The Monaco seems fairly close but seems to have not quite as solid a platform as Foretravel with marginally less quality in their systems. The Magna seems to be the closest to Foretravel for solid performance and style.

I trust my humble opinions will help reinforce your initial evaluations. We would be interested in your future impressions based on your extensive experience driving buses.

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #6 – November 11, 2012, 12:13:33 pm

The tour of the Foretravel Factory can be an eye-opener for someone with your experience. A test drive can be easily accomplished at either FOT or MOT. If you determine the kind of floorplan you are happy with and settle on a price range and age range, either place can begin to keep an eye out on your behalf. Caution!! It is REALLY easy to just fall in love with one of these things! Don't be shy about joining and/or monitoring other owner based websites and checking out their threads on various topics. The fun is just starting!! AND ... where Foretravel REALLY shines is the RETARDER.

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #7 – November 11, 2012, 05:02:58 pm

I think most owners will say that they are the three they looked at and if you add in Country Coach and Newell you have the rest. If you ask me the only ones still in business are FT and Newell and that leads me to say to look at those stronger.

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #8 – November 11, 2012, 06:38:15 pm

Bookman, you're right where we were about a year ago. We started researching full-time coaches two years ago, and by last year had narrowed things down considerably. The brands mentioned in the previous posts were the motor homes that kept being mentioned as high quality coaches. One of the filters I used to help narrow things down was an active owners' forum that showed the owners were actually involved in caring for their coaches, not just taking them to someone else to take care of. The two brands that made that cut are the Foretravel and Wanderlodge.

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #9 – November 11, 2012, 07:05:21 pm

Monaco is also still in business, currently owned by Navistar. From what I read in the RV press, though, it could be sold off as Navistar refocuses itself on its core businesses.

Today, on my way back home from Alabama I stopped at an RV dealer that was closed for the day. I walked around to see what they had on the lot and found two or three Holiday Ramblers (but not the upper end models), an American Eagle, and a Newmar Mountainaire. The most interesting one was a Country Coach Intrigue tag axle. It was there to have some work done on it. I could not see inside except through the front door windows (being owned by some individual, I would not have gone inside if I could have). I did walk around it, looked under the slides, around the wheel openings, and inside the engine area, which already had the hood open. It had a C13 Cat in it (and I presume, a 4000 series Allison). I was impressed to the extent that it appeared to be built above average. I would not say that it appeared better built than the Foretravel I first posted about, but it did appear to be above average. Fit and finish seemed to be at least equal to the Foretravel. I did notice that the air bags were not placed in outward positions, but I could also tell that the chassis was anything but light-duty.

Carol, I have quite a bit of experience with retarders, but not with the joy stick controlled version. The people who showed me their U270 explained a bit of how their joy stick retarder setup worked, though. I've used retarders and I've used Jake brakes. I think I'd probably vote for the retarder. I have seen vehicles with both, though.

I would love to go through the Foretravel factory. Unfortunately, though, it has been years since I was in that area. I live in Tennessee now, and until the time comes that we are ready to make the big purchase I don't see a trip that far coming up in our crystal ball.

I'll explain something that may not make sense, that people who want to travel after retirement cannot make a trip to Texas. One reason that we are planning on taking the motorhome route is that my Honey has a number of medical issues that make it impossible to make a trip that long in a car. (Even in her Cadillac DTS, we have to stop at least every half hour or so to allow her to stand up or stretch out.) Dealing with airports, airplanes, etc. is out of the question. That is exactly why I am looking for the best riding, best built coach that I can find, and that will have units available in our price range when the time comes. We need the smoothest riding coach we can find and afford. Then, if she needed to, she could easily change positions or locations, or even lie down in the bed.

Kent, there is something about heavier coaches that I like. In general, if all coach systems are working as they should, I have found that heavier coaches ride better than lighter ones. Of course, the possibility exists that a lighter coach could have the suspension engineered and matched to the chassis/shell in such a way that the ride might compare to a heavier coach. I have driven lighter coaches and I've driven heavier coaches. My opinion is that in situations such as high winds, the heavier coach will be less affected by the wind than the lighter coach, and especially if it has a tag axle to help stabilize it. I know that there are conflicting opinions on the tag/stability issue, but my own experience of driving in high wind conditions (20 to 40 mph head and side winds and gusts in the 35 to 50 or 60 mph range) convinces me that tags and weight both matter considerably. A stationery tag can act as a rudder of sorts, helping to hold the coach in a straight forward direction. In snowy conditions, both tags and weight can contribute to a safer ride, given that the driver has the experience necessary to negotiate such driving conditions. (For the record, I will say that as far as I am concerned, it will be okay with me if I never have to drive in high wind or winter weather again. I have driven many trips up into the Rocky Mountains, carrying groups on ski trips. I have had an avalanche to miss the snow shed up on Wolf Creek Pass in Colorado where there was already 36 inches of snow on the ground, and land on my bus. There are other tales I could tell, but I won't bore you with them.)

I don't necessarily expect that our future motorhome must be an industrial strength piece of equipment, but I do want a safe, well-built coach. Even though I plan to never intentionally drive into unsavory conditions again, stuff happens. And when it does, I want my coach to help me make it through the situation in the best way it can.

kb0zke, I also like the idea of owners being intimately involved in the upkeep of their coaches. We also like the idea of possibly finding a community of fun-loving people to become a part of.

Thanks.

Bookman

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #10 – November 11, 2012, 07:33:13 pm

"My opinion is that in situations such as high winds, the heavier coach will be less affected by the wind than the lighter coach, and especially if it has a tag axle to help stabilize it." This is just physics. The heavier coach has more inertia keeping it going in the original direction than a lighter one does. The other side of that, of course, is that the heavier coach will require more fuel to move it over the same distance at the same speed as the lighter coach, assuming that the wind resistance is the same for both coaches. Everything is a trade-off.

I'm glad to read the opinions of tag vs no tag from someone who has real world experience. This is one of the most discussed questions on motor home forums, and can be quite confusing for those of us who aren't able to directly compare the two. Perhaps Bookman would be willing to start a new thread on this topic. I, for one, would find it most instructive.

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #11 – November 11, 2012, 08:21:46 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – November 11, 2012, 07:33:13 pm

"My opinion is that in situations such as high winds, the heavier coach will be less affected by the wind than the lighter coach, and especially if it has a tag axle to help stabilize it." This is just physics. The heavier coach has more inertia keeping it going in the original direction than a lighter one does.

To grossly oversimplify another aspect of the weight issue, consider this. If you set a paper shopping bag filled with canned goods next to the same size paper bag filled with styrofoam shipping peanuts and a wind storm comes up, the canned goods will most likely still be sitting there when the wind subsides. You'll probably have to go retrieve the other bag from your neighbor's lawn. Even sitting still, weight can make a difference.

Of course, there are situations in which weight has little to say about what the wind will do. I remember one night in the late 1970's I was driving a Silver Eagle on a night time west-bound schedule run between Oklahoma City and Amarillo, Texas. The route took me across 292 miles of two-lane highway. The first half of that trip was horribly windy, driving into a head wind that was crazy strong as a winter front approached. The second half of the trip was mostly on black ice. Sometime up in the night I stopped in the little town of White Deer, Texas to run into a convenience store, primarily to take a little break from the exhausting drive. I stopped with the tires about eight or ten inches away from the curb. I stepped off the bus and no sooner had I set my foot in the grass than a gust of wind broadsided the bus. That 40 foot fully loaded Silver Eagle with a tag axle gently moved straight sideways until the tires bumped the curb. The moral of the story? When ice and wind are in the mix, weight and tag axles can matter very little and all bets are off.

Bookman

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #12 – November 12, 2012, 12:10:34 am

Kent, I think a top field in coaches is Newell, FT and CC. Newell is heavy, expensive and huge, nice interiors in some designs. In the CC line, I wonder what the best years might have been? I was told that when finances were forcing them out, the quality changed. Not long ago a salesman showed me a CC 08 Allure, with 18,000 miles and it was quite nice. It does not have the retarder but I guess something about as good, had cummins ISL as I recall, uses different slide system that might be a plus. Some independent service folks told me that some CC parts can be hard to come by. I did not ride in it.

For Bookman, I have only had this coach a year and on two drives in West Texas winds. I found what folks had told me to be true, it is pretty stable in the winds. Weight plays a role, so does the height of the coach, the outward air bags, speed, pavement conditions. I cannot say it would meet the stability needs you cited, but I think from what I hear Newell may be best, then FT and then CC. I have never ridden in a Prevost.

My wife can get up while we are traveling a go to get a coke from the refrigerator. But it is not really without some movement. Reminds me of riding on a commercial bus, you can move around but keep a hand near something for support. Maybe if someone is in your area in a FT you can get a demo ride? I would like to see Tennessee, give you that demo but not sure when that would be. Good luck to you, Mike

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #13 – November 12, 2012, 06:09:24 am

Walking around the coach while it is being driven 50-70 mph is not real bright, depending on the road condition, drivers ability, and outside events, if the need for very hard braking happens, all the above go out the window, (just an expression) and the walker might find the windshield in a very uncomfy manner.

Just saying! Be aware of your surroundings and THINK.
Most of us are no longer teenagers and not as agile as we were even 20 yrs ago.

Dave M

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #14 – November 12, 2012, 06:48:24 am

I agree with the tag axle. It akes a huge difference. As to Monaco staying with Navstar, that is not going to happen. It will be sold or closed down. You have to go pre2000 to find CC not built by National who destroyed te brand. Heavy is a great word to describe Newell. If you are looking for a coach as you describe, then really your choices will boil down to a fT a Newell or a Liberty or Marathon conversion.

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #15 – November 12, 2012, 06:50:47 am

Quote from: Dave M – November 12, 2012, 06:09:24 am

Walking around the coach while it is being driven 50-70 mph is not real bright, depending on the road condition, drivers ability, and outside events, if the need for very hard braking happens, all the above go out the window, (just an expression) and the walker might find the windshield in a very uncomfy manner. Just saying! Be aware of your surroundings and THINK.

I am not suggesting that walking around while in motion is necessarily a bright idea. It is absolutely true that walking around while the coach is in motion is not always the best plan, especially for passengers who don't ride on private coaches every day i.e. as part of their occupation and have not developed "bus legs" (similar to the way flight attendants naturally walk in flight with a certain subconscious awareness). There are times that it is not wise at all, like in very windy, stormy, or winter weather, crazy traffic conditions, etc.

If you drive through Nashville on any given day, you will see private coaches (mostly Prevosts, these days) all over town turning, taking circular exit ramps, slowing down, taking off, etc. - all much more slowly than other similar vehicles do. I have heard other drivers complain about how slowly those drivers take those corners and exit ramps. It never bothers me because I remember what it is like to (1) keep those who are in bed, in bed (some are in the third bunk up from the floor which puts that bunk at eye level) and (2) keep those who are walking around, on their feet instead of down on their knees. Sometimes I smile when I remember one certain country music entertainer telling me that I was the only driver he'd ever had who could roll him out of his bunk and back in, all without him remembering it.

I never knew if he was referring to some specific event or not, but he was apparently happy with the ride.

Quote from: Dave M – November 12, 2012, 06:09:24 am

Most of us are no longer teenagers and not as agile as we were even 20 yrs ago.
Dave M

Shoot, Dave, I'm not as agile today as I was yesterday!

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #16 – November 12, 2012, 06:58:20 am

Quote from: John S – November 12, 2012, 06:48:24 am

Heavy is a great word to describe Newell.

Funny you should say that. Just light night, there was an Extreme RV episode on The Travel Channel. One of their featured stories was watching a Newell being built. I did not get to watch the entire episode, but one thing that surprised me was when the Newell employee that was walking through the process with the camera crew said that something like 60% of the entire coach's weight is in the chassis from the belt-line down. That weight distribution helps a lot in stability because it lowers the center of gravity. I think I have that percentage correct. From what I've read, Newells have a lot of heavy materials in the interior, so there is still a lot of weight above the belt line. The person in the episode was referring to a coach that would weigh just over 60,000 lbs. when it was completed. I know that the late model Newells are heavier than those that would fall within our budget. I really don't know what Newells weighed in the early nineties.

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #17 – November 12, 2012, 09:47:26 am

Quote from: bookman – November 11, 2012, 07:05:21 pm

I'll explain something that may not make sense, that people who want to travel after retirement cannot make a trip to Texas. One reason that we are planning on taking the motorhome route is that my Honey has a number of medical issues that make it impossible to make a trip that long in a car. (Even in her Cadillac DTS, we have to stop at least every half hour or so to allow her to stand up or stretch out.) Dealing with airports, airplanes, etc. is out of the question. That is exactly why I am looking for the best riding, best built coach that I can find, and that will have units available in our price range when the time comes. We need the smoothest riding coach we can find and afford. Then, if she needed to, she could easily change positions or locations, or even lie down in the bed.

Kent, there is something about heavier coaches that I like. In general, if all coach systems are working as they should, I have found that heavier coaches ride better than lighter ones. Of course, the possibility exists that a lighter coach could have the suspension engineered and matched to the chassis/shell in such a way that the ride might compare to a heavier coach. I have driven lighter coaches and I've driven heavier coaches. My opinion is that in situations such as high winds, the heavier coach will be less affected by the wind than the lighter coach, and especially if it has a tag axle to help stabilize it. I know that there are conflicting opinions on the tag/stability issue, but my own experience of driving in high wind conditions (20 to 40 mph head and side winds and gusts in the 35 to 50 or 60 mph range) convinces me that tags and weight both matter considerably. A stationery tag can act as a rudder of sorts, helping to hold the coach in a straight forward direction.

Bookman

I think you will find that a number of us are experiencing the Motorhome lifestyle for the same reasons you describe. I hit a million road miles, mostly in a car, in 1992 traveling most of the country by car for business. My back is now shot. Air travel is very painful as is a long car ride but I can drive and ride in the motorhome for hours without harm.

Also, logic and physics support your conclusion regarding weight and the tag axle, however the outboard air bags of the Foretravel and the rigidity of the semi-monocoque chassis change the dynamics somewhat. I have driven my 40 foot U300, without tag axle, in 50 mph cross wind from Kansas City to Wichita with very little noticeable interference. It also barely notices passing semi trucks. In my previous motorhome without the outboard air bags the same situation would blow me all over the road and tire out the driver very quickly.

You might think I am really sold on Foretravel's chassis design. You might be right!

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #18 – November 12, 2012, 10:45:28 am

Quote from: bookman – November 12, 2012, 06:58:20 am

but one thing that surprised me was when the Newell employee that was walking through the process with the camera crew said that something like 60% of the entire coach's weight is in the chassis from the belt-line down. That weight distribution helps a lot in stability because it lowers the center of gravity. I think I have that percentage correct.

That was a decent show and was a better factory tour than the one I recieved at FOT in person. By the way he said it was 50% of the weight, not sure what the CCC is on those models but once you load up the bays it may get up to 60% below the floor line.
Good luck in your research and search,
Rick

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #19 – November 12, 2012, 11:18:35 am

Quote from: Kent Speers – November 12, 2012, 09:47:26 am

Also, logic and physics support your conclusion regarding weight and the tag axle, however the outboard air bags of the Foretravel and the rigidity of the semi-monocoque chassis change the dynamics somewhat. I have driven my 40 foot U300, without tag axle, in 50 mph cross wind from Kansas City to Wichita with very little noticeable interference. It also barely notices passing semi trucks. In my previous motorhome without the outboard air bags the same situation would blow me all over the road and tire out the driver very quickly.

You might think I am really sold on Foretravel's chassis design. You might be right!

I agree that outboard air bags make for a more stable ride, especially in a side wind situation.

By the way, my Honey really likes the paint job on your coach.

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #20 – November 12, 2012, 11:47:46 am

Bookman,

Welcome to the Forum.

I went through the search process a couple of years ago and settled on a Foretravel. I spent my career in the automotive and truck fleet world and think that you cannot go wrong with a carefully chosen FT. As to side winds I have driven in 60 mph winds and they are not a problem. Yesterday I drove the coach to storage and we had gusts up to 58 mph and hardly noticed. You as a professional driver will have no problem. Many years ago I worked on London Transport and moved around moving vehicles in London traffic all day. Only had one incident with a sudden stop. It's always a risk but chose your time to leave your seat and the risk is small.

As to construction quality FT's are very well built with excellent factory support but, as there are so many around, problem areas are known and can be mitigated.

Ride quality is a function of unsprung weight ratio which is good on FT's. Add to that air suspension and you have an excellent ride. Certainly better than our CRV!

Good luck with your search and choose carefully and have the unit inspected and you should do well.

Keith

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #21 – November 12, 2012, 12:37:08 pm

Kent, what would you say your U300 weighs wet?

Kent and Keith, you both say the same thing about driving in high winds as the man that showed me his U270
(From my original post.) He said his just runs as straight as an arrow.

One more question. I have never seen a FT Grandvilla body style sitting next to a U270/U320 body style. In photos the GV looks like it would a little taller than the U270/320. Is that true, or is it just an optical illusion because of the front end styling on the GV?

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #22 – November 12, 2012, 02:04:24 pm

Just to give a note from the other side of the track. While not terrible, my 1996 270 by no means goes straight as an arrow. New tires and alignments have made no difference. Maybe Koni shocks would help, but as I said, it's not that bad, and I would never drive in a 60 mph wind anyway.

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #23 – November 12, 2012, 02:22:54 pm

Yeah, and just trying to keep up with it at that speed is tough enough!

Re: Met a nice Foretravel couple today

Reply #24 – November 12, 2012, 02:34:28 pm

Gayland, My 95 U280 handles well in the wind, I have driven across KS in 50 MPH side winds and not been worn out at the end of a trip. If you are still not happy with handling of yours maybe you should continue to look for a cause. I can let go of the wheel at sixty on a straight FLAT road and not panic. One member here says that you should be able to drive with one hand at the bottom of the wheel and I agree. Sounds like there is still a problem. If there is another FT owner near you I'll bet they would let you drive theirs for a comparison. If you are near ATL give me a call.
Gary B

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