Hydraulic pump on last leg

Topic: Hydraulic pump on last leg (Read 4142 times) previous topic - next topic

Hydraulic pump on last leg

March 19, 2013, 01:09:36 pm

My hydraulic pump has had a slow leak for quite a while. I asked my mechanic at Stewart & Stevenson about it and he said it was fine just add 10-40w when needed. That was about a year and a half ago. Well now the slow leak has turn into a large leak and pondering my course of action.

The pump has 4 connections on it. 2 on top and 2 on bottom. I think that means mine is the one that powers the power steering and the radiator fan (I only have one fan on my radiator). I'd like to pull it and take it to a couple of hydraulic shops to see about repair. Has anyone done this? Things I'd like to know.

How much work is it?

Do I drain the oil first? If so how?

When I disconnect the hoses does it drain the reservoir or only what's in the hoses?

How much fluid are we talking about? Can I just unhook the hose and then let drain in a 5 gallon bucket?

Any advise on where to find a good hydraulic shop in north Florida?

[/list]

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #1 – March 19, 2013, 02:42:31 pm

Not sure if yours is the same as mine but a couple of years ago mine started leaking while on a trip. I was near Tallahassee at the time and pulled into a CAT dealer (Ringpower). Found out on this board that finding a direct replacement was not going to happen. Called FOT and they said my pump had an internal pressure relief valve and was no longer available. They sent a replacement along with the hoses and external pressure relief valve with instructions for the tech. As you are not stranded, you probably could take it off and have a hydraulic pump shop rebuild it for you. I don't think mine is for anything other than the fan (and running on transmission fluid instead of oil) so perhaps you have a different pump.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #2 – March 19, 2013, 04:03:38 pm

You may have a different hydraulic pump than is in my U-280; however, mine also powers the radiator fan pump and the power steering through two separate oil reservoirs. Anyway, my pump begain leaking a couple years ago; the local diesel mechanic was sure that it could be re-built, so he contacted his pump specialists in Houston. After getting all of the information (model, serial no. etc.) they said it couldn't be re-built. However a new pump was less than $400 (supplied from Houston). FOT wanted more than twice that amount. So far the new one is fine.

If you don't plug the hoses, the reservoir will drain and you will lose oil from the hoses. We had to replace several gallons of Del 400 15W-40 upon replacing the hydraulic pump.

If you should have issues with the hydraulic fan pump, that is a "horse of a different color". FOT stopped carrying the orginal hyd. fan pump; their replacement is entirely different and requires a total rebuild of the brackets that hold the fan pump. It was a real PITA.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #3 – March 19, 2013, 04:33:57 pm

Ken, Not sure if our pumps are similar. Mine leaked and I took it to a hydraulic shop, he removed the seal by drilling small holes in it and inserted a dry wall nail. A slap hammer was then used to yank the seal out. If he had not had to have the seal to get the replacement number this would have been a one hour job. New seal was put in next day and has not leaked since. Did not lose enough fluid that I had to add any.
Gary B

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #4 – March 19, 2013, 04:35:46 pm

Hardest part for me was getting the pulley off. Once off, there are 2 bolts holding the pump on. I drained all the oil by disconnecting the hoses at the pump into a clean 5 gallon bucket ( my sump holds 4 ) and used it again by pouring it back in through a paint filter. Best course for me was to replace the pump with a new one. Hoses only connect back up one way. I also changed the filters in the sump, what the heck. Good luck.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #5 – March 19, 2013, 04:44:19 pm

Quote from: kenhat – March 19, 2013, 01:09:36 pm

My hydraulic pump has had a slow leak for quite a while. I asked my mechanic at Stewart & Stevenson about it and he said it was fine just add 10-40w when needed. That was about a year and a half ago. Well now the slow leak has turn into a large leak and pondering my course of action.

The pump has 4 connections on it. 2 on top and 2 on bottom. I think that means mine is the one that powers the power steering and the radiator fan (I only have one fan on my radiator). I'd like to pull it and take it to a couple of hydraulic shops to see about repair. Has anyone done this? Things I'd like to know.

How much work is it?
Do I drain the oil first? If so how?
When I disconnect the hoses does it drain the reservoir or only what's in the hoses?
How much fluid are we talking about? Can I just unhook the hose and then let drain in a 5 gallon bucket?
Any advise on where to find a good hydraulic shop in north Florida?
[/list]

see ya
ken

If you can get your rig where you can get under it, it should only take 10 minutes or so if you have the right wrenches to do it with. Like Don said, you will have to plug the lines or you will have a big mess on your hands.

Age has caught up with the seals. Check to see the maker/model of your pump and call around to see who can do it, etc. They will probably just check internal pump clearances, replace the bearings and seals and it will be ready to go. Any hydraulic shop should have plugs for the end of the hoses when you remove them but good to have a bucket ready in case it takes a few seconds. Overhauling one of these pumps is not a big deal.

Start with the closest NAPA store with a truck parts counter. They should be able to refer you to someone in the area. Google online with your pump info also.

As far as parts go, bearings are bearings and probably the same for the seals also. If you have to change pumps, the bolt pattern along with the GPM (gallons per minute) and RPM needed should find an inexpensive replacement.

Foretravel must have installed 2 fans on the next year model to try and improve the cooling.

Pierce

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #6 – March 20, 2013, 10:52:37 am

Quote from: Don Hay – March 19, 2013, 04:03:38 pm

You may have a different hydraulic pump than is in my U-280; however, mine also powers the radiator fan pump and the power steering through two separate oil reservoirs. Anyway, my pump begain leaking a couple years ago; the local diesel mechanic was sure that it could be re-built, so he contacted his pump specialists in Houston. After getting all of the information (model, serial no. etc.) they said it couldn't be re-built. However a new pump was less than $400 (supplied from Houston). FOT wanted more than twice that amount.

Ours also powers both the fan and power steering, it failed last spring and I had it rebuilt in Alamogordo NM. FOT quoted around a thousand dollars for a new pump. Don't remember the rebuild cost.

Roland

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #7 – March 20, 2013, 11:12:57 am

Quote from: Roland Begin – March 20, 2013, 10:52:37 am

Ours also powers both the fan and power steering, it failed last spring and I had it rebuilt in Alamogordo NM. FOT quoted around a thousand dollars for a new pump. Don't remember the rebuild cost.

The forum does

Fan Pump

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #8 – March 20, 2013, 11:39:50 am

Quote from: Michelle – March 20, 2013, 11:12:57 am

The forum does

Fan Pump

Michelle is sort of like the "Great Oz", all knowing and all search engine powered! We are oh so lucky to have her talents and time on the forum.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #9 – March 20, 2013, 11:47:01 am

Michelle, you are amazing.....now why didn't I think of looking back at my own post?

Roland

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #10 – March 20, 2013, 01:15:08 pm

Ken,

My coach is identical to Pierce's and has both a hydraulic fan pump and a power steering pump. The PO (thank goodness) had them both replaced in 2007 and I found copies of the repair bills. Along with a new hyd pump with both hoses and fittings, both fan motor seal kits were installed. Hyd oil 15-40 was replaced along with 2 belts. Parts came to about $800 (pump was $508) and 16 hrs labor for $1040. Grand total over $1800. The bill from a Ford dealer for the power steering pump replacement was $1300. Ouch!

Hope you can get by cheaper by rebuilding the pump and doing any of the work yourself. You might want to look at the hoses and fan motor while you're at it as they might need repair also. Of course you have to think about warranties if someone else does the work and you have to pay a much higher price.

Good luck,

Jerry

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #11 – March 20, 2013, 01:30:53 pm

I should have added that I have seen people insert a thin metal sleeve over the shaft. It increases the diameter and will make the old seal seal.

Also a possibility of doing it in place with the pulley off. Drill a small hole in the seal, use a $1.99 body work slide hammer with a screw attached and yank the old one off. Easy to fit a replacement then. Doubtful anything is really wrong with the pump, just a tired seal.

Pierce

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #12 – March 20, 2013, 01:57:05 pm

Speedi-sleeves from .5" to 8" shaft diameters and they work great.Gam

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #13 – March 20, 2013, 05:45:09 pm

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys. I think I'll go with cleaning everything up, tighten hoses, and add stop leak. Hopefully that will at least slow it down. If that stops it I'll let it be but if not when I get somewhere I know I'll be for a while I'll try the Speedi-Sleeves (They look really cool!). I'll probably try the to pull the old seal with a body puller as Pierce suggests. I might be able to do all this without even pulling the pump! I may try to do a redneck drip catcher with a rubbermaid tub and a crap load of tie wraps to keep the mess down. If I do I'll post photos.

If all goes sideways I'll just pull the pump and take to a rebuilder.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #14 – March 20, 2013, 05:47:53 pm

Oh yeah karma for everybody! Thanks again.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #15 – March 27, 2013, 07:21:45 pm

Thought I'd follow up on my hydraulic pump.

Loaded up on hydraulic stop leak in Crystal River, FL. Drove a 125 miles to Crescent City, FL. When we pulled in the car was covered with hydraulic oil and oil was pooling on the rear bumper of the coach.

Cleaned everything up and refilled my hydraulic reservoir. Next day drove to Stage Coach RV park in St. Augustine, FL and meet up with Kent Speers. Coach and car again covered in oil. Cleaned up the coach and car. Again!

Next day decided pump was coming off. Disconnected the radiator & power steering hoses from the pump and let drain into a 5 gal bucket. After much grunting and cussing (and Kent watching and providing encouragement and a giant crescent wrench) had the pump out and in my hand. Started calling around for a hydraulic shop to repair. First 2 places I called never heard of a John Barnes pump and didn't know when they could get it done. The third P & H Hydraulic Service out of Jacksonville, FL said yeah they could fix it. Ask when they could work on it and they said bring it in tomorrow. Asked how long they would need it and they said about an hour!

Drove up the next morning with Kent riding along keeping me company and arrived at the shop at 8:00am. Dropped the pump off and Kent and I went for breakfast. As we where leaving the diner my phone rang. It was the shop calling saying they where done. $65 for one hour labor and didn't charge for the seal. They also cleaned about a 1/2" of oil and dirt off the entire exterior of the pump. I am one happy guy. I haven't installed the pump yet but hoping the seal is all it needed. My radiator fan has a leak too so I'm thinking since I have the system drained I might as well pull it and take it in. We'll see how much energy I have tomorrow.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #16 – March 27, 2013, 08:31:12 pm

Energy (source )

Spend the evening listening to ( and capture hot air ) Kent.

Hot air= energy.

You will have plenty ( energy ) to do the job.

I really think you are a "doer" to have pulled and replace the Hyd pump

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #17 – March 27, 2013, 08:34:43 pm

Great job Ken, seems like the worst part of any repair is first contemplating how bad it will be and second getting in the grease and dirt to do it.
Gary B

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #18 – March 27, 2013, 09:25:33 pm

Have to say I've got a smile on my face. Hope this does the job but will be surprised if it doesn't. Not in the mood to have egg on my face. Wonder how many people have paid a grand or more for a seal. Reminds me of a joke but not the kind to share on the forum.

Good for you,

Pierce

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #19 – March 28, 2013, 05:30:50 pm

Mine was a Barnes Haldex. When the seal was replaced, I put it back on and it leaked worse. Foretravel told me that particular pump was not worth doing the seal in but would sell me another seal if I wanted. I replaced the pump instead and now sleep better at night.

Tell Kent I said hello.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #20 – March 28, 2013, 08:02:07 pm

Quote from: Twig – March 28, 2013, 05:30:50 pm

Mine was a Barnes Haldex. When the seal was replaced, I put it back on and it leaked worse. Foretravel told me that particular pump was not worth doing the seal in but would sell me another seal if I wanted. I replaced the pump instead and now sleep better at night.

Tell Kent I said hello.

Hey Twig, Howdy to you. Sorry we missed you if you were at Quatzsite this year. We have been forced to the east coast being on Gran Parent duty this winter. Anxious to get back out west though.

It sure has been fun watching someone else do all of the work. Ken is a go getter. I did offer copious amounts of assistance by handing him a wrench or two. The pump is back on now but he decided to have the fan motor overhauled too so we won't be starting the engine for a couple of days. It was my understanding that the Hydraulic Place tested the pump before giving it back to Ken so I am confident that it will work fine. These guys really appear to know what they are doing. Been in business doing hydraulic work for 40 plus years. I guess time will tell.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #21 – March 28, 2013, 08:51:36 pm

Kent the shop didn't "test" the pump just replaced the seal. So we won't know if any fixin' was done until we start it up. Hopefully we can do that tomorrow afternoon.

Thought I'd post some pics... It was a little dirty under the coach! That used to be my favorite Poison Spider shirt.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #22 – March 29, 2013, 09:20:33 am

Quote from: kenhat – March 28, 2013, 08:51:36 pm

Kent the shop didn't "test" the pump just replaced the seal. So we won't know if any fixin' was done until we start it up. Hopefully we can do that tomorrow afternoon.

Thought I'd post some pics... It was a little dirty under the coach! That used to be my favorite Poison Spider shirt.

see ya
ken

Anxiously awaiting the outcome of this one!

Hey Ken, is that Poison Spider in Moab? Either the trail or the bike shop? One of my favorite trails!

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #23 – March 29, 2013, 06:28:09 pm

Ken ... you look like a Tide commercial!

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #24 – March 30, 2013, 09:30:34 am

Got everything back in yesterday. Just need to add oil, make one last check of all connections, make sure the pump pulley is aligned with the drive pulley, put the belt back on and fire it up! Kent suggested I use my old 6 rib belt instead of risking my expensive 8 rib belt when I start it up. I think I'll do that. If everything looks good I'll then trade out the belt for the 8 rib. So despite what most of you have said Kent can be helpful.

I opened up my hydraulic oil reservoirs and found that the power steering didn't have a filter? Anyone know if these are supposed to have one? The radiator reservoir had a huge one! (see picture). It looks like it's 3 separate filters but it's really 2. The bottom 2 are fastened together and I could not get them apart. Could not find a part number on any of them so took to NAPA to see if they could match up with any filters they had on hand. No luck there. Anybody know what the part number are? The smaller one is 5" tall and 4" around and the other is 10" x 4". I could just stack 3 of the 5" tall ones together instead of going with the 10" + 5". I've put the original ones back in and will probably trade out once I find a replacement.

Does anyone know if the pump needs to be primed? I plan on rotating the pump by hand after I have oil in. Is that enough?

In the heat if the moment I didn't get any pictures of the radiator fan assembly and it's too cramped in the engine compartment to get a shot so you will have to just use your imagination.

Attached a couple of more pictures. And yes I was equally dirty yesterday as I was the day before so just refer back to the earlier pictures.

see ya
ken

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