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Topic: NO START (Read 983 times) previous topic - next topic

NO START

When ign switch is turned to start position nothing happens.  All dash lights work, fan blows.  I can hear the ignition relay clicking in the front.  I can hear the relays clicking in the rear.  The remote start does not work either.  I have replaced the ignition, boost and remote solenoid.  I have new cranking batteries.  Everything worked great for a few days after I changed those parts till today.  When I tried to crank the engine all I heard was relays clicking then after a few tries the engine cranked up but only after a few second delay.  I let the engine warm up and re cranked a few times all seemed good.  I let the engine cool down and now no crank just clicking of the relays.  Is there another solenoid mounted on or near the starter that could cause this problem?  How hard is the starter to pull?
Terry
Terry and Cheryl Brown
1997 U295 36'
Build #5066
2006 Jeep TJ Rubicon
1993 BMW R100 GSPD

Re: NO START

Reply #1 –
To me it sounds like the starter solenoid is hanging up. Give the starter motor a good rap with a hammer . Had twin Yanmar 350 hp diesels in my offshore. It was a catamaran with small engine compartments. Any water in the bilge and the start solenoid hung up. A good rap with a hammer and they would work.Gam
joseph gambaro
1999 U295 36'

Re: NO START

Reply #2 –
are your battery terminals tight?

Re: NO START

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Wayne Macauley –
are your battery terminals tight?
A few years ago I had broken terminal connector that gave fits until I found the culprit & replaced it.  While I was at it I also replaced all the connectors.
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: NO START

Reply #4 –
Multiple clicking is usually a voltage supply problem at the starter. Would remove all connections at the battery posts and then where the cables connect at the terminals. Try a digital voltmeter at the battery posts when you try and crank and then at the cables themselves also when trying to crank. Check ground cable at both ends. You could run a set of jumpers from the negative terminal to another ground. Next would be the cable connection at the starter with a wrench to see if it may be loose but generally the problem is at the other end. .

After the solenoid clicks but not much action on the starter, put your fingers on the battery posts, terminals, cables where they connect. Any heat indicates high resistance and the source of the problem. If the engine turns very slowly accompanied by solenoid clicking, there will be high resistance somewhere and heat to help you find the location. Usually pretty easy cure. Think its a connection not the solenoids.

If you have a bad connection at one of the battery terminals (not the post itself), it can melt the lead the terminal is made out of easily. Have had this happen several times. Super clean connections mean few cranking problems.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: NO START

Reply #5 –
Also check for bad Ground, carbonized terminals, The back side of the post bolt where they are stacked together mine had a ceramic type black carbon causing many problems... 
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Gerry & Brenda
CHARLOTTE HARBOR, FL
1994 Grand Villa - # 4466
U300 Unihome - 6V92 Detroit
4 speed Allison - Jake Brake

Re: NO START

Reply #6 –
Pierce is right on. The same thing happened to me two weeks ago. Coach was starting fine one day and the next just a click at the starter. Thinking the starter might be the problem, I pulled it. Not fun and very heavy, needed a floor jack to get it lifted back in place. The starter spun over just fine when I had it on the ground. I cleaned all the leads to the starter and put them on good and tight. It started right up.

I just installed 3 new red top batteries last Sept. so I knew that wasen't the problem. Somewhere in the maze of cables one of them must have worked loose and that was the problem.
Ron & Donna Brunson
1997 U320 40 ft.
Honda CR-V toad
Tangent, Oregon
Build #5032

Re: NO START

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
Multiple clicking is usually a voltage supply problem at the starter. Would remove all connections at the battery posts and then where the cables connect at the terminals. Try a digital voltmeter at the battery posts when you try and crank and then at the cables themselves also when trying to crank. Check ground cable at both ends. You could run a set of jumpers from the negative terminal to another ground. Next would be the cable connection at the starter with a wrench to see if it may be loose but generally the problem is at the other end. .

After the solenoid clicks but not much action on the starter, put your fingers on the battery posts, terminals, cables where they connect. Any heat indicates high resistance and the source of the problem. If the engine turns very slowly accompanied by solenoid clicking, there will be high resistance somewhere and heat to help you find the location. Usually pretty easy cure. Think its a connection not the solenoids.

If you have a bad connection at one of the battery terminals (not the post itself), it can melt the lead the terminal is made out of easily. Have had this happen several times. Super clean connections mean few cranking problems.

Pierce



I turned all the coach lights on and tried to start the engine, all  lights remained very bright with no voltage drop on the dash volt meter.  Where is the starter solenoid located?  I have replaced all other solenoids in the circuit.
Terry and Cheryl Brown
1997 U295 36'
Build #5066
2006 Jeep TJ Rubicon
1993 BMW R100 GSPD

Re: NO START

Reply #8 –
Are you saying your ignition relay in the bottom of the big front breaker panel is clicking? That relay is closed when ignition key is on. You can manually bypass the key with a temp hot wire to the small terminal on the ignition relay/solenoid, when it should stop clicking unless the relay/solenoid is bad or if the voltage turning on the relay/solenoid is very low.

The forum has an earlier Barry & Cindy posting with all the different things in sequence that must happen for engine to start.

We recently had a similar problem and did all the things you mentioned including rebuilding starter & adding a 3rd red top start battery, but nothing worked until we installed a NEW Delco Remy starter. Our coach now starts better than new.

Re: NO START

Reply #9 –
Assuming you mean exterior lights that operate off the engine battery. The big starter solenoid bolts to the top of the starter motor on Detroits. Perhaps a member with your engine can verify where yours is.

With a starter mounted solenoid, to test it you just supply 12V to the smaller terminal next to the two large nuts with the battery cable under one and the other cable leading into the starter itself. I don't recommend jumping the two large terminals with a screwdriver or pair of pliers as there is a lot of amperage available here and burns, sparks, etc. can happen. Best to test the solenoid with a lead clipped on the small terminal and after you have climbed out from under, the other end touched to a 12V source like the battery. Be careful if you try and tighten either one of the big nuts on the solenoid unless the battery is disconnected. Too easy to touch ground or the other terminal with the wrench.

Good to make sure the chassis ground goes to the engine also.

If the solenoid is OK, then the starter itself is the next suspect. They do go out, especially if used a lot to try and start the rig in sub-freezing weather a lot where the starter is used for an extended period.

Have someone at an electrical shop or a mechanic with experience help you if you have not done this before.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: NO START

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Ronb –
Thinking the starter might be the problem, I pulled it. Not fun and very heavy, needed a floor jack to get it lifted back in place.

We used a strap around the starter and over the frame for a 2nd person to pull sideways to 'lift' the very heavy starter while I unbolted and bolted it back in place. I think starter weighed 55 pounds.

Re: NO START

Reply #11 –
Terry, sounds like the starter, but as others have said, cable connections both positive and negative can also be a problem even after the new starter is installed. Our ventage Foretravels while still great coaches do tend to get electrical gremlins due to 10-15 year old cables and connections. If you are not comfortable using a meter to check voltage drop and resistance, a truck electrical shop (that does starter and Alternator rebuilds) can usually find your problem quickly. Good luck
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: NO START

Reply #12 –
 Terry,
On 1998 8.3 mechanical Cummins, the starter solenoid is bolted to the starter barrel.
I second Pierce's guidance.
I had a starter ruined by Parliament, and it acted much as you have described.
The 8.3 mechanical's don't have fuel line air purge/filter priming setups.  Parliament, in Clearwater, ruined my starter during a routine oil/filter change by allowing fuel to siphon out of the lines, not filling the new filter with fuel and then excessively cranking the engine over the course of several hours (accompanied by much heckling, catcalls and loud, sarcastic mechanic comments about "Campers" without fuel/air purge setups.  They made it clear that Prevosts are far superior in their minds).  The mechanics and foreman wouldn't take my advice and I finally insisted that work stop until I could find Steve Mitchell.  I've know Steve (and Harvey) for years and he stayed with me, made them follow my direction and we got the coach started. The starter didn't bother until several days later when we were on the road. 

Shut the coach off.  An hour or two later, went to start and we had all normal electrical at dash, exterior lights, ABS firing,  etc.  but no response from the starter.  There was 12Vdc at the starter and, for unknown reasons, in ignition "on" position, at the starter solenoid (bolted to starter barrel case).  However, the 12Vdc at the (+) starter terminal and starter solenoid (small terminal) would go to near 0Vdc the instant that the ignition switch was turned from "on" to "start".  And the starter solenoid was obviously not shifting/engaging.  Cleaned and tightened all the connections that I could find and think of, all to no avail.  I eventually tried jumpering 12Vdc to the starter solenoid, from the engine battery (+), and found that would cause the solenoid to engage and start the coach.  After that, sometimes the coach would start normally and other times I had to jumper.  Did that all the way back to NH where my local Starter/Generator/Alternator Truck service shop diagnosed a severely overheated, essentially ruined starter.  New starter installation was beyond my ability (had my Cummins Service Center do it as one needed 12 point high impact sockets and, even after liberal liquid wrench, a HD air wrench to get the mounting bolts free, in a very awkward location).  All has been good ever since, and no cable connection issues were ever found associated with the starter solenoid failing to "fire".

No, Parliament never did anything to compensate me.  Their position was: "Can't be held responsible.  It was running fine when it left."
I've never been back to Parliament and even under new ownership/management, probably never will again, short of a dire emergency.  The same foreman/mechanic(s) might still be there.

Neal
 
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Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
'02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
'04 Gold Wing
'07 Featherlite 24'
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
MC #14494
Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten

Re: NO START

Reply #13 –
Quote from: CAPEHORN31 –
When ign switch is turned to start position nothing happens.  All dash lights work, fan blows.  I can hear the ignition relay clicking in the front.  I can hear the relays clicking in the rear.  The remote start does not work either.  I have replaced the ignition, boost and remote solenoid.  I have new cranking batteries.  Everything worked great for a few days after I changed those parts till today.  When I tried to crank the engine all I heard was relays clicking then after a few tries the engine cranked up but only after a few second delay.  I let the engine warm up and re cranked a few times all seemed good.  I let the engine cool down and now no crank just clicking of the relays.  Is there another solenoid mounted on or near the starter that could cause this problem?  How hard is the starter to pull?
Terry

I found a bad crimp connection on the 12vdc output from the aux start solenoid to the starter solenoid.  Fixed the wire crimp, reconnected and the engine cranked up ---all is well with the FT again.

Terry and Cheryl Brown
1997 U295 36'
Build #5066
2006 Jeep TJ Rubicon
1993 BMW R100 GSPD

Re: NO START

Reply #14 –
I'm not a big believer in crimp connections, especially when they are in a location where corrosion and vibration can occur. Hard to beat a rosin core solder job with shrink tubing to cover it.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: NO START

Reply #15 –
Crimping wire connectors can be done  hundred ways, only one is correct using the correct set of dies and proper method will make a correct crimp, there will not be an issue, I usually solder the terminal then use heat shrink to seal & protect it.
Very few do it correct.
MO
Dave M