Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

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Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

January 08, 2013, 12:11:46 pm

Hello,
I am thinking of replacing the continious duty ignition solonoid with a Blue Sea 6005. In tracing the wires in the ign circuit there is an orange wire (wire #122) that goes to a switch labeled "N/S Switch". It is on Wiring diagram A-4752. Does anyone know that N/S switch is ?
The Cole-Heresey cont duty solonoid was less than 1 year old and it got pretty hot while in operation. Maybe a heat sink on it would help extend it's life. For now I just put another one in. I guess they don't make them like they used to.
Rick

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #1 – January 08, 2013, 12:15:08 pm

Rick,

If upgrading the ignition solenoid, I would (and have) use this one: Solenoid Switch L-Series 12-24V - PN 9012 - Blue Sea Systems

I don't have a copy of that wiring diagram, but N/S associated with ignition could easily be Neutral Safety Switch.

Brett

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #2 – January 08, 2013, 12:37:41 pm

Brett,
Thanks for the input. I am going to take the old soloniod apart to see what is causing the problem, probably pitting of the contacts because of the switching under load.
Attached is a picture of the wiring diagram
Rick

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #3 – January 08, 2013, 08:34:39 pm

Rick,

N/S is Neutral Start and refers to a relay that allows engine start when transmission is in neutral.

These links are write ups on how our coach manages all things that must work to engage our engine starter:

In the middle of the list is wire #122 and neutral start relay description:
Start failure-no crank-fixed it.
Start failure-no crank-fixed it.

Blue Sea 6005 is a manual switch that will not work as an ignition solenoid. The popular Blue Sea solenoid that will successfully work as an ignition solenoid is 9012.

I think you will find that the ignition solenoid connects starter battery positive to the many ignition circuit breaker bus-bars on the front main breaker panel.
When the ignition key switch is on, start battery current connects to one side of solenoid activation coil, the other side being negative-ground.

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #4 – January 09, 2013, 05:17:17 pm

Barry,
Thanks for the reminder about the info on previous posts and the neutral safety switch. I popped the top off of the old Cole-Heresey solonoid to see definitive proof that this was the problem. The contact areas were carboned up quite a bit and there was no current passing thru the main studs so I took an eraser (red) from a standard pencil to clean the contact plate and the threaded contact surfaces. I should have taken before and after pics, maybe next time. It works like new and I will keep that one as a spare and probably pick up a couple of import versions ($22.00) too. The Blue Sea 9012 is about $120.00 and not sure how long those will last so I am going to pass on those. The Cole Hersey (made in USA) only lasted about 6 months before it started acting up and then it finally quit just recently. I had another one on hand and it only takes 5 min to replace.
Thanks,
Rick

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #5 – January 09, 2013, 05:20:58 pm

Rick,

Specs on the Bluesea 9012-- it is in a different league than the old mechanical solenoids and well worth the money if you want a permanent solution: Solenoid Switch L-Series 12-24V - PN 9012 - Blue Sea Systems

Specifications
Cranking Rating: 10 sec.    1,500 Amps*
Cranking Rating: 1 min.    850 Amps*
Intermittent Rating: 5 min.    600 Amps*
Continuous Rating    450 Amps*
Nominal Voltage    12/24 Volt DC
Rated Switch Cycles    1,000,000
Amperage Operating Current - continuous    0.13A @ 12 Volts DC
0.07A @ 24 Volts DC
Amperage Operating Current - when changing state    3.8 Amps
Terminal Stud Size    5/16" (M8)
Terminal Stud Length    5/8" (15.87 mm)
Terminal Stud Torque    80 in-lb (9.0 Nm)
Cable Size to Meet Ratings    2/0 AWG x 2
Mounting    #10
Control Circuit Connection    Tinned Wire
Input Voltage    9-36 Volts DC
Contact Form    SPST-NO
Weight Lb (Kg)    1.00 (0.45)

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #6 – January 09, 2013, 05:29:08 pm

After many years of sperience, I no longer buy nor use Cole Hersey anything, years ago, they enjoyed a fine rep. However that has disappeared.
MO, Non humble
Dave M

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #7 – January 09, 2013, 06:24:58 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 09, 2013, 05:20:58 pm

Rick,

Specs on the Bluesea 9012-- it is in a different league than the old mechanical solenoids and well worth the money if you want a permanent solution

Brett,
I will throw note in the box of the last mech sol that I have with the Blue Sea info. If I have the coach at that time I'll probably go for the Blue Sea model.
Thank you,
Rick

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #8 – January 09, 2013, 06:43:52 pm

Quote from: Dave M – January 09, 2013, 05:29:08 pm

After many years of sperience, I no longer buy nor use Cole Hersey anything, years ago, they enjoyed a fine rep. However that has disappeared.
MO, Non humble
Dave M

Dave,
I guess I was relying on their old reputation although the unit itself looks to be of good enough quality. I'm thinking there may have been some excess oil from manufacturing on the contact parts and that is what carboned up to prevent reliable contact, maybe a lemon/dud. All of the silver plated contact surfaces were not pitted but just had a thin layer of carbon interfering with the continuity and they cleaned up to new condition with just a few scrubs with the pencil eraser. Anyway, the one I rebuilt now has an easily removeable cover and we'll be using it if/when the new one conks out.
By the way I installed the Rosen sun visors I picked up from you in Arcadia and had a chance to use them. They work great to block the sun in those hard to get at places, like the upper left corner. Sorry I did not get to spend any time with you at the rally but you were kinda busy so maybe next year.
Thank you,
Rick

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #9 – January 09, 2013, 06:56:31 pm

Rick, Glad you can use the visors. Yes, years ago things seemed different, QC changed etc. today other low cost solenoids work as well as the new generation C-H solenoids. We use many in our controls applications on genset and switch business.
The finest DC solenoid I ever encountered was used in my Piper Arrow for the master feed. Not cheap, not small, biggie cost but always did its job.
Dave M

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #10 – January 10, 2013, 10:14:13 am

Can the 9012 be used for other solenoids like booster, etc.?

Craig

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #11 – January 10, 2013, 10:37:25 am

Freeloading on this thread:
I sometimes get a short hesitation when starting. It seems to happen when the engine is warm and sounds like the whole ignition system has just gone to sleep for a second or two then the engine starts fine. Is this a symptom of the the starter solenoid or something else?

I have checked the battery cables and they are fine. (It's an ISL engine.)

Thanks

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #12 – January 10, 2013, 01:54:59 pm

Quote from: Larry Rubin – January 10, 2013, 10:37:25 am

Freeloading on this thread:
I sometimes get a short hesitation when starting. It seems to happen when the engine is warm and sounds like the whole ignition system has just gone to sleep for a second or two then the engine starts fine. Is this a symptom of the the starter solenoid or something else?

I have checked the battery cables and they are fine. (It's an ISL engine.)

Thanks

Quote from: Larry Rubin – January 10, 2013, 10:37:25 am

Freeloading on this thread:
I sometimes get a short hesitation when starting. It seems to happen when the engine is warm and sounds like the whole ignition system has just gone to sleep for a second or two then the engine starts fine. Is this a symptom of the the starter solenoid or something else?

I have checked the battery cables and they are fine. (It's an ISL engine.)

Thanks

Larry,
What is the position of the key when you get the hesitation? When you turn the key from OFF to ON (not to the spring loaded START position)? or when you turn the key from ON to START ?

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #13 – January 10, 2013, 04:57:35 pm

Quote

What is the position of the key when you get the hesitation? When you turn the key from OFF to ON (not to the spring loaded START position)? or when you turn the key from ON to START ?

On to Start. It doens't happen all the time but rather sometimes when the engine is warm.

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #14 – January 10, 2013, 06:15:04 pm

Quote from: wa_desert_rat – January 10, 2013, 10:14:13 am

Can the 9012 be used for other solenoids like booster, etc.?

Craig

Craig,

It could, but at the price I just used it for the ignition solenoid. That is the critical one that determines go/no go.

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #15 – January 10, 2013, 06:26:17 pm

Quote from: Larry Rubin – January 10, 2013, 04:57:35 pm

On to Start. It doens't happen all the time but rather sometimes when the engine is warm.

Larry,
That narrows it down a bit. Hopefully others with your year coach (or around there) will proffer their opinion too but I think it can be either an itermittent ignition switch or the starter solonoid.
Good luck,
Rick

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #16 – January 10, 2013, 07:11:36 pm

Any help out there to tell me where the starter solenoid is located on a 2004 with ISL engine? Is it usually close to the starter?

Again, appologies for freeloading on this thread.

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #17 – January 10, 2013, 07:46:33 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 10, 2013, 06:15:04 pm

Craig,

It could, but at the price I just used it for the ignition solenoid. That is the critical one that determines go/no go.

Thanks... I think my booster solenoid is TU and I'd like a good one. I'm considering building a whole new isolator board, too. Still too cold to repair the burned wiring but, fortunately, it doesn't affect the rest of the coach's 12vdc systems. I just can't move it. LOL

Craig

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #18 – January 10, 2013, 10:14:46 pm

Craig,

You also have the "manual" choice-- a simple marine ON-OFF switch. Wire to one lug from house bank. Wire to other lug from chassis battery. ON= combined. OFF= not combined.

PERKO Inc. - Battery Switches - Heavy Duty Battery Disconnect Switch

Re: Wiring diagram A-4752 etc

Reply #19 – January 10, 2013, 10:54:01 pm

Both Tyco & Blue Sea have the same solenoid and they make an excellent replacement for our ignition solenoid or boost solenoid. Many have used them in their Foretravels.

Tyco has models with side and bottom mount.

EV Source - Kilovac

Solenoid Switch L-Series 12-24V - PN 9012 - Blue Sea Systems

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