Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

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Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

March 12, 2013, 05:10:06 pm

http://investing.quicken.com/public/view_headline.asp?symbol=CMI&documentKey=600-201303101100BIZWIRE_USPRX____BW5033-1

I thought this article may be of interest. Perhaps these drivetrains can be offered for motorhome use...with HD Allison Automatics, of course. The new technologies are enabling much needed fuel economy improvements. Great!

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #1 – March 12, 2013, 07:28:54 pm

Peter, I would tend to agree, Cummins today seems to be way ahead of other engine companies, very up on the tech side. For an American producer.

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #2 – March 12, 2013, 08:35:31 pm

Interesting, I wonder if FT would ever change. Not for the milage but the way I read it they can all be serviced at Cummins. That means one less place we have to worry about finding.

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #3 – March 12, 2013, 09:11:36 pm

Considering the choices for large enough engines for our coaches, Cummins, then what, Cat is gone, DDC as we knew it is gone, Navistar is not a player, nor Mack/Renault, heck even Prevost is a Volvo Co now and even Newell is using Cummins I think, so jumping ship for Foretravel at this point I feel would not be a real wise move with all the
re-engineersing and component supply and testing to see if compatible with the Foretravel Chassis seems a long way off to me. Read as big money to make a major change unless they are already working on something.
I would never try to out guess any outfit. Bean counters lose their heads sometimes.

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #4 – March 13, 2013, 07:41:47 am

:l don't think cat is a player as they have dropped out of the heavy truck power plant market.

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #5 – March 13, 2013, 03:03:58 pm

I was saying get a cummins and an Eaton instead of Allison.

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #6 – March 13, 2013, 04:29:14 pm

I don't you will ever see one of these in a MH, it still has a clutch to start and stop with.

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #7 – March 13, 2013, 04:35:21 pm

Yeah...There's a bit more design and development work to get the improved efficiency when mated to an Allison automatic. But, that's food for thought for the Foretravel engineers.

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #8 – March 13, 2013, 07:16:38 pm

Bill, You think some of us old folks might have problems with a third pedal on the floor ?

I think it might be fun to have a clutch.
Gary B

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #9 – March 13, 2013, 10:16:40 pm

I put a 7.3 turbo and a Getrag 5 speed manual in my SOB (I still have it). If I had more time (and younger), I'd stick a Roadranger in the U300. By a huge margin, manual transmissions are the transmission of choice for motorcycles, cars, buses and trucks around the world. Even with lockup, automatics can't compete with manual transmissions. Manuals are more efficient, weigh less and require a lot less maintenance plus cost less. In most countries in Europe, you can only get a restricted drivers license if you can't drive a stick shift.

We love our Toyota RAV4 but the 2005 model was the last with manual transmission in the U.S. The rest of the world gets a 6 speed and a choice of two turbo diesel engines (zero diesels offered here). We would have to get it delivered to American Samoa and then ship it home to be legal.

Pierce

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #10 – March 14, 2013, 12:45:36 am

Pierce, I am with you on the manual gear box., I put a 10 speed OD Road Ranger in the MCI conversion, used the Kenworth cable shifting system, worked great/smooth. Like you I beleive, with a welder, lathe, mill, drill, hack saw and grinder, you can make anything work & fit nicely.

Why the 12V-71, was a joy to zoom around with.
Dave M

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #11 – March 14, 2013, 08:46:24 am

Allison could have the best of both worlds with the TC10, 10 speed auto shift twin shaft gear box with torque converter, the lock up occurs at 4mph,is ecm controlled for smooth shifts.

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #12 – March 14, 2013, 12:28:51 pm

Bill,

It looks good and is probably the future of transmissions in RVs and trucks. Not light at just over 1000 lbs but will handle 600 hp so that's a reasonable weight. I like the really close ratios with fuel control so no momentary loads on the driveline. Looks pretty idiot proof too. 500,000 mile oil changes are not bad either. At $3-4K, it would be a bargain but bet it will be twice that.

Link: Allison debuts radically different 10-speed automatic transmission | Commercial

Pierce

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #13 – March 14, 2013, 12:51:24 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – March 14, 2013, 12:28:51 pm

Bill,

It looks good and is probably the future of transmissions in RVs and trucks. Not light at just over 1000 lbs but will handle 600 hp so that's a reasonable weight. I like the really close ratios with fuel control so no momentary loads on the driveline. Looks pretty idiot proof too. 500,000 mile oil changes are not bad either. At $3-4K, it would be a bargain but bet it will be twice that.

Link: Allison debuts radically different 10-speed automatic transmission | Commercial

Pierce

Man! I really like the thought of that new Allison transmission. I also like the fact that our engineers and technocrats are pursuing higher fuel efficiency through technology As it should be.

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #14 – March 14, 2013, 01:10:47 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – March 14, 2013, 12:51:24 pm

Man! I really like the thought of that new Allison transmission. I also like the fact that our engineers and technocrats are pursuing higher fuel efficiency through technology As it should be.

Kind of looks like the main thrust is going to be in the direction of CNG. The distribution system, given our network of pipelines, is solvable. Engines run well on it, just need to optimize onboard fuel storage. I'm all for technology too, but am cautious. Witness the newer engines that consistently get less fuel mileage than the old Cummins 6b mechanical vs. 6b electronic is one example. The old diesel VW rabbit that gets better mileage than a Prius. Emission systems that cause you to burn more fuel so you can pollute less per gallon, I've never figured out the rationale for that. So many of these decisions are driven by economic/political rather than technical forces.

Of course, if and when CNG is common for vehicle use it'll be priced by the BTU content as gasoline and diesel are now. It all boils down to a favorite bumper sticker often seen in Houston. "If you don't have an oil well-get one."

Chuck

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #15 – March 14, 2013, 01:16:20 pm

Quote from: Gary Bouland – March 13, 2013, 07:16:38 pm

Bill, You think some of us old folks might have problems with a third pedal on the floor ?
I think it might be fun to have a clutch.
Gary B

Gary, I gave up the clutch when I sold my 67 Camaro with a 4X3 small block with a 4800lb. L88 clutch and a Doug Nash 5 speed pushing 450HP.

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #16 – March 14, 2013, 02:55:13 pm

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – March 14, 2013, 01:10:47 pm

Of course, if and when CNG is common for vehicle use it'll be priced by the BTU content as gasoline and diesel are now. It all boils down to a favorite bumper sticker often seen in Houston. "If you don't have an oil well-get one."

Chuck

Oh yeah Chuck....That's called capitalism at its best...more profit is good!

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #17 – March 14, 2013, 07:02:38 pm

More real progress stuff...Here's a follow-up to the story in today's news:

http://www.cummins.com/cmi/displayMoreNewsAction.do?strTitle=%27SuperTruck%27+Yields+54+Percent+Increase+in+Fuel+Economy&strNewsSummary=%27SuperTruck%27+Yields+54+Percent+Increase+in+Fuel+Economy&strId=%2Ftemplatedata%2FContent%2FCumminsNews%2Fdata%2Fen%2FInvestorsAndMedia%2FPressReleases%2F2013%2FMarch_14_SuperTruck&dtPublishDate=2013-03-14+09%3A00%3A00.0

COLUMBUS, Ind.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Mar. 14, 2013-- Cummins Inc. (NYSE: CMI) and Peterbilt Motors Company, a division of PACCAR (Nasdaq: PCAR), released test results today showing their demonstration tractor-trailer achieved a 54 percent increase in fuel economy, averaging nearly 10 miles per gallon (mpg) under real world driving conditions.
The "SuperTruck" developed by the two companies features a higher-efficiency engine and an aerodynamic tractor-trailer that significantly reduces drag. The truck also includes a system that converts exhaust heat into power delivered to the crankshaft, electronic controls that use route information to optimize fuel use, tires with lower rolling resistance and lighter-weight material throughout.
The Class 8 Peterbilt 587 powered by a Cummins ISX15 engine averaged 9.9 mpg during testing last fall on U.S. Route 287 between Fort Worth and Vernon, Texas. The testing was conducted over 11 runs meeting SAE International test standards along a 312-mile route. The tractor-trailer had a combined gross weight of 65,000 lbs.
Today's long-haul trucks typically achieve between 5.5 and 6.5 mpg. The 54 percent increase in fuel economy would save about $25,000 annually based on today's diesel fuel prices for a long-haul truck traveling 120,000 miles per year. It would also translate into a 35 percent reduction in annual greenhouse gases per truck.
The potential savings in fuel and greenhouse gases are enormous, with about 2 million registered tractor-trailers on U.S. roads today, according to The American Trucking Association.
In addition to the fuel economy improvements, the truck also demonstrated a 61 percent improvement in freight efficiency during testing compared to a baseline truck driving the same route. That significantly exceeded the 50 percent SuperTruck program goal set by the U.S. Department of Energy. Freight efficiency is an important metric in the transportation industry that is based on payload weight and fuel efficiency expressed in ton-miles per gallon.
"Many of the technologies we are testing on the engine and truck will be integral parts of the trucks of tomorrow," said David Koeberlein, Principal Investigator for the SuperTruck program at Cummins. "We are focused on developing innovations that meet and exceed the needs of our customers, while helping to create a cleaner, healthier and safer environment."
Cummins personnel have been focused on the engine and its integration with the powertrain. They have been working with several other companies and research institutions to develop numerous changes in the combustion system as well as advances to reduce internal friction and so-called "parasitic power" – excess power the engine needs to run such things as lube and coolant pumps and air compressors.
In addition to the truck's exterior, Peterbilt and its partners have been working on improvements in the drivetrain, the idle management system, weight reduction and vehicle climate control. Eaton's advanced transmission facilitates further engine downspeeding for additional fuel economy benefits.
"Aerodynamics has been a significant contributor to the efficiency gains," said Scott Newhouse, Senior Assistant Chief Engineer of Product Development at Peterbilt. "We are very pleased with what our team has been able to accomplish using a comprehensive tractor-trailer approach."
Cummins is a prime contractor leading one of four vertical teams under the Department of Energy's SuperTruck project. SuperTruck is one of several initiatives under the 21st Century Truck Partnership, which is a public-private partnership founded to further stimulate innovation in the trucking industry through the sponsoring government agencies, companies, national laboratories and universities.
Cummins, Peterbilt and their program partners will have invested $38.8 million in private funds over the four-year life of their SuperTruck program, which started in 2010, with critical support coming through awarded matching grants from the Department of Energy's Vehicle Technologies Program.
Testing will continue in 2013 on a new Peterbilt 579 that Cummins and Peterbilt are confident will take what has been achieved so far to even higher levels. The testing will address use of the tractor-trailer over a 24-hour period; including periods when drivers are at rest but still need power for such things as air conditioning and small appliances.
About Cummins
Cummins Inc., a global power leader, is a corporation of complementary business units that design, manufacture, distribute and service diesel and natural gas engines and related technologies, including fuel systems, controls, air handling, filtration, emission solutions and electrical power generation systems. Headquartered in Columbus, Indiana, (USA) Cummins currently employs approximately 44,000 people worldwide and serves customers in approximately 190 countries and territories through a network of approximately 600 company-owned and independent distributor locations and approximately 6,500 dealer locations. Cummins earned $1.66 billion on sales of $17.3 billion in 2012. Press releases can be found on the Web at http://www.cummins.com. Follow Cummins on Twitter at @Cummins and on YouTube at CumminsInc.

Source: Cummins Inc.
Cummins Inc.
Jon Mills, Director – External Communications, 317-658-4540

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #18 – March 14, 2013, 11:00:03 pm

Pierce,

Have you seen the diesel adapter kit from Acme adapters ? ACME ADAPTERS Suzuki Samurai Turbo Diesel I'm thinking of doing this to my Zuki if I can find a used engine cheap enough or I blow my motor up. The advantage is better mileage and lots more low end torque.

If you have the 22R style transmission in your Rav4 and the room under the hood it might be possible to swap the engine for a VW TDI!

Jerry

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #19 – March 15, 2013, 09:50:43 am

I have a friend that put a Duetz air cooled diesel in his Jeep Pickup, looks strange with no radiator but works for him.
Gary B

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #20 – March 15, 2013, 10:53:19 am

Jerry,

I have owned a couple of VW diesels. They worked well and got about 44 mpg at best. Am sure the new Jetta is cleaner aero wise and with the turbo, will approach 50 mpg. The problem with an engine swap is all the electronics that go with them. The 7.3 turbo I installed was a mechanical engine with an aftermarket company remanufacturing and adding the turbo. It only had a half dozen wires or so and the glowplug timer was even mounted on the back of the engine. The new engines are all fly by wire so you have to buy or make up new wiring harnesses. With the price of the new ECUs, you don't won't to make a wiring mistake.

I sold a lot of MBZ products and found their reliability to be very good but have noticed in the later years that all German cars have really gone downhill with lots of problems in almost every category. Our 2005 Toyota RAV4 on the other hand has been 100% trouble free with almost 140K on it now. It does everything extremely well in snow, off road and even pulled a 7700 lb horse trailer full of books, household items from California to Ohio several months ago. Almost had to go into first at the top of Eisenhower summit on I-70. Not bad for an under 3000 lb vehicle. Mileage went from 27 down to 12 for the trip east. Temperature gauge never moved off the thermostat. Hate to say it but the RAV is the best vehicle I have ever owned.

So, for an older vehicle, swaps will still work but it's still a lot of work getting everything just right and not having a few problems now and again. Have never used the Acme adapter company but have used Kennedy Adapters on a Nissan V6 into a Vanagon. In some states, the replacement engine has to be the same year or later. I had to go to a California State referee when I made the diesel conversion on the SOB.

You can bring a car from any U.S. possession like Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico into the states without any kind of EPA/DOT problem, not even any customs duty. There is a Toyota dealer (google) in American Samoa that sells the vehicles and I know others that have shipped a car home. Naturally, you could just drive across the border from Mexico with Mexican plates but if you got caught, you could lose the car.

I hope Ford does well on their new Focus/Fiesta line even though they make diesels here but export all of them. They look good, doors shut without sounding cheap, etc. but it's going to take a lot for them or anyone else to challenge Toyota for quality and reliability.

Pierce

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #21 – March 15, 2013, 12:09:05 pm

[Snip: I hope Ford does well on their new Focus/Fiesta line even though they make diesels here but export all of them.]

I contacted Ford regards their diesel Fiesta a bit over a year ago, and was told "the engine is manufactured in the UK and even if they wanted to deal with the mountain of U.S. emissions requirements, it would not be cost-effective to sell their line of diesel vehicles in the U.S."

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #22 – March 15, 2013, 02:46:30 pm

VW, Mercedes, BMW have been importing diesels for years. Fiat-Chrysler are about to start installing a Fiat diesel as an option in their half ton pickups and Mazda is beginning to offer a diesel here.

Ford is just giving you a generic corporate excuse. So easy to blame the EPA or DOT. It's just a statement that reflects their profit first, customer last attitude. I exported MBZ products from Germany for years so understand their position exactly. Why is a Mercedes purchased abroad guaranteed throughout the world but not here? Why can't you order the engine, accessories that you want like the rest of the world can instead of what they want to put on the car for the U.S. market? Buying a car in Europe is a totally different experience than here. When a European Mercedes showed up in the U.S., the dealership that sold the car in Germany had to pay the first dealership the car went to in the states, even for a simple oil change, triple the sales commission. They are desperate to control the market under their terms. They will only change when forced to by the competition.

I'm a huge Apple fan but cheer Androids on every chance I get as Apple will only lower prices, offer a better product when pressured to by the competition.

Pierce

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #23 – March 15, 2013, 04:14:02 pm

There's enough room for everybody in the global marketplace; whether it's iPhones/Androids; diesels/gas. I'm excited about Chrysler's entry with the Fiat diesels in RAM's & in 2014 the Jeep Grand Wagoneer. I also understand that if all goes well for the RAM & Grand Wagoneer, that the Jeep Wrangler will get the diesel starting in 2015...Yeepee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's Ford's decision to stay away from the diesel market in the North America...for whatever the reason!

Re: Cummins & Eaton Joint HD Truck Drivetrain

Reply #24 – March 15, 2013, 05:20:43 pm

[Snip: So easy to blame the EPA or DOT.]

Maybe I've missed something along the way, but it's my understanding EPA / DOT regulations requires every recent model-year diesel powered vehicle to also include tank that holds a chemical called D.E.F. or "Diesel Exhaust Fluid" - I believe I read D.E.F. is commonly "Urea" which is injected directly into the muffler of diesel engines and chemically aids in burning-off excess carbon content. (Excepting Cummins powered Dodge Pickups, which apparently don't need the help; don't know the details here, either.) This "environmental saver" is called the Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) system, and I tend to believe such EPA/DOT requirements are part of some manufacturer's decisions not to market diesels in the USA.

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