Generator high voltage problem

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Generator high voltage problem

January 18, 2013, 10:42:36 am

Our Powertech 8kwh generator has short moments of putting out 166 volts instead of 120 volts. Most of the time it is running ok.

Our generator is wired for 120 volt not 240 volts, so both legs from generator are connected together behind both 35 amp generator breakers.

Obviously something is failing. Does the 166 voltage reading indicate a ground problem, loose wire. etc.
I think the 166 volt reading is telling us something.

We are at the Quartzsite Lemon rally and out generator is needed for the next 11 days.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #1 – January 18, 2013, 10:58:20 am

Barry,

Have you verified that this IS a true voltage fluctuation issue vs gauge issue? Do incandescent lights get a LOT brighter when voltage spikes up?

Brett

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #2 – January 18, 2013, 11:13:56 am

Barry
Give Powertech a call, see what they suggest.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #3 – January 18, 2013, 04:16:22 pm

I purchased a new voltage regulator from Power Tech to arrive tomorrow.

Thanks for your diagnosis.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #4 – January 18, 2013, 07:17:59 pm

Just fixing to post I have one and have no need for it....Looks like I'm 2 late

Hope the reg fixes it for you.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #5 – January 18, 2013, 11:02:59 pm

RE: Just fixing to post I have one and have no need for it....

Thanks for your offer. We have one flying in from Florida to two hours away in Phoenix tomorrow. So we figure we will not need your kind offer.

How is it you have a one you don't need?

We did learn there are two different voltage regulators that looks alike. One is for generators with brushes, which have a brush access door at center end of gen. Another volt regulator for gen that are excited. Ours has the brush access door.

Our gen has been running perfectly at 120 volts for 4 hours tonight without a fault, so the problem is not consistent.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #6 – January 18, 2013, 11:38:31 pm

Mine is brushless.. The story with mine is it just stopped making power (with only 78 hours) on a hot hot Texas day.
I called Powertech in Fl and they sold me up on the reg was bad so 200 bucks and shipped to me the next day. Installed the reg and had bad power swings.It would swing from 100v to 150v so I took it to a Powertech dealer, they pulled the gen and sold me up on a diode/reinstalled with no power at all. They tried all kinds of stuff to bring it back to life but nothing worked..In the end Powertech told me my head was dead and needed a complete new gen head at a cost of 2,500 bucks. The new head came with a new reg so that's why I have a extra one

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #7 – January 19, 2013, 10:52:50 pm

We installed a new voltage regulator today and everything seems to be running ok.

PowerTech part # 06REG21, voltage regulator model 2.1 Brush 120, 720-VR2-1, $215.

Regulator is screwed down to bottom of control box had has one 6-wire plug. No adjustments are needed.

This problem is behind us and we thank everyone who made suggestions and offered help. Now it is time to enjoy a week in the Quartzsite desert with the Lemon's and a whole lot of interesting RVers.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #8 – January 20, 2013, 11:46:42 am

Pictures of voltage regulator have been added to my previous posting about model # & price.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #9 – January 20, 2013, 12:32:06 pm

Dave Katsuki made a good comment on the different ways we protect our coach from problematic high voltages like the ones we just experienced from our failing generator voltage regulator.

We have the Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C over/under/surge voltage protection device (EMS-HW50C). Many RVers use an EMS.

EMS can be installed several different ways which is the reason for this posting: External pedestal plugin, hard-wired to before transfer switch & hard-wired after transfer switch, each have their own pros & cons.

Only hard-wiring after transfer switch, protects the coach from generator voltage problems like we experienced. If our EMS had been installed any other way, we may have fried our electronics from the 166 volts from our generator.

We mounted our EMS-HW50C's remote display panel next to our other volt meters so it is readily visible. And when the EMS relay opened to protect the coach, the remote panel continued to display the incoming high 166 voltage reading. This high voltage only lasted for less than a minute, so if we had not had the panel visible, we would have not been aware of what our generator was doing.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #10 – January 20, 2013, 03:04:15 pm

Barry, I appreciate your info on the Progressive Ind. EMS-HW50C unit, also see it is available from Camping World for $378.
Glad the volt reg solved your generator issue.
Cheers
Dave M

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #11 – January 20, 2013, 04:23:56 pm

Good deal, sounds like you guys dodged a bullet on that one. I just installed the hardwired Progressive unit, hardwired after transfer switch. It fit very nicely into the false compartment in front of engine, mounted over the transfer switch. Easy install, protected from weather and surges from any source.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #12 – January 20, 2013, 05:01:37 pm

Our EMS is installed in the exact same place as Chuck's. We used a loop of #6 cable to the EMS so it can be swung out of the way to work on transfer switch.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #13 – January 20, 2013, 05:42:20 pm

Quote from: Dave M – January 20, 2013, 03:04:15 pm

Barry, I appreciate your info on the Progressive Ind. EMS-HW50C unit, also see it is available from Camping World for $378.

$333 (currently) from RVUpgradestore (where we bought ours)

Progressive Energy Management System 240Volt / 50Amp Hardwired w/ Remote Display

Michelle

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #14 – January 20, 2013, 06:10:04 pm

I was told that it would require 2 EMS's to protect from shorepower and gen power anomolies. EMS would have to be added to each circuit . jc

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #15 – January 20, 2013, 09:52:24 pm

Quote from: hotonthetrail – January 20, 2013, 06:10:04 pm

I was told that it would require 2 EMS's to protect from shorepower and gen power anomolies. EMS would have to be added to each circuit . jc

Not so. Check your wiring block diagram and you will see it only takes one.

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – January 20, 2013, 05:01:37 pm

Our EMS is installed in the exact same place as Chuck's. We used a loop of #6 cable to the EMS so it can be swung out of the way to work on transfer switch.

Great minds think alike. I did the same.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #16 – January 21, 2013, 12:07:28 am

I currently have my EMS installed in front of the transfer switch to protect from shore power glitches, and am now planning to move it inboard of the transfer switch to protect from generator spikes as well as shore power anomalies, but strictly speaking, to protect your transfer switch from 220V coming in where 120 is expected, you do need another EMS in front.
Got personal experience with blowing the transfer switch that way, since early on, I plugged the rig into a rewired "30 amp" connection at a friend's house and discovered too late that it was wired for 220V appliances. Blew the coil on one of the contactors in the transfer switch, and I had to replace it. Don't know how common that wiring glitch is, but when I move the EMS behind the transfer switch, I will be extra careful about metering the shore power before connecting.

On the other other hand, it would be lots cheaper to replace the transfer switch than potentially nail all of the other AC equipment in your rig from a generator spike...

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #17 – January 21, 2013, 08:40:43 am

Another source, I bought mine here.
http://tweetys.com/search.aspx?find=ems

$299 + shipping

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #18 – January 21, 2013, 08:51:30 am

Quote from: Rick – January 21, 2013, 08:40:43 am

Another source, I bought mine here.
http://tweetys.com/search.aspx?find=ems

$299 + shipping

I think this one does not come with the Extra Digital Remote Display $78.96 like the RVUpgradestore does

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #19 – January 21, 2013, 10:00:53 am

Quote from: Barry Beam – January 21, 2013, 08:51:30 am

I think this one does not come with the Extra Digital Remote Display $78.96 like the RVUpgradestore does

Barry,
You are right. The one with the remote display is 350.00 from tweetys. Thanks for correcting that info.
Rick

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #20 – January 21, 2013, 06:08:53 pm

Since our EMS does not protect transfer switch from a broken pedestal plug, we use the familiar home-made tester that has a 50-amp male plug at one end of a regular cord cut from a #12 extension cord, and 15 amp outlets at the other end with polarity & volt meters. We always check campground and friend's house outlets before plugging motorhome in.

I have heard of pedestal problems that destroy transfer switches in such a way that the generator is also damaged by back feeding from destroyed transfer switch. If the pedestal problem is transient, we could be at risk. While a transfer switch is not a major problem if damaged, the generator is. Maybe I need two EMS protections?

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #21 – January 21, 2013, 06:18:52 pm

Barry, Where did you mount the digital display module, I am thinking under the rear TV and light switch area ?

Also, Michelle shows the price that includes the remote display, so feel that is better value for me.

Thanks
Dave M

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #22 – January 21, 2013, 10:57:20 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – January 21, 2013, 06:08:53 pm

I have heard of pedestal problems that destroy transfer switches in such a way that the generator is also damaged by back feeding from destroyed transfer switch. If the pedestal problem is transient, we could be at risk. While a transfer switch is not a major problem if damaged, the generator is. Maybe I need two EMS protections?

Have to admit, I hadn't considered protection for the transfer switch itself. Seems like the genset would be protected by the open contactor. Hard to imagine the scenario that would cause the phase relationships of a hard wired pedestal to change. Of course its also hard to imagine the dynamics of a train wreck and they do happen.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #23 – January 21, 2013, 11:54:12 pm

EMS-HW50C includes a remote panel. Control box does not have a display.
EMS-HW50C

Our 36' motorhome has a curb side kitchen table with a pantry cabinet, hallway closet & bedroom drawers all connected. The cabinet above the table has our Prosine control panel, solar panel, LinkPro meters and this is the place we mounted our EMS remote.

We ran a meter cable under the carpet between the bed and the bedroom drawers, then across the connected cabinets.

Anywhere the meter panel can easily been looked at is ok. We may look at our meter several times a day to be sure we are not overloading our generator 35 amp legs, and when on 30 amp shore power when turning on an appliance. We may turn off a space heater or hot water tank to run microwave, etc, so for us keeping it near other meters is important. We know the loads on each power leg.

Besides being a voltage safety device, our EMS is our only volt meter when on generator or shore power and we use the volt meters a lot.

Re: Generator high voltage problem

Reply #24 – January 25, 2013, 10:29:51 am

SO, has there been any more thought as to best place to hook up EMS since the last posting. Before, in the middle or after Transfer switches?? It will be one of my next fixes so nice to get it right!
John H

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