Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

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Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

December 16, 2012, 05:22:21 pm

Just returned from a trip where I let my Cousin drive the coach. He lasted about 10 or 15 min. and got out from behind the wheel and proclaimed he was no longer interested in a class A! This was primarily due to the steering play. I guess I am just used to it and it does not really bother me. My wife took a driving school at Lazy Days and on the way home after the class she drove for about 80 miles stopped and said no more driving the rig for her. Again the biggest reason was the steering play.

I remember reading where some here on the Foreforums said the had the alignment done with a little tow-in and it tightend up the steering. I also talked to someone at Lazydays and there was a add on equipment to tighten up the steering? I think it involve electric maybe servo motors or something?

How does one know if what they have is normal or to much play? For me as long as I keep my eyes looking down the road it feels OK. Less play would be nice but if could be tighter it would be nice. That said I know I can be oblivious to subtleties and often just plow through things that may bother others.

My cousin was very interested in buying a Fortravel until he drove mine. He has a CDL License and drive trucks for the Power Company in Key West where it is all local driving. The trucks front ends are also tapered and although they are about the same width he felt like the square front felt extra wide to him compaired to the trucks he drives.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #1 – December 16, 2012, 05:28:48 pm

Phil, I have always been impressed with the easy drivablity of the two FT's I have owned. I can drive mine with my hand on the bottom of the wheel with no effort. If you are getting enough play that you are fighting it you may have some suspension problems.
Go under the coach ( safely ), grab the drag link, shake it side to side, should be so little play that you can't see it, Pull both directions on the pitman arm, again if there is play something is worn. Sounds like you need a good alignment/suspension shop.
Gary B

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #2 – December 16, 2012, 05:41:02 pm

You need to verify the CAUSE of the play.

Pretty easy to do. With engine off and you looking under the front-end, have someone turn the steering wheel left right left right about one left right per second with progressively larger movement until you see both wheel JUST start to move. You are checking for play in the drag link and all the steering linkage. If any, replace the offending part.

If you have steering wheel play, but no steering linkage issue, the play is likely in the steering box.

Sheppard steering boxes do NOT have external adjustments for play.

These guys have a good reputation for "blueprinting" steering boxes to remove play: Red-Head Steering Gears, Seattle WA - Red-Head Steering Gears Home

Would also agree that proper toe-in and caster help minimize driver "work". And, yes, part of that is experience. I have seen those new to driving a large vehicle sawing the wheel back and forth. Ask them to resist over-correcting! Same thing on a boat. In teaching sailing, I have often put my hand lightly on the wheel and "taught" a newbie to no over-correct (remember, on a sail boat, the rudder is nothing but a brake and over-use WILL loose you a race or if cruising, you could totally miss happy hour. Neither acceptable.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #3 – December 16, 2012, 07:28:06 pm

All good advice, try to find if you have a worn component. After two alignments along with checks for worn components I finally decided to take matters in my own hands and fixed the problem.

Riding on rails

Chuck

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #4 – December 17, 2012, 12:22:29 am

I too felt I had too much play. Truck frame and chassis shop said everything looked ok except for a bad rag joint which is a rubber steering coupler that was replaced by a U-joint starting in 1993. That helped but I still felt it too loosey goosey. I bought the steering stabilizer that looks like a shock absorber that is mounted sideways between the steering components and the frame providing resistance away from the center point. There are similar devices with hydraulics and a control switch in the cab so that if the road is rutted or in heavy wind you can automatically recenter the thing. Mine is the simple model that you have to go under the coach and move a fraction of an inch constantly retightening it until you get it where you want it. I've been happy with the results. It will never be like driving my pick-up but it is better than it was. Safe-t-Plus is the brand I purchased but I think Roadmaster sells the fancy one.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #5 – December 17, 2012, 11:55:26 am

My 1994 U225 has nothing that I consider play, and I've been driving heavy vehicles since 1970. If it were mine, I'd be looking for something loose, or worn, on the front end.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #6 – December 17, 2012, 04:40:11 pm

I would agree with all of the above. If you have had two people complain about the play in your steering, something is not right. If, as others have said, you don't find worn or faulty components Wayne at the Foretravel factory would be my next stop. He is by far the best person around to correct wandering steering problems. However if you are due for new steering tires any time soon, get them first as a bad tread design or unevenly worn tires can also cause problems.

On my 93, U225 I never knew I had a problem because I never had anything to compare it to but after Dave Cobb bought the coach, he changed the tires and had it aligned by Wayne and said it drove much easier than when I had it. We have been told by numerous other Forum members that both changing the tires and the alignment can make a very noticeable difference in the effort required to keep your coach going straight.

Once fixed you will be amazed at how much less fatigue you will feel after a trip. And the next time someone else drives your coach they will brag about how easy it is to drive rather than how difficult.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #7 – December 17, 2012, 04:57:13 pm

Kent, would it be advantageous to either take pictures of the worn steer tires for Wayne to diagnose the problems or get new tires after Wayne works his magic?

When I asked my alignment shop about getting new tires first their reply was NO, let them see the wear pattern first. So I put new tires on, and then brought the old tires to the alignment shop to analyze. Not too feasible with the size tires on our coaches.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #8 – December 17, 2012, 05:26:16 pm

Like Brett said check all components for wear/looseness before you go any further. It's pointless aligning a vehicle until every component is within specs. Then have it aligned by a good truck alignment shop, or better yet by Wayne at Foretravel as someone suggested. They should check thrust angle (rear alignment) as well as the front. Specs are on a sticker under the instrument cover. Below is the link to my post from when I had my coach aligned.

Alignment. Good place in Belvadire, IL.

Keith

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #9 – December 17, 2012, 05:35:16 pm

The simplest thing would be to take the coach to Wayne at the factory as is. However, if there is a chance of badly worn steering parts it could be dangerous to drive. As Keith suggested it might be best to have the steering checked locally first and repaired if needed. Then just call Wayne at the factory (800-955-6226) and discuss with him what would be best. His phone extension used to be 114 but I think their extensions have changed.

I have had very good luck with Herman Power Tires in Nacagdoches on price and service.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #10 – December 17, 2012, 06:49:26 pm

Phil,if you find nothing worn out,take the coach to Josams in Orlando, this is the shop that Foretravel used when they had there store in San Antonio,Fl.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #11 – December 17, 2012, 07:04:34 pm

I will climb under (with the braces) and see what I can see with my mechanic buddy. Thanks for the responses, like Kent said I have no basis for a comparison. I do feel some play or wander but I just look down the road and relax but tighter would be nice. It would be interesting to have my cousin drive again after some tweaking.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #12 – December 17, 2012, 07:13:21 pm

Quote from: philtravel – December 16, 2012, 05:22:21 pm

My cousin was very interested in buying a Fortravel until he drove mine. He has a CDL License and drive trucks for the Power Company in Key West where it is all local driving. The trucks front ends are also tapered and although they are about the same width he felt like the square front felt extra wide to him compaired to the trucks he drives.

Driving a coach is comparable to driving a cabover big rig. Takes a bit of getting used to, however a loose front end does not help.

Roalnd

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #13 – December 18, 2012, 11:02:41 am

I think a big difference boils down to driver technique/skill. Like James Lovell's mom said, "my boy can fly a barn door if it's got a motor on it." I found that to be true in piloting as I rode right seat and watched my buddy calmly and competently land in serious crosswinds while the same situation would leave me drenched in sweat as pilot in command. Some folks just have the touch and some don't. That said, when my coach wouldn't handle to my expectations....worse than one of my old drill rigs mounted on a C70, worse than a short wheelbase dually pickup with 200K miles, I felt there had to be a little more than driver skill going on. What capped it off for me was getting stopped one windy day by a trooper who was curious why I was wandering between the lines. Danged embarrassing, that. All things considered, this is a simple suspension on a relatively long wheelbase and it should go down the road straight. At 100K miles with Meritor components, the wear should be well within specs and making it all new shouldn't be required.

Add a little toe in and try it, fifteen minute fix doing it yourself and easily reversible. It tightened things up remarkably on my coach. And yes, this was after alignment by "da man" at FT who set everything to spec. It's just that the specs didn't work in this case. I'm getting ready to do the same on my sister's coach, same length with half the miles and mine drives better.

Chuck

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #14 – December 18, 2012, 11:23:26 am

Frankly, I don't think there's an answer to your original question. It's been brought up several times before. I guess my test is how does it steer on a good road no wind. If it's wandering then you probably have a fixable problem. My state drivers test manual says that as part of the prestart inspection check that the steering wheel has an inch of play, which is just what mine has. I don't know the purpose of that, maybe to assure that there is no binding. Maybe some OTR drivers can comment, and also how likely is it that as heavily built as these seem to be that the front end would be wore after a hundred thousand miles. For me, it takes a few miles to get back to feeling relaxed enough to quit fighting a little bit of wander, but generally speaking, on a good road no wind it handles fine with one hand, bad road, side wind I have to pay attention.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #15 – December 18, 2012, 02:22:11 pm

An important factor is whether the front end has been greased every six months like it is supposed to be. When we buy an older coach, how sure are we that service intervals haven't been skipped.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #16 – December 18, 2012, 03:05:39 pm

I had this same issue.
1. Wayne at FOT adjusted front alignment and it seemed much better on test drive.
2. I installed new front tires; Wayne said alignment does not need to be rechecked and new steer tires will only improve handling. He did balance these new tires for me.
3. On my trip from TX back to OR I was again fighting it wandering.
4. I stopped at Henderson's Lineup in Grants Pass, OR. They test drove it and suspected the steering gear. But, further inspection with one guy moving the steering wheel and the other movement, slop, or lack of movement in all of the components underneath indicated that the steering gear was fine. Everything was tight and slight movement of steering wheel produced slight movement in all components below. They did find left front wheel bearing was a little loose and tightened it. They also weighed each corner including the tag and found the pressures were too low (this was just adjusted by Wayne) and they set them according to the Michelin data sheet (I later confirmed these as correct).
5. When I left the steering was fine; no objectionable wandering. So all they did was adjust one wheel bearing and increase tire pressures in all tires. Neither of these seem like they would have "fixed" my problem, but I am happy with how it drives now.

Dick

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #17 – December 18, 2012, 03:43:12 pm

Interesting Post. Back in the early 70' I was selling over the road and off road tires as a kid out of college. It was post the 73 gas crisis, and radial truck tires were the rage, but experienced truckers hated the "feel" of those radials vs. the old bias ply tires, since they seemed to "wander" a lot.

My coach has a "dead spot"(1 inch of steering wheel play) in the middle of the range - much improved after Koni FSD ( i think the FSD's greatest improvement is not to ride (c'mon, we are riding on eight air bags), but in rebound control that would otherwise effect unwanted steering inputs.

Based on the last post, I will have the following done when coach comes back from FL

Run max Air Pressure on steer tires to stiffen up sidewall to the maximum (side benefit on rolling resistance and heat generation)

have play in front end parts checked, especially steering box

if that doesn't make a difference, have Front End Alignment checked, with attention to toe in

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #18 – December 18, 2012, 07:01:16 pm

I have a great deal of respect for and faith in Wayne's experience with alignment of motorhomes but I do not agree with him or the Foretravel shop on tire pressure. I run maximum tire pressure as suggested by several Truck Tire dealers. The lower pressure may make the ride slightly smoother but the higher pressures make the coach track better and reduce the chance of over weight, heat related blow outs. If you have Wayne do the alignment, ask him to do so at maximum pressure.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #19 – December 18, 2012, 07:14:49 pm

A foretravel should be one of the best handling rigs on the road. I love to drive down the road in a cross wind with one hand on the wheel and the others out the window as I see others crabbing down the road all but out of controll. If your unit isn't handling theres something wrong. Gam

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #20 – December 18, 2012, 08:02:31 pm

My first coach was a 1989 40 ft U-300 ,2nd coach 2003 ,38 ft 320 , third coach 2006 40 ft Phenix , all these coaches drove really well , no complaints . Present coach build # 6527 has a steering gear box on each steering wheel . The difference I notice is this . Present coach has no noticable play . It stays the way you point it . Results in much less fatigue going down the road in a day long run . Don't see how it could be any better. I have driven [all] the high end coaches , and --none-- drive as well . As mentioned , air pressure is very key to stop the wiggles in the steering and not just the front tires either . Brad Metzger

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #21 – December 18, 2012, 11:47:25 pm

I can see it now, "adding second steering gear to U320-what parts do I need?"

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #22 – December 19, 2012, 07:23:19 am

I'm concerned about driving down the road in a crosswind with one hand on the wheel and the others out the window...maybe if I had extra hands this wouldn't be the problem I think it is.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #23 – December 19, 2012, 09:01:16 am

Installed 4 XZA3+Directional tires before leaving home in Nov. Had all 6 tires set to 120 psi as suggested by dealer.
( 2 front XZA3 Directional tires were installed 1/18/10. They were set to 100 psi front, 90 psi rear.)

On our 1,000 mile drive South, the ride was much firmer and steering more stable. Less wandering on the road.
Still may have the factory check the alignment if & when we get there. I tend to over steer and my wife doesn't.

Re: Steering Wheel Play what is normal?

Reply #24 – December 19, 2012, 09:47:30 am

Larry, It is absolutely essential that you be able to drive and steer with only one hand. If this was not true how could you give other drivers the one finger salute ?

( if you are real good you can steer with one hand on the horn button and the other outside the window with the aforementioned salute, this requires above average coordination ).

Gary B
Back to my pain meds

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