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Topic: Busting loose frozen nuts (the metallic kind) (Read 895 times) previous topic - next topic

Busting loose frozen nuts (the metallic kind)

From another SOB forum today, this caught my eye. Who would have guessed?

I just wonder what the "dwell time" was before performing the torque test to loosen them.

Here is an interesting article addressing 'Penetrating Oils'.

Recently a Machinist Workshop Magazine did a test on penetrating oils. Using nuts and bolts that they scientifically rusted to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts. They treated the nuts with a variety of penetrants and measured the torque required to loosen them.

This is what they came up with:

Nothing: 516 lbs
WD-40: 238 lbs
PB Blaster: 214 lbs
Liquid Wrench: 127 lbs
Kano Kroil: 106 lbs
(ATF)/Acetone mix (50/50): 50 lbs.
 
This last  brew of 50% automatic transmission fluid and 50% acetone appears to beat out the commercially prepared products costing far more.
Michael
1995 U300SE CAT 3176B Build # 4612 ("Marvin")

Re: Busting loose frozen nuts (the metallic kind)

Reply #1 –
That actually doesn't surprise me... My dad used to use ATM administered into the spark plug holes of Mazda Rotary engines in the old days that had frozen or stuck Apex seals. He often managed to get them running where it was as though they never had a problem. Perhaps a 50-50 mix of acetone and ATF would have been even better!
Don
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Busting loose frozen nuts (the metallic kind)

Reply #2 –
The homebrew ATF/Acetone mix would seem to lend itself for removing bulkhead bolts that are rusted into place. The only problem I can see is getting the mix through the heavy angle iron and then have it penetrate into the threads on the first wall of the square tube where the problem is.

I have used a torch along with a brass hammer plus repeated doses of liquid wrench for really stuck nuts and bolts and have waited up to 24 hrs. before really torquing it. Nothing worse when removing something stuck than thinking the next step may be drilling the broken face and using an easy out.

Nice article.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Busting loose frozen nuts (the metallic kind)

Reply #3 –
I would think the acetone would eat rubber seals.
Rick

Re: Busting loose frozen nuts (the metallic kind)

Reply #4 –
I also use 50/50 ATF/acetone on bulkhead bolts and other places I need a penetrating oil.

And, I would NOT soak bulkhead bolts in this just to prove them with a torque wrench.  That would make the application of a sealant such as undercoating difficult to adhere.

I always check bulkhead bolts dry/as is.  You will find very quickly that the bolt is either broken (and won't torque up) or will pull the torque with no movement.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Busting loose frozen nuts (the metallic kind)

Reply #5 –
The seals in question were a hard carbon compound... Sort of the rotary engine equivalent of piston rings.
Quote from: Rick –
I would think the acetone would eat rubber seals.
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Busting loose frozen nuts (the metallic kind)

Reply #6 –
I think that penetrating oils can be a great help in some applications but how and where they are used is key. If the only the head of a bolt is exposed in many cases it may not help at all. I have found that heat (when possible) is the most effective as it works when the material expands. Impact which could be from a hammer, impact wrench and often a chisel has great results. I would also point out that the hex head of a bolt that has lubrication may be more likely to slip. An analogy to depict the penetrating oils ability would be; If a bolt was used like a plug and oil placed in a pipe holding penetrating oil one may never see oil come through to the other side. Where it works best is if a bolt goes through a nut and you can spray on both sides and the threads are backed through lubricated it will be very effective. I use battery powered impact wrenches of different sizes for both loosening and installing screws nuts and bolts and find that the occurrence of shearing off screws or bolts is much less than if even pressure is used.
1999 U320
Mount Dora Fl

Re: Busting loose frozen nuts (the metallic kind)

Reply #7 –
I never let crews use ATF- acetone mix on job site. The stuff is all but explosive. Wd is good for starting diesels. We used kroil oil and liquid wrench by the drum full.High temp {cherry red } and paraffin wax will remove most anything. As for bulkhead screws I think they where installed with some type of air tool and never torqued at assembly. Testing the screw to 250 inch pounds only shows that they have less then 250 or are broken .they may have much more then the set value on the wrench.Gam
joseph gambaro
1999 U295 36'

Re: Busting loose frozen nuts (the metallic kind)

Reply #8 –
My Uncle invented a penetrating oil back in 1938. Worked on everything and anything !!
When it came to marketing, it was just to damned good.
Never could find a container for it.
1993 U300, 6v92
build 4366
USAF retired, Flight Engineer, C124, C130
 ATP, A & E.  & ex AI