Bulkhead separation

Topic: Bulkhead separation (Read 2206 times) previous topic - next topic

Bulkhead separation

January 25, 2013, 08:22:37 pm

Have read the threads re: the separation but have not seen any #s by length. If I missed this info, please direct me to where I might find it.

Just wondering how may of you have had a bulk head separation that was repaired, either by you, FT or Other and how that corrolates to the length of our coaches.

Thanks for your vote or input.

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #1 – January 25, 2013, 08:44:55 pm

This is going to be a tough one to poll.

You will have to define "separation". Many have had a couple of broken Rolocks. Some have had mild separation-- you can stick a key in the joint between angle beam and box beam. A few more severe with larger gap. And a handful have been neglected until complete separation has resulted.

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #2 – January 25, 2013, 08:45:18 pm

No bulkhead problems for me. During my PDI I noticed the previous owners had a couple of bolts replaced. There is no sign of "rust creep" so far on my 1997 U295 36

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #3 – January 25, 2013, 08:56:15 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 25, 2013, 08:44:55 pm

This is going to be a tough one to poll..

+1

I don't think you can look at just length - there is model year, tag/no tag, and non-brake slowing additive (engine brake/transmission retarder), fresh tank fill/overfill, road salt region. Rather a complex model to build given the variables. To date there is no evidence that coach length has any bearing on whether there has been bolt failure/bulkhead separation/rust jacking. A more common denominator is whether the bulkhead was subject to moisture and corrosive environment such as salt air, road salt, water leak, fresh tank overfilling, etc. More user-dependent factors that are hard to pin down.

No issues on our 40'.

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #4 – January 25, 2013, 09:05:12 pm

My 2001, 36 ' that has a history of being garage kept with little exposure to the real world, has been examined by several who know what they are looking for and at, they claim it is like new. So must be related to the elements one drives through plus others. Am told it is not a biggie if you check it and correct it if it needs attention.
Like other items like tires, best check them too, there are areas one needs to have a clear idea of whats up.
Dave M

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #5 – January 25, 2013, 09:56:04 pm

Thanks Brett and Michelle -

Brett-
I agree - The amount of separation is important, however, if it has been repaired regardless of the amount of separation, I would consider it significant.

I also agree with Michelle that there are other significant factors involved relating to : "model year, tag/no tag, and non-brake slowing additive (engine brake/transmission retarder), fresh tank fill/overfill, road salt region", However, I thought it would be interesting to get a "number" of units repaired then determin the % of units repaired based on the number of units produced. I do not know if the total number of units produced based on the assembly procedures are available. But I would like to know. I am not interested in any legal implications, (no I am not an attorney nor do I have any hidden agenda), regarding this issue. I am only interested from the statistical point of view. I spent 25 years in the steel business and the last 10 of those years in the world of Quality mainly dealing with process control, failure, resolution and mistake-proofing processes. I guess old habits die hard.

Again, if this information is available on this web site and I did not see it I would appreciate it if someone could direct me to where it may be found.

I am in no way trying to diminish the importance of this problem. It is certainly an inspection that must be completed from time to time to reduce the possibility of total failure and all that goes along with it. Heaven forbid.

Thanks again,

Scott

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #6 – January 25, 2013, 10:49:06 pm

none on mine and after taking a couple Rolocks out they looked like new (almost). Absolutely no signs of seperation or rust and we have driven thru some heavy snow the last few years. I do try to keep it clean and rustproofed though.
John H

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #7 – January 25, 2013, 11:18:57 pm

I hope this helps you on the separation question. We have a 2001. With so much talk of bulkhead problems, even though I looked at it and thought it ok, and had identified some for folks that had separation, I wanted an expert opinion. When I told him my question to an expert he responded that by that model year production it just is not an issue unless quite unusual. I told him I would like for him to look anyway, could I bring it by and he was pleased for me to do so.

Before getting under the coach, he repeated his expectation. Upon examination he report it looked very good, explained what that meant and gave me reassurance. Now, I do not know if a prior owner had fixed it, I cannot assure that it was kept in some way that protected the bulkhead. I think you are wise to check. This is just what I was told. We will see if others on the Forum agree with this being less of a problem with these age model coaches. As to length, 40 ft with 140,000 miles, 2001.

By the way, this fellow does repairs with a great reputation and urges people resist the temptation to try to tighten the bolts a lot to see if they are loose, saying some people strip our perfectly good bolts. Good luck. Mike

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #8 – January 26, 2013, 05:36:37 am

Don't know of any 44 foot coaches. 42 or 45. Also about 140k no evidence here either.

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #9 – January 26, 2013, 09:12:01 am

Quote from: Michael & Jackie – January 25, 2013, 11:18:57 pm

By the way, this fellow does repairs with a great reputation and urges people resist the temptation to try to tighten the bolts a lot to see if they are loose, saying some people strip our perfectly good bolts. Good luck. Mike

Totally agree with this statement. In fact in my write up on Bulkheads as well as how I check them: "Check torque to 250 INCH (repeat INCH) pounds." Clearly over-torquing can strip the walls of the box beam.

If the bolt will not hold less than 21 FOOT-pounds, it isn't doing you much good. That is a common torque for a spark plug in an aluminum head!

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #10 – January 26, 2013, 11:22:54 am

Our coach had total front bulkhead failure. I was not aware of this problem before I purchased the coach. (My problem) Had I known and addressed the issue before the failure occurred I could have saved a lot of painand agony. But then again it was soooo much FUN spending last summer on my back beneath the coach.

The rear bulkhead has also had some Rolok bolt failure and the repair was done by one of the previous owners. Our coach was purchased in TN. It spent most of its life on the East Coast (East of the Mississippi river), chasing NASCAR, it also spent a bunch of time in Florida. Wow, talk a bout a lousy combination, exposure to salt in all its natural and altered forms and maintenance neglect not a good combination with a marginal design, MOHO.

Roland

Re: Bulkhead separation - Poll - hoping for more data points?

Reply #11 – January 29, 2013, 11:55:21 pm

Was hoping for more data points - anyone else want to chime in?

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #12 – January 30, 2013, 07:34:45 am

I think there are not too any who have it and also it is a quick fix as in one day to repair so as the group gets some age and they do a quick preventative huck bolt addition, you will see this less and less.

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #13 – January 30, 2013, 09:04:56 am

If you have not examined for the issue yet, maybe it would be a good time to have a look to determine if there is a problem. ??
Like John S mentioned, this does not seem to be a major non repairable issue, it just keeps getting blown up into a lot of horse hocky. If needs fixin, do it and move on.
MO
Dave M

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #14 – January 30, 2013, 09:22:29 am

For those that have had a catastrophic failure, the Bulk Head Issue is a big, deal but I am aware of only two serious or catastrophic failures out of the hundreds of vintage Foretravels still running around. As Dave says, check the bulk head and fix it if needed. Its part of the cost of owning a vintage Foretravel. Vintage Foretravels are a lot more reliable, have a lot fewer problems and are less expensive to operate than any other brand of premium Class A. IMHO

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #15 – January 30, 2013, 01:10:16 pm

Our rig is a 2003 38' non tag model. The previous owner kept it in her garage when not in use. Home base has always been in Southern California, so no salted roads. I am always careful to not overfill the fresh water tank. I have examined the bulkheads and see no sign of separation or rust. I have not torque tested the bolts.

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #16 – January 30, 2013, 08:34:21 pm

1996 U270, owned at one time by a cowboy from Idaho that followed the rodeo circuit pulling a horse trailer. I would suspect it was driven in all sorts of weather on all sorts of roads. Had no separation but had 3 broken bolts on the back, all on the sidewalk side, and one on the front. Drilled new holes and installed new bolts with nuts, no more problems in the past two years.

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #17 – January 30, 2013, 09:18:52 pm

bulkhead issue is overplayed, mostly by those who have never been under a coach and seen the structure to understand the problem.

Mine has had a couple of bolts replaced and undercoating applied to seal. Interesting, of all the discussion of various levels of damage, including one or two significant repairs, nver heard anyone want to sell their FT or have any other brand of MH other than FT.

I suspect that the average repair across all the coaches built wouldn't reach $500 per coach, and few ever cost more than $1,000 to fix. Many on the forum have obviously effected their own repair, up to and including Don's "work of art" on his U270, and another older coach that was temporarily patched on the road driven home and then repaired by the owner. Neither of those folks want to sell their FT either......

One I didn't care for was done at FT where they forced the joint apart 3 inches to effect the repair, and "suddenly" the coach developed significant delamination problems, which the factory claimed couldn't have been caused by the inevitable distortion of that procedure......that one was probably the far end of expense and aggravation....

Brett Wolfe whose credentials are impeccable has also weighed in, to paraphrase "inspect, fix, move on". in the bulk of the cases, no big deal.

Bulkhead subject has had far more posts than it probably deserves......

I think I m sort of becoming a curmudgeon...

:-)

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #18 – January 31, 2013, 12:33:55 am

Just wanted to thank everyone for their votes and input. I was expecting one or many of you to take issue with this poll and slap me down - Newbe and all. Thank you for putting up with me.

This poll is not a scientific study but a random sample that might be an indicator as to the frequency of the problem based on the number of viewers of this poll, number of reported failures/repairs in this poll and the total number of forum members.

So here goes the results based on today's vote - It appears, if I have done the math correctly:

2199 members
631 views
15 failures/repairs
8 repairs - 40' length - greatest number of failures/repairs per length reported.

2.4% -total failure/repair rate based on reported failures/repairs in relationship to views.
.7% -total failure/repair rate based on reported failures/repairs in relationship to forum members.
29% -of the total membership viewed this topic.
53% -of failures/repairs for the length (40') in relationship to total number of failures/repairs reported.

Needless to say - FT has resolved this issue. For me it would be interesting to know when FT changed their manufacturing process and how they changed their process that eliminated this problem, however, ............

As stated by many of you - the bulkhead separation is only significant if it is NOT a point of inspection. For me - I just had to see the numbers. I am done with this issue.

Thanks again,

Scott

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #19 – January 31, 2013, 03:46:17 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – January 30, 2013, 09:18:52 pm

bulkhead issue is overplayed, mostly by those who have never been under a coach and seen the structure to understand the problem.

Expecially on other forums by persons who do not have a clue! They seem to want to play this up as a major fault of all Foretravels. A fault that should prevent one from considering a Foretravel purchase, when it isn't.

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #20 – January 31, 2013, 04:04:53 pm

Like the folks who talk down a Rolls Royce because it gets poor fuel mileage, there has to be a reason not to buy one ??
You gotta laugh
Dave M

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #21 – January 31, 2013, 04:09:03 pm

Quote from: PatC – January 31, 2013, 03:46:17 pm

Expecially on other forums by persons who do not have a clue! They seem to want to play this up as a major fault of all Foretravels. A fault that should prevent one from considering a Foretravel purchase, when it isn't.

That's okay! We would not want the demand to increase too much, otherwise I'll never be able to afford an upgrade to a newer unit. LOL

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #22 – January 31, 2013, 04:14:33 pm

+ 1 - I like your thinking.

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #23 – January 31, 2013, 07:31:37 pm

One of the many things that I like about this forum is the fact that owners freely share the problems they encounter AND the solutions to those problems. Just pointing out possible problem areas isn't all that helpful to someone who is looking. From what I've read here and other places, the bulkhead issue is something that needs to be checked prior to any purchase, and any necessary repairs taken care of at that time. I'm sure that somewhere there is a Foretravel that was neglected far too long and is now unsafe because of a bulkhead problem that could have been easily taken care of years earlier if only someone had paid attention. When our turn comes to be buyers that's one area that will definitely be checked.

Re: Bulkhead separation

Reply #24 – January 31, 2013, 08:49:20 pm

I didn't view the poll, didn't vote; I had both front and rear bulkhead repairs, 36' Grandvilla, '92 U-280.

Affiliate Notice