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Tag axles - pros & cons

I am trying to stay away from coaches with tag axles thinking that they add more complexity and more expense when it's time to replace tires. But are these really valid reasons to avoid tag-axle coaches. What are the pros & cons on this issue?
Royce & Denise, MC #17410
'01 U320 4220 ISM450 Build #5895 SOLD
Toad: '10 Honda CR-V

Travel makes one modest. You see what a tiny place you occupy in the world. - Gustave Flaubert

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #1 –
Hi Royce,
I've had a six wheeler for ten plus years. It's fine. If I was on the road a lot, I would have preferred a tag unit. They are available from 38 foot on up. They seem to ride, and handle, better. But they do add complexity, and dollars. You lose some lower storage. It's what you like, and can afford, etc. If it's a Foretravel, your fine.
Raymond
Raymond & Babette Jordan
1997 U 320
1998 Ford Explorer XLT

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #2 –
Tag axles cost more when using toll roads, when replacing tires and when performing certain maintenance actions. However, if the coach is well designed--as are Foretravels--then the tag axle is there because it is required to handle the weight of the coach. If given a choice, I would choose a coach without a tag axle. However, if the particular coach that I determined was "right" for me included a tag axle, then I wouldn't hesitate to purchase it. I don't think there is any significant difference in handling between a well-designed two-axle coach and a well-designed coach with tag axle.
David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #3 –
A couple of things to consider on tag vs. non tag axle.  Non tag means 2 fewer tires you have to pay for.  It also can mean less CCC (the tag will give you several thousand extra pounds of capacity).  If the coach has a rear slide, I would strongly recommend a tag (one of our members checked out a 40' 2 slide all tile coach without a tag and found the remaining CCC was less that would work for his camping needs.)

Tag axle may make the engine batteries less accessible (until you replace the OEM muffler with an Aero or Magnaflow...) and you may have less basement storage, but both those depend on the specific coach. 

Here's a previous discussion as well

Tag axle

Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #4 –
Having driven a lot of miles on my previous two FT without a tag and then putting on approx 20K on our current FT with a tag, it would be hard pressed to return to not having a tag.  So much better handling when putting on the miles.

If I only put 5-7 K miles a year then I would have to rethink. 

You do lose storage, which, since we are full timing is an issue.  Two extra tires in 60-80K miles is not an expense on a cost per miles basis. We only have a single slide, but would never think about not having a tag if we had two slides. Numbers just don't work.

If the floor plan works, the coach is right and a single slide you would be happy with either.  FWIW.
We are only strangers until we meet; however, some of us are stranger than others

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #5 –
I would  not have another coach without a TAG. They add so much directional stability. It is not a big cost difference and I try to avoid toll roads too.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #6 –
                 My first coach , a 40 ft non tag ran just fine ,------ but the next one had a tag .There is a difference on the stability factor for sure .Next two all with tags . If there is a next , it will have a tag . For the toll thing , I lift the tag so it doesn,t get counted as an axle , then drop it and go .Some toll stations do not count axles , but a standard toll for RVs, with a toad .A large issue on the side for a tag is --" safety " [ A BLOW OUT ] front or rear ,  it helps the directional control .    Brad Metzger
Brad Metzger
2010 Phenix 45'

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #7 –
Our coach is an 02 with front slide and closet slide in rear 40 ft no tag.  Lots of storage.  Drives very well but not driven a tag so can not say if tag is easier to drive.  Only drive about 10,000 miles per year so I really love the way the coach sets up. Everyone I have talked to who has a tag really likes them for many reasons.  Bought this coach for the interior layout.  400 has plenty of power all it needs to to be driven.  DAN
Dan & Shirley Stansel
2002 U295 4020 AGDS Build#6054
Towing Buick Enclave & M &  G Braking
Emerald Bay, Lake Palestine, Texas
MC# 16650

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #8 –
I put on 200K miles on none tag coaches.  The best way to describe it is when you have a big truck pass you on the interstate you will feel his bow wave or if a bus passes you the same thing. Sometimes you might even float over in your lane a bit.  Heavy side winds do the same thing.  I know a lot of people stop driving when there are side winds but I have only so many days and if it is not frozen I am going. (Well I pulled over twice in 12 years for heavy winds) but with the tag you do not feel the trucks pass or the bus that is zooming by.  You also do not notice the side wind till it is much higher.  In the midwest you have winds every afternoon. I have been in 30-40 mph sustained with higher gusts regularly and have no issues with my tag coach.  I pulled over when the winds were 60-75 with gusts and they put out a warning on I 80.  I watched the truck in front of me have his rear passenger side wheels show daylight.  We both got off at the next exit. 
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #9 –
My 38 with no tag & 2 slides fully loaded for 3 months of traveling has about 3k of spare ccc. Even when we replace the front carpet with tile, I cannot imagine how we could hit the gvwr.  Maybe 40 footers are alot heavier but our 38 works for us.  Sounds like those with a tag are happy especially racking up the miles.  We have only driven 10k in a little over a year but we are happy campers with our setup.
The selected media item is not currently available.

Mark & Mary Benko
Former coach: 2005 U295 3823
Jeep Cherokee, Honda Fit

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #10 –
The turning radius is greater with a tag, but lifting it removes the issue.  CCC was critical for me.  When I was shopping, the tag gave me more than double the CCC.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #11 –
Mark you have a smaller engine. The ISM weighs more than your ISL or ISC that is one of the big differences. Also you have a allison 3000 series transmission and the 4000 is 30 percent heavier. So the tranny is 900 vs 600 dry and the engine is 2268 vs 1685 dry as well. There is a fluid difference as well. So you need a tag.  You have two slide single axle 320 with a rear axle weight while within the 21K limit on the axle slight exceed 20K and that is an issue on some roads.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #12 –
John - My "lightweight" works for me.  The little 400 ISL gets up & down the same roads as everyone else.  The coach is 800 under 20k on the rear axle. Safe & legal. FWIW...
The selected media item is not currently available.

Mark & Mary Benko
Former coach: 2005 U295 3823
Jeep Cherokee, Honda Fit

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #13 –
Quote from: John S –
I put on 200K miles on none tag coaches.  The best way to describe it is when you have a big truck pass you on the interstate you will feel his bow wave or if a bus passes you the same thing. Sometimes you might even float over in your lane a bit.  Heavy side winds do the same thing.  I know a lot of people stop driving when there are side winds but I have only so many days and if it is not frozen I am going. (Well I pulled over twice in 12 years for heavy winds) but with the tag you do not feel the trucks pass or the bus that is zooming by.  You also do not notice the side wind till it is much higher.  In the midwest you have winds every afternoon. I have been in 30-40 mph sustained with higher gusts regularly and have no issues with my tag coach.  I pulled over when the winds were 60-75 with gusts and they put out a warning on I 80.  I watched the truck in front of me have his rear passenger side wheels show daylight.  We both got off at the next exit.

Was the 200k miles on Foretravel 8 airbag coaches?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #14 –
Yes, on a 99 270 and a 2000 320 and now I am pushing another 100k on my 42 foot with a tag.  Difference is very noticeable.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #15 –
Quote from: John S –
I put on 200K miles on none tag coaches.  The best way to describe it is when you have a big truck pass you on the interstate you will feel his bow wave or if a bus passes you the same thing. Sometimes you might even float over in your lane a bit.  Heavy side winds do the same thing.  I know a lot of people stop driving when there are side winds but I have only so many days and if it is not frozen I am going. (Well I pulled over twice in 12 years for heavy winds) but with the tag you do not feel the trucks pass or the bus that is zooming by.  You also do not notice the side wind till it is much higher.  In the midwest you have winds every afternoon. I have been in 30-40 mph sustained with higher gusts regularly and have no issues with my tag coach.  I pulled over when the winds were 60-75 with gusts and they put out a warning on I 80.  I watched the truck in front of me have his rear passenger side wheels show daylight.  We both got off at the next exit.

What I noticed in driving my non tag 97 u320 is that the air bag pressure to get the coach to ride height is fairly low.  The air bag pressure is a large factor in the coaches stability.

If you tested a overloaded unicoach like we did the original unihomes you would notice it is more stable.

The bags are actually too big for the load.  A early 90's Monaco used smaller Firestone air springs(figure 8 shaped) as the smaller bag took higher pressure internally to get the coach to ride height and the hourglass shape dampened some of the bouncing in itself.

Older ftx's with the 22,500 gvw Oshkosh chassis had smaller air bags and six bolt wheels and rode beautifully.  Perfect match for the 19,000 pound coach.  Flawless.

Foretravel lost a lot of sales to the other brands that had 10 bolt wheels and bigger brakes and airbags.  So for competive reasons they went to the 26,500 gvw chassis with ten bolt wheels and bigger bags. 

Did not ride as well.  So different I had to fill every tank in the coach before a demo ride.  Then it worked ok.

Customers asked me why Foretravel did this?  I mentioned what CM told me.  "We build them to be used not to sell"

In other words at full gvw it worked fine.  Empty it rode rough and leaned more on corners.

Same issue with my coach.  The bags are sized for a much heavier installation.

If using two in front and four in back probably better like the early 90's gilligs that beaver used.

By doubling the amount of air bags each one runs 1/2 air pressure. Leans

Look at a prevost le mirage.  Tag wheel is behind the drive wheel and mounted at the outside of the shell for stability along with the additional capacity.

So a tag adds stability with a low air pressure system.

New coaches fix that at 50k pounds.  Bet the air bags are at 90-100 psi each in the front at ride height?

More stable.  Stiffer Koni's help this stability some btw.  We used to add one or two clicks to the std setting on the Koni's for those who asked or noticed. 

Hope not too technical but every part interacts with the other parts if you are sensitive.

All most thought of using the non highway Firestone air springs Monaco used on their early coaches for the front of my unicoach to bring the ride height pressure up in the front and to stiffen the chassis up some.

Too big of capacity for what it actually weighs in my and I think others coaches. 

Bob
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #16 –
Quote from: John S –
Yes, on a 99 270 and a 2000 320 and now I am pushing another 100k on my 42 foot with a tag.  Difference is very noticeable.

Coach is heavier and the bag pressure is higher.  AND the tag.  Fixed it twice.  And ten shocks
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Tag axles - pros & cons

Reply #17 –
Now I understand why the FSD's improve handling so much, but unlike setting the oem Koni's stiffer little ride degradation.

Have said on this forum more than once that koni FSD's improve handling on these coaches, not ride. Now I understand why.

Dave M, what do you think of your new shocks?
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)