Front End Alignment

Topic: Front End Alignment (Read 1922 times) previous topic - next topic

Front End Alignment

January 15, 2013, 05:38:32 pm

Wow is the only word that fits. I was told in Oct I needed to get Wayne to do an alignment on my coach. I have an 01 and it was aligned the old way and did not show unusual wear patterns on the tires so I was not sure what the benefit would be. I can only say it was a huge difference. It drives like a different coach. Does anyone know when they started using this method vs the old way? If you have been done on the old method then you need to run not walk to FT and get your coach done. It is a great improvement.

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #1 – January 15, 2013, 05:41:46 pm

John,

Couple of questions:

What were before and after readings: Caster, Camber, Toe, Thrust angle, etc?

What is the new method vs old?

What specifically is better now?

Thanks.

Brett

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #2 – January 15, 2013, 09:11:15 pm

Dave makes a good point about negative and positive caster as well as toe-in. With negative caster, toe-out and thin side wall radials, the vehicle can be very twitchy from crosswinds, passing and uneven pavement. If this sounds like your coach, might be time to have the front end aligned.

Here is a good site with illustrations for camber, caster and toe-in. If you can't quite see the smaller drawings, hit the "command" and "+" keys. What You Should Know About Wheel Alignments | FiveStar ServiCenter

What's a good alignment cost these days?

Pierce

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #3 – January 15, 2013, 09:18:51 pm

Thanks for the link. Pictures are worth a thousand words.

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #4 – January 16, 2013, 12:12:20 am

I will get you the numbers tomorrow but the method is a modern alignment machine vs a tape measure style or so I was told.

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #5 – January 16, 2013, 05:44:35 am

Most heavy vehicle alignment today is done with lazer alignment eguipment which is capable of checking the alignment of all axles, and is much more accurate than the old string and tape measure. With that said the trick is finding a shop that knows how to use the equipment and is willing to make ALL of the proper adjustments. A rear axle or tag out of alignment can cause as many problems as front axles.

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #6 – January 16, 2013, 08:05:13 am

Quote from: bbeane – January 16, 2013, 05:44:35 am

A rear axle or tag out of alignment can cause as many problems as front axles.

Before Wayne aligned our coach, it pulled to the right all the time. I was concerned about alignment of the rear axle. There appears to be some range for adjustment. Wayne's reply to my question about the rear axle was that the rear axle is pinned in place. I infer that it is not adjustable.

After he adjusted the front end, the coach no longer pulled to either side and has been much easier to drive.

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #7 – January 16, 2013, 09:07:56 am

Dave,

Thrust angle: Learn About Thrust Angle and Vehicle Alignment

Brett

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #8 – January 16, 2013, 11:18:58 am

With a tractor trailer it is easy to spot the "off tracking" caused by the incorrect alignment (thrust angle) of the trailer axles. I have seen a bunch where the trailer is tracking to the left or right of the tractor. Easy to spot from behind and scary when they pass you and the trailer is tracking to the right of the tractor. We were behind a pick-up camper in Quartzsite the other day and he/she had a problem as I could see the left side of his camper but only the rear right corner. If he would have left tire tracks you would have seen four separate tracks, it was that far off kilter. First time I have seen off tracking like that on a short wheel base vehicle.

Roland

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #9 – January 16, 2013, 02:15:32 pm

Quote from: Roland Begin – January 16, 2013, 11:18:58 am

With a tractor trailer it is easy to spot the "off tracking" caused by the incorrect alignment (thrust angle) of the trailer axles. I have seen a bunch where the trailer is tracking to the left or right of the tractor. Easy to spot from behind and scary when they pass you and the trailer is tracking to the right of the tractor. We were behind a pick-up camper in Quartzsite the other day and he/she had a problem as I could see the left side of his camper but only the rear right corner. If he would have left tire tracks you would have seen four separate tracks, it was that far off kilter. First time I have seen off tracking like that on a short wheel base vehicle.

Roland

Indicative of a transportation company with a poor maintenance program. Wears out tires very quickly.

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #10 – January 16, 2013, 02:21:19 pm

My first RV was a front wheel drive Revcon. I had a rear spring shackle beak a weld, leaving one side of the rear axle trailing a couple of inches behind the other. I limped home (slowly) feeling like I was driving a crab.

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #11 – January 16, 2013, 08:05:36 pm

Pierce, to answer you, I paid $306 to Wayne. Not sure that normal, i.e. if he had to do anything unusual, spend more time than usual. I think that he did not but just a caveat, that may not be the price in all cases. Mike

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #12 – January 19, 2013, 12:44:59 am

I may consider getting mine done if it is that affordable. It's worth mentioning that when I replaced my 8 shocks a month ago with the FSDs I experienced many of the same results you speak of, so I wouldn't discount that as a big part of the equation. It rides much better now, stays straight easier.....
fwiw

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #13 – January 19, 2013, 09:49:54 am

Drove across country from Oregon to FOT in Sept. feeling the need while driving, to make many tiny corrections in steering. No problem but felt might need an alignment.
Had new Michelin XZA 3+ tires put on front and then it felt like the corrections were even more necessary... however, might be just my mind playing tricks.

In Dec. I had rear tires replaced too and had Wayne do an alignment. Coach handles better now.

Old numbers from factory in 11/27/2000
Caster L 3 1/4, R 4
Camber L 1/2, R 1/4
Toe 1/32 Ride Height 8

New numbers
Caster L 4.9, R 5.6
Camber L .3, R 0.0
Toe .05 Ride Height 8 1/4

Labor Cost C6053 Align Front End and Rear Drive $297

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #14 – January 19, 2013, 12:30:40 pm

Here are some of my observations and experiences regarding the handling of our 1997 U295 36'. A good alignment can make a big improvement in handling, driver confidence, and driver comfort. Replacing Bilstein shocks at 70K miles with Koni FSD didn't make much difference in porpoising, but may have improved stability. It seems to me that it takes a while, maybe 20K miles, for new tires to "settle in." (It could be that I'm "settling in" more than the tires are "settling in.") More effort is required to turn the steering wheel at low temperatures, i.e., below about 25F. I did raise the tire pressures to compensate for lower temperatures and the steering still felt "heavier." I thought something was binding, but steering became "lighter/easier" as we encountered milder weather. Marilyn felt the same changes regarding "heavier/lighter" steering effort.

We bought our coach about three years ago. It pulled to the right when we bought it. We immediately took it to a reputable RV facility for fluid and belt renewal, new tires, and alignment. Tire job was subcontracted to Herman Power Tire Company, alignment was subcontracted to a guy in Lufkin, TX. Coach still pulled to right after "alignment." I called the subcontractor three times. He never answered the phone, and never returned a call. We were new, naive owners who did not stay with the coach during service and did not immediately demand responses regarding any services that didn't seem fully satisfactory. Lessons: 1) Stay with the coach if possible; 2) Check/test/verify that results are satisfactory; 3) Work with your service center to reach satisfaction for you and for them.

Two years ago, we took the coach to FOT for service and alignment. They corrected some issues that were improperly addressed at other service center. Wayne aligned the wheels and reported that it appeared that nothing had been touched on the steering alignment for many years. The steering characteristics were remarkably better after he performed his magic. He insisted that we test drive the coach to verify that we were satisfied.

One year ago, seals failed in the steering gear/power steering unit. The seal failure was a mode that required remanufacture of the unit. To correct the problem, Wayne installed a rebuilt unit. Since then, the steering wheel has been slightly off center, but steering and tracking are good. I was in a time crunch when I picked up the coach, so I wasn't able to immediately request a correction of the steering wheel placement. My wife doesn't notice that the steering wheel is off center, nor did Drew Pierce when he did some testing of the coach last week. I'm pretty sensitive (translate: overly picky) to steering issues.

The coach does not handle as easily as my cars, but my cars don't have fully functional potty, kitchen, salon, and bedroom.

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #15 – January 19, 2013, 02:37:50 pm

When we bought our coach at FOT last March and had all new tires put on they asked if I wanted to align it. I declined because the service records showed it had been done a couple years prior and we had already spent several "coach bucks" on other service items. In hindsight

I wish we had done it because I think it is a bit twitchy sometimes although not real bad.
But that gives me an excuse to tell Dee that we need to go to Nac when we head South in a few weeks.

Dean

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #16 – January 19, 2013, 04:50:22 pm

Mine was 352.00 and it was worth it.

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #17 – January 19, 2013, 07:04:22 pm

Not wanting to drive all the way to Texas for a alignment, do you think its possible for Foretravel to supply there current alignment specs for a 95 U320, and then have a local truck alignment shop set to those specs?

Is there a difference from one model year Unicoach 40' U320 in specs?
What years would have a different suspension design?

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #18 – January 20, 2013, 12:01:58 pm

The specs for your coach should be on a sticker visible when you raise the dashboard cover behind the steering wheel. Let me give you a bit of unsolicited advice when you go to get your coach aligned. All these things are necessary for a good outcome and probably won't happen unless you hold your ground and absolutely insist on them.

1. Ride height absolutely must be accurately set first.
2. Components need to be checked for excessive wear/damage before proceeding with alignment.
3. Caster needs to be checked and set properly. Most alignment shops don't want to deal with this. You may hear "oh, it never changes, we can't get the shims, it's close enough and really doesn't make any difference". This is all b.s. It's a very important issue that directly affects tracking stability.
4. Toe in should be set towards the upper end of allowable tolerance.
5. A test drive should happen after alignment, and you should feel a noticeable difference in stability if your coach was out of alignment. Avoid the magical thinking that is common after having something fixed. Put it on the highway and let some semis blow by, drive on a crowned road a bit. If it's not satisfactory then back on the rack it should go until it's right.

I'd either take it to Josam's in Florida or Foretravel. Henderson's line up if you're in the PacNW. I think Foretravel charges flat rate for alignment, at least I know I paid almost $300 to have toe in adjusted. So, that should be for whatever alignment is necessary.

I'll reiterate.....you absolutely must be on top of what you want done if you want it done right no matter where you have it done. My experience, others may differ.

Chuck

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #19 – January 20, 2013, 12:36:49 pm

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – January 20, 2013, 12:01:58 pm

The specs for your coach should be on a sticker visible when you raise the dashboard cover behind the steering wheel. Let me give you a bit of unsolicited advice when you go to get your coach aligned. All these things are necessary for a good outcome and probably won't happen unless you hold your ground and absolutely insist on them.

1. Ride height absolutely must be accurately set first.
2. Components need to be checked for excessive wear/damage before proceeding with alignment.
3. Caster needs to be checked and set properly. Most alignment shops don't want to deal with this. You may hear "oh, it never changes, we can't get the shims, it's close enough and really doesn't make any difference". This is all b.s. It's a very important issue that directly affects tracking stability.
4. Toe in should be set towards the upper end of allowable tolerance.
5. A test drive should happen after alignment, and you should feel a noticeable difference in stability if your coach was out of alignment. Avoid the magical thinking that is common after having something fixed. Put it on the highway and let some semis blow by, drive on a crowned road a bit. If it's not satisfactory then back on the rack it should go until it's right.

I'd either take it to Josam's in Florida or Foretravel. Henderson's line up if you're in the PacNW. I think Foretravel charges flat rate for alignment, at least I know I paid almost $300 to have toe in adjusted. So, that should be for whatever alignment is necessary.

I'll reiterate.....you absolutely must be on top of what you want done if you want it done right no matter where you have it done. My experience, others may differ.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. That seems like good and sensible advice for a proper coach alignment. Slightly off topic but you mention raising the dash cover. I have not looked at this yet but are there any tricks to opening the dash cover. I don't want to be prying with a screwdriver if there is a secret latch or something.

Dean

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #20 – January 20, 2013, 02:12:00 pm

If yours is like our 99', there's a couple of cabinet style latches- one on either side towards the front edge. I happen to have a picture handy with the fliptop opened up, this is obviously of the right side but the left side is similar. It takes a pretty good tug, but you can just grasp one corner at a time, pull straight up and it should release.

Quote from: Dean & Dee – January 20, 2013, 12:36:49 pm

Thanks Chuck. That seems like good and sensible advice for a proper coach alignment. Slightly off topic but you mention raising the dash cover. I have not looked at this yet but are there any tricks to opening the dash cover. I don't want to be prying with a screwdriver if there is a secret latch or something.

Dean

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #21 – January 20, 2013, 02:23:12 pm

Quote from: acousticart – January 20, 2013, 02:12:00 pm

If yours is like our 99', there's a couple of cabinet style latches- one on either side towards the front edge. I happen to have a picture handy with the fliptop opened up, this is obviously of the right side but the left side is similar. It takes a pretty good tug, but you can just grasp one corner at a time, pull straight up and it should release.

Thanks Don, I will give it a try. Gotta kill some time until the football games start!

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #22 – January 20, 2013, 05:49:34 pm

Chuck, I like your attitude!

You seem to expect getting what you paid for... Hmmm how unusual these days. Where are YOU from?

I agree totally but get slam dunked anytime i feel the need to press my point at a check out counter, restaurant, etc. etc. etc., in America these days. (no, actually my point then made is taken with a great deal of respect...but I feel it must be made!) So, NOW...and especially that the items we are paying for are so expensive...that we should demand quality. I agree totally.

I deal just fine with waitresses etc. but when it comes to bigger bucks, I have higher expectations from the 'Business' and the 'Employee' and dang mon, it seems it is an uphill battle.

Standing tall i believe for the right issues. ron

Stay the course and thanks for your thoughts. ron

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #23 – January 20, 2013, 07:42:41 pm

Quote from: Dean & Dee – January 20, 2013, 02:23:12 pm

Thanks Don, I will give it a try. Gotta kill some time until the football games start!

I suspect your dash cover is like mine, also a 2003 model. It does not hinge up, rather the piece of plastic that forms the cover is flexible and slightly overlaps the hole it covers. You need to get a grip on it and tweak and wiggle it out of position. Have fun.

I wish mine had a hinge and latch.

Re: Front End Alignment

Reply #24 – January 20, 2013, 08:16:13 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – January 20, 2013, 07:42:41 pm

I suspect your dash cover is like mine, also a 2003 model. It does not hinge up, rather the piece of plastic that forms the cover is flexible and slightly overlaps the hole it covers. You need to get a grip on it and tweak and wiggle it out of position. Have fun.

I wish mine had a hinge and latch.

You are correct Tom. It took me all of 30 seconds to pop the dash cover off. I wish I had known that when I had installed the XM Radio. It would have involved a lot less time with my ear stuck against the brake pedal.

Thanks, Dean

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