Installed Aero resonator

Topic: Installed Aero resonator (Read 5698 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #25 – March 20, 2013, 05:36:42 pm

That is funny. What questions did he ask?

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #26 – March 20, 2013, 05:50:43 pm

I know that when it comes time to replace the muffler in the coach that I would likely go with a resonator. But, I thought I read in a previous post that the Cummins 8.3 would not benefit from the resonator install. Am I recalling this fact accurately?

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #27 – March 20, 2013, 07:03:00 pm

Wonderful to hear that FOT might be now thinking to do the resonator instal.

-How long does the OEM Muffler last normally? Mileage or years or no clue?
-Are signs of deterioration at welds?
-Total cost of install/ parts and labor at FOT or home brew?

I believe in doing preventative work but choosing my priorities based on info I'm learning from knowledgeable input....so I'm at the right place

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #28 – March 20, 2013, 07:07:44 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – March 20, 2013, 05:50:43 pm

I know that when it comes time to replace the muffler in the coach that I would likely go with a resonator. But, I thought I read in a previous post that the Cummisn 8.3 would not benefit from the resonator install. Am I recalling this fact accurately?

Really, Peter?
Done correctly on the 8.3, 325 Cummins:
· Increased longevity of system by getting rid of dissimilar materials
· Faster Turbo spool up
· Higher boost pressure curve
· Lower exhaust temperature curve
· Less engine compartment heat radiation
· Increased access room on street side of engine
· End Cap no longer "beaten up" by exhaust tailpipe
· Reduced weight of system
· Increased coach performance ("seat of the pants" guesstimate)
· Maybe a little bit of mileage improvement, If you keep 'yer' foot out of it.
· A whole world of improvement in exhaust note and tone (healthy, mellow, lower note and no more wheezing sound)
Improved Quality: Somebody said, "Quality makes the heart soar, long after price is forgotten". Don't remember who...........

Who said no improvement?
Give me a few minutes and I'll come up with more!

Neal

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #29 – March 20, 2013, 07:14:06 pm

Quote from: MemoryRoads – March 20, 2013, 07:03:00 pm

Wonderful to hear that FOT might be now thinking to do the resonator instal.
-Total cost of install/ parts and labor at FOT or home brew?

I believe in doing preventative work but choosing my priorities based on info I'm learning from knowledgeable input....so I'm at the right place

I had my old muffler removed and replaced with an Aero AT5050XL 5 inch resonator on my Cummins M11 ISM 450. It opened up that space to finally give me access to my engine Batteries.

I decided this job was better left to someone else who would have the correct pipe and fittings. After deciding the trouble it would be for me to find the exact parts needed to replace the muffler. It is easily doable on your own.

I found the Aero AT5050XL on Ebay for $103.00 and took it to Freightliner in Ontario CA

They charged $703 Parts and Labor. Total cost for Replacement $806.00

The parts for my install is
- 10 inches of 5 inch stainless flex
-connected to a 90 degree 5 inch elbow
-connected to a 45 degree 5 inch elbow
-connected to a Aero 5050XL Resonator
-connected to a 5 inch chrome exhaust tip
-several new clamps and a couple of new hangers, which was used to reach the bracket that held the old muffler.
Replacing the Muffler with a Resonator

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #30 – March 20, 2013, 07:45:32 pm

Quote from: MemoryRoads – March 20, 2013, 07:03:00 pm

-How long does the OEM Muffler last normally? Mileage or years or no clue?
-Are signs of deterioration at welds?
-Total cost of install/ parts and labor at FOT or home brew?

OEM life will vary highly depending on corrosion elements encountered and use of the coach (Salts, Chlorides, Road residue (dust) from these, Water, Dissimilar materials used in fit up, heat generated in use under wet conditions, etc.,etc.)
My muffler welds were fine at 12 years, 147K mi. but the system clamps and tailpipe had been replaced multiple times (dissimilar materials subjected to high heat, corrosive contaminants and water)
The OEM muffler had a lot of soot packed into it. We cut it open, knocked the soot out and weighed it. The weight is in the slide show.
The total costs are also in the forum slide show, including FOT and NE local quotes.
http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=210
Addmittedly an 8.3 vs. M-11, but same ballpark based on Barry's notes
Mine is a little higher overall because I used 100% 304SS components, which I still feel very strongly about. That is the key to trouble free longevity, so why not do it correctly while you have the easy opportunity.
Neal

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #31 – March 20, 2013, 08:38:12 pm

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – March 20, 2013, 07:07:44 pm

Really, Peter?
Done correctly on the 8.3, 325 Cummins:
· Increased longevity of system by getting rid of dissimilar materials
· Faster Turbo spool up
· Higher boost pressure curve
· Lower exhaust temperature curve
· Less engine compartment heat radiation
· Increased access room on street side of engine
· End Cap no longer "beaten up" by exhaust tailpipe
· Reduced weight of system
· Increased coach performance ("seat of the pants" guesstimate)
· Maybe a little bit of mileage improvement, If you keep 'yer' foot out of it.
· A whole world of improvement in exhaust note and tone (healthy, mellow, lower note and no more wheezing sound)
Improved Quality: Somebody said, "Quality makes the heart soar, long after price is forgotten". Don't remember who...........

Who said no improvement?
Give me a few minutes and I'll come up with more!

Neal

Neal, Just my recollection of what I've read here. But, I do believe you since you've made the upgrade and have lived with it for a while now. Like I said, when I need to replace the muffler, resonator here we come! The sheer weight reduction and heat discipation alone are worth it to me.

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #32 – March 20, 2013, 10:59:52 pm

No brainer for me when I did iton our ISC. Heat loss was the first big thing we noticed, bed was now cold instead of hot (got hotter later!!!!)
Better performance and less cost than buying new muffler. Sounds nice. and temperature way less at manifold. I do not know about boost pressure gain as I had just repaired the CAC and that made a big difference and I have the Banks Stinger so my top end is 34lbs. Leaves all in my rear view mirror.
John H

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #33 – March 21, 2013, 09:23:42 am

Thanks for the details gentlemen! Impressive write-up and photos Neal. When the time comes, I'll have to have the work done, but now i know how the project 'should' completed and how to judge the quality of engineering considerations prior to choosing an installer. Ok, gonna put this modification way up on my list!

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #34 – March 21, 2013, 10:12:05 am

I would put it near the top. Wait, I did put it there. I know FT did not like it when Dave started this but it us a great upgrade.

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #35 – March 21, 2013, 05:50:16 pm

Quote from: John S – March 21, 2013, 10:12:05 am

I would put it near the top. Wait, I did put it there. I know FT did not like it when Dave started this but it us a great upgrade.

John,
It's interesting how Urban Legends get started and perpetuated.
Now it doesn't matter a "P-- Hole in the snow" who started what or when, but the legend that Dave M "started" this (resonator upgrade), is a tad incorrect. He has certainly been the most vocal Champion, after he made the change, and that is to be commended, as I will get to in a bit.
But, based on earlier FT owners having made the changeover in the late 2008/early 2009 timeframe, Gary Karnes, Wayne Macauley and I were all looking for input on muffler to resonator changeovers in the early to mid 2010 timeframe. We got mixed feedback, including some negative Forum feedback, regarding the change and whether or not it would be worthwhile. But we all went ahead on our own anyway, each for our own reasons.
I did my research, including talking to FOT, and started accumulating parts in November of 2008. Cummins was OK with it but FOT wanted no part of it. I ended up actually making my changeover in September of 2010 and have promoted making the change ever since.

Dave M made his changeover 8 or 9 months later associated with his ISM500 upgrade in the late April time frame of 2011

But, Gary Karnes and Wayne Macauley were done before either of us and several others were done before them. In the early days, things would have moved forward with much greater confidence if we'd had a Champion like Dave M, before taking the leap of faith that we were correct.
FWIW (About 1 P-- Hole in the snowbank),
Neal

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #36 – March 21, 2013, 08:31:20 pm

OK i can say junking the factory muff can add more pony's for the 8.3..
I took mine to a shop and had them cut and straight pipe.. Out the parking lot the power was in your face noticeable and it if was not for the extreme turbo noise I would of left it that way. After a 1200 mile trip up north I started to ""Get the look"" From people driving next to my exhaust pipe "" EAR PLUGS""" so I took it back and had a glasspack installed.
Even after the glasspack installation the extra power is still there...BTW once you drop the can your EGT's will fall=a cooler running Cummins=more Power...Can u Tell I love my 8.3??And yes the fuel plate is not stock

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #37 – March 22, 2013, 01:11:10 am

I like the (no-glass pack) Aero muffler (about $100) instead of a glass pack muffler. Aero brand is what many of us have installed. All resonator mufflers are not the same.

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #38 – March 31, 2013, 08:15:10 pm

Sleep has evaded me, thinking of all the info mentioned regarding some of these topics.

John S. You are to blame!

, no,.... really, thanks! Much better to be in the lead on a potential problem, than on the side of the road dealing with it?".

Bought the Resonator, and Summit wrap- 200' is on the way.

Question now is, and I have only found a bit of info on this within this site..
"Is it recommended to Also.. add a turbo blanket and from which manufacturer?" I have the M11 engine/2001

I've checked online for Cummins, Turbos, wraps, blankets etc. but not finding much.
Keep in mind that I'm only 'fair' at online searches, so... Is there a thread here I should be checking out or is it "Also" possible that a Turbo Blanket/Exhaust manifold Blanket, etc.etc. is really not worth the effort/time/$

?

thanks, ron

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #39 – March 31, 2013, 08:16:33 pm

Glad to be of assistance.

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #40 – March 31, 2013, 08:19:13 pm

Dang! that's 1.4 seconds John!!

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #41 – March 31, 2013, 10:49:58 pm

Turbo Blanket?
Hmm... I don't think I've heard of anyone putting one on an M11 engine. Would help efficiency in theory but doubt you would notice. Would help reduce under-bed temperatures but again don't know if you would notice. Would significantly minimize possible fire hazard of something contacting hot turbo but I don't think very many people worry about it and an extinguishing system would be more effective and less cost.
I installed one on my 6V92 that has a rear radiator to help with cooling: Engine Compartment insulation
Purchased from Advanced Thermal Products in 2004 for about $750

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #42 – April 01, 2013, 07:45:49 am

I have had the same effect of much lower temps in the batter compartment. Oh and Ron, it is not always that fast. I was off work and reading that thread when I saw it pop up.

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #43 – April 01, 2013, 10:05:41 am

John F
Not everyone can detect a change, some can detect a 50 hp increase and some could not detect a 300 hp increase.

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #44 – April 01, 2013, 05:16:31 pm

Thanks gentlemen! I'm guessing here, from these responses that no one has gone as far as installing a blanket on the turbo or manifold on the M11 engine. Also that if someone did, then the effort will produce cooler engine/battery and bed space temps...and a bit of extra power.

No negatives though and that was my real concern.(my diesel experience is limited to naturally aspirated/small diesels common in older, cruising sailboats and not turbo engines...) I'll check out prices and availability, but for now will just do the resonator project and the wrapping of it. Further wraps/blankets can be another project down the road.

Again, thanks for all responses.

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #45 – April 01, 2013, 06:07:28 pm

Quote from: MemoryRoads – April 01, 2013, 05:16:31 pm

Thanks gentlemen! I'm guessing here, from these responses that no one has gone as far as installing a blanket on the turbo or manifold on the M11 engine. Also that if someone did, then the effort will produce cooler engine/battery and bed space temps...and a bit of extra power.

I installed one the same time as Brian Frost at "Advanced Thermal Products".
I don't know if it was that or in combination with the Resonator install that now our bed is much cooler after a long drive. I am one of the ones that can not tell if it has more HP.
But I can say that my mpg has not improved and in fact has decreased since the resonator install. I have a separate trip odometer that was set after the install to track it. Go figure.

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #46 – April 01, 2013, 06:21:57 pm

Barry, your remarks about the fuel burn being more than origional would be expected by a driver who just drives, not paying any attention to the additional speed.

Great example: A MD with a ex Greyhound 6-71DDC, the engine was so far out of tune, he commented how he would get to the side of the road when a truck came up on him. After tuning the engine to the correct specs, he is out passing trucks, a new experience for him. His only comment was how much more fuel it burned,, GO FIGURE indeed

Ya just gotta laugh at some bright bulbs

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #47 – April 01, 2013, 06:30:25 pm

Barry, thanks.
From your photo, it looks like you got the turbo blanket and the nearby exhaust elbow blankets.. did you also go for the exhaust manifold blanket?

I can understand the turbo resonator mod, the resonator wrapping to keep heat away from A.C. components and also understand 'diminishing returns' on investments! Don't want to throw $ at things not needed or really un-important and certainly don't want to add anything that might cause a problem.

I drive very conservatively/not into the peddle, so anticipate no downgrade of MPG from the resonator upgrade( or muffler change out). Efficiency of, and longevity of systems are projects I think worth doing though. Again, thanks.

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #48 – April 01, 2013, 07:57:36 pm

Everyone must understand that having a resonator is not the end of the world unless you have a clue how your coach is running and performing, If your not into such things, yes the resonator is a total waste of money and frustration, just keep the old heat producing restrictive Cowl muffler system, FOT will love you.
Seems about 98% know there is an advantage to having and enjoying the resonator, the other 2% are clueless.

Dave M

Re: Installed Aero resonator

Reply #49 – April 01, 2013, 08:23:16 pm

Dave, I agree in principle but there are some who do not want the different sound. Other than sound, which I think is neat, there are no real drawbacks that I can tell. I felt the difference and also saw the numbers on Silverleaf but I am one who is always paying attention to even the little things when I drive. I also have about 300K miles in the coach and have a pretty good feeling for what it was and now what it is.

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