Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Topic: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS (Read 1526 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #25 – April 22, 2013, 12:43:42 pm

One way of inflating a flat tire that won't take air is to remove the Schrader valve(s) and hit it with the highest pressure air that you can. This will sometimes seat the bead. Then replace the valve and air up. The ether trick works as well if rather dramatically.

My way would be to call Coach-Net!

Keith

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #26 – April 22, 2013, 01:16:26 pm

Thank you all folks. Mistery solved. Apparently I'm not a very good "thumper". I could have sworn that the sound eminating from the inside dually was much "duller" than the outside tire. Removed the valve extension, measured air...88 psi...Bad valve extension. I'm good to go for now w/o the valve extension.

Ordered 2 of the 8" valves, and will have all 6 of the 10 years old, still look like new tires replaced as soon as I can get arrangements made after Cummins is done this week.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #27 – April 22, 2013, 01:43:08 pm

@Peter Did the extension show any signs of cracking or wear? If so pictures might help others. Also wish I'd known that trick when mine went down. I would not have driven to the tire store with my flat. It still worries me that I may have done some internal damage to the outside tire on that short trip. So far 9000 miles later no problem. Maybe that's why I had so much trouble with my hydraulic pump. I used up all my karma points on the tire.

see ya
ken

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #28 – April 22, 2013, 01:53:31 pm

@ Ken & Dave M., will post pictures later. Will wrestle with the tire dealer to figure out what to do to correctly install new 8" stems. I do understand the isssue with the rubber centering donut. Donno that a picture will reveal the correct "bend to the valve stem though.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #29 – April 22, 2013, 02:06:58 pm

Search "rim scuffing" on this forum, found the picture how it looks on mine, no more issues.
Dave M

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #30 – April 22, 2013, 08:39:14 pm

As best as I can tell, the valve extension looks fine. Then again I don't know what a working unit looks like. The parts are shown in the picture below. Perhaps the extension's actuator stem is not centered on the tire valve 's Schrader valve actuator. Or, it could be too short to actuate the tire valves Schrader...I just don't know

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #31 – April 22, 2013, 08:59:31 pm

Alot of us have had poor luck with the extensions, with all the opinions written, I have to simply say, one has to just make a choice and try to live with it, if it provides the warm/fuzzies, you won.

Dave M

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #32 – April 22, 2013, 09:16:42 pm

When I recently switched tires around, I had mybfirst trouble with extensions leaking. I've always had problems filling one. In my case they had not fully tightened the extensions causing one to leak down the 26 psig. I am not currently having problems but I ordered a pair of new extensions just in case. I will also order a pair of the 8" valves, but they will go on next year when the back four tires get replaced

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #33 – April 22, 2013, 09:21:07 pm

Do all of you replace tire valve stems when tires are replaced? I've always changed the seals but not the entire stems. Last week at the Buddy Rally Michelin said their recommended practice was to install new stem whenever new tires are mounted. I would assume that would include extensions if used. I wonder if a lot of the problems with had have come from using old stems and extensions.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #34 – April 22, 2013, 09:27:22 pm

Quote from: amos.harrison – April 22, 2013, 09:21:07 pm

Do all of you replace tire valve stems when tires are replaced?

We have, both times we have replaced tires.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #35 – April 22, 2013, 09:27:29 pm

Brett,
I would insist on new hardware with new tires (this time I will bring the 8" valves with me). Most dealers quote the tires separately from the hardware and trade-in value, if any is allowed by the dealer. In my case, TCi will quote the hardware, installation and trade-in separately from the FMCA tire price & sales tax.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #36 – April 22, 2013, 11:40:30 pm

Quote from: amos.harrison – April 22, 2013, 09:21:07 pm

Do all of you replace tire valve stems when tires are replaced? I've always changed the seals but not the entire stems. Last week at the Buddy Rally Michelin said their recommended practice was to install new stem whenever new tires are mounted. I would assume that would include extensions if used. I wonder if a lot of the problems with had have come from using old stems and extensions.

Brett,
I've always installed new tire stems with each tire change, because that is what I was taught "is the right thing to do" in an early car/truck/bus dealership college job. Rubber or metal, with or without TPMS, didn't matter, replace with OEM new components.
Beyond that, Honda Goldwing/Dunlops, Lexus/Bridgestone Duellers, Alcoa/Michelins, Featherlight/Carlisles all say to do it, so the recommended practice remains clear today.
What is perhaps even more important than installing complete new tire valve stem components (at each tire change or incident), though, is to make sure that you are not unintentionally degrading the quality of the OEM design.
If you just tell a dealership or tire service center to "install new valve stems", I have learned the hard way, that it's a crapshoot regarding whether what you get installed will prove to be better or worse than the original design. If I had to lay odds on it, I'd guess that the odds are 5 to 1 that you will come away with a setup of lesser quality than OEM.
I have never had a problem with a Honda or Lexus car dealership, but I have had myriad problems at Ford, Acura and Honda Goldwing dealerships and at just about every car and truck tire service center that I've ever used. That's why I feel so negatively about soft metal, hand-bent, replacement stems, any kind of extension and stems with cheap Chinese rubber seals.
Your best defense is to buy your own OEM (or better) spares and then supply your own valve stem components when you have tire work done. Beyond that, insist that you be able to observe the work from a safe distance and carefully check the work product, including pressures, before you leave the work site.
Neal

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #37 – April 24, 2013, 03:14:18 pm

Just received the 8 inch long valve stems for the inside rear Duallies. Now whenever Forrest is ready at Cummins, I can have the new set of shoes put on him.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #38 – April 24, 2013, 04:11:04 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – April 24, 2013, 03:14:18 pm

Just received the 8 inch long valve stems for the inside rear Duallies. Now whenever Forrest is ready at Cummins, I can have the new set of shoes put on him.

Peter,
I'm sure you are aware:
For those who know that "the DEVIL may be hiding in the details", just a note of caution about using "bendable" valve stems (and other metal tubing).
If it is not done correctly, "cold forming" metal tubing introduces weaknesses and/or defects into the base metal. At the molecular level, the outside bend radius has to yield and "stretch" while the inside radius has to compress and "wrinkle".
Tubing bends formed in manufacturing processes are done several ways, but all of them, that I know of, involve mandrels, sometimes with heat added.
Medium and thick wall tubing used in low pressure service can be cold formed (bent) without too much concern, up to 10 or 15 degrees of bend. Our inner duals require a tire stem bend in excess of 30 to 35 degrees.
The common rule of thumb for tube bending, such as with brass valve stems, is to not use a bend radius of any less than a 1::4 ratio of the tubing's outside diameter. Valve stems tend to be 9/32" to 5/16" O.D., so 1.125" to 1.5" would be a reasonable minimum bend radius.
Hand mandrels for ¼" tubing come in 1.0" and 1.5" sizes and go for $100 new, or under $40 used on eBay, or tube bending sleeves (for say, 3/8" tubing) are available at hardware stores. One could possibly use a tubing sleeve to bend over a 1.5" diameter pipe or other form.
I mention all of this because:
More than once I have seen truck tire shop technicians install a "bendable" tire stem in a wheel, grab a box end wrench, slip the stem through the box end and proceed to pry and reef away on the stem (with the sharp inner edges of the box end wrench) until they get it somewhere close to headed in the right direction. Then they put the wheel on the hub and finish the bending mutilation off by bending the stem by hand. I saw this again just a couple of years ago, in Brunswick GA, and pointed it out to the owner of the truck. He made a commotion about it and the shop foreman spent time with the technician with a new stem and the proper tools. The shop had the tools but probably no clear expectations other than "turnaround time". Why is it that turnaround time in tire shops is so much more important than doing a job right the first time?
Anyway, if you elect to go with "bendable" stems, bend them correctly yourself or be sure to watch that others do it properly.
I much prefer single piece valve stems. That's why all the agony of trying to find them for the inner duals. But given the choice between a questionable or improperly formed "bendable" stem, and a rugged Haltec/Alcoa stem extension, with maybe with a little LockTite added, I'd definitely prefer the extension. At least I'd know that the "O"-rings or grommets are silicone or EPDM material, designed for high-temperature, commercial truck applications and are not made of rubber, as the "lowest-cost" suppliers are prone to use.
And regardless of the stem material or how it is formed, always change out the tire valve stems when you change out to new tires, inspect and "coarse polish" the inside rim and stem seating surfaces and always keep the hand hole stabilizers properly in place, whether you use TPMS sensors or not.
Best Regards, Peter
Neal

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #39 – April 24, 2013, 04:19:30 pm

Thanks Neal for the usual detailed information. I will be sure to discuss this installation process with the shop that's going to do the installation.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #40 – April 24, 2013, 04:33:38 pm

You gotta laugh, the term "bending" is never allowed in most areas, instead the word is "correct" the position.
These stems are not brittle, the can be corrected safely, no harm. If you tried it, you might find how nice & simple, nor scary.
Normal bending seems to apply to the "meat headed types" with hammers and little sense.
Goes along with the term "destroy an anvil with a feather" type, that I think is being referred to here.
Dave M

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #41 – April 24, 2013, 04:56:49 pm

Dave,
Did you see the installation at Herman Power on your tires (specifically how they "adjusted" the 8" valve from inner dually to outside wheel opening)? Any tips for me to tell the local Cincinnati shop? Or, is it that if I need to point out these tips, I picked the wrong shop?

Before I select the shop (one of two) I will discuss the install procedure with them. So thanks for the input.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #42 – April 24, 2013, 05:25:11 pm

Peter, one of the bigger issues is not properly installing the new stem important the nut is properly torqued, then align the stem in the hole of outer rim takes some time & care to correct it to the center of the hole so the rubber donut / snuber fits with no stress.
Not a biggie, if he man knows his job.
Yes Herman Powers shop did the first one, the second was at my favorite shop in St Lucie Fl.
They also did the road force balance on all six wheels. They were the only shop who could balance the wheels on th MCI bus I ran for20 + years

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #43 – November 08, 2015, 11:25:48 pm

I tried out a couple of 180 degree valve stem extensions last week for the outer duallys since mine are turned inwards and these extensions make it much easier for checking pressures, etc. Amazon.com: Wheel Masters 8029180 180 Degree Valve Extender - Pack of 2:...

After a week no air leaks but they look problematic to me when they would be exposed to the open road conditions. I would appreciate any input or experience anyone has with these.

I already have the extensions with the protective rubber boots on the inside duallys from the PO. No trouble with these but I will be getting new tires in the future with new valve stems. With a 14" long tilt lock air chuck and a Valve Pal, ValvePal I wouldn't need 8" valve stems. Air Chucks at ValvePal

Since I don't use a TPMS, this seems like the most trouble free way to go using shorter valve stems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w8xcMlcc-s

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Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #44 – November 09, 2015, 12:15:39 am

Quote from: Dave M – April 24, 2013, 05:25:11 pm

Peter, one of the bigger issues is not properly installing the new stem important the nut is properly torqued, then align the stem in the hole of outer rim takes some time & care to correct it to the center of the hole so the rubber donut / snuber fits with no stress.
Not a biggie, if he man knows his job.
Yes Herman Powers shop did the first one, the second was at my favorite shop in St Lucie Fl.
They also did the road force balance on all six wheels. They were the only shop who could balance the wheels on th MCI bus I ran for20 + years

My commercial tire dealer and FMCA Michelin dealer mounted my XZA-3's without balancing and used my centrimatics.

I am closely monitoring things always for abnormalities. Balance seems perfect.

Tires are supposed to be pretty close on balance from Michelin I am told.

As are most new tires

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #45 – November 09, 2015, 09:05:26 am

Quote from: coastprt – November 08, 2015, 11:25:48 pm

After a week no air leaks but they look problematic to me when they would be exposed to the open road conditions.

Jerry,

As discussed by others (in this 2-year-old thread), whenever you add any kind of valve extension, you increase the chances of having problems. Some members get away with it - others do not. I personally believe it is not necessary to add any kind of extension. Our coach came with the standard valve stems, and the little "ball valve" caps that allow access without removal. I am able to easily check/inflate all tires. I can even do the inner dual tire in the dark, finding the "hidden" valve cap through the hole by "feel". It's not hard...just requires a little practice.

The key is using the correct inflator tool. The one I use has a "straight back and straight forward" design. It does not lock on the valve - you must hold it in position, but it works great on both rear tire valves. You do whatever makes you happy, but I feel the simple solution, in this case, is the best one.

POWERTANK - CO2 Air Systems

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Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #46 – November 09, 2015, 09:58:15 am

Quote

the little "ball valve" caps that allow access without removal.

I use these "inflate through valve" caps too. Never had one leak.
jor

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #47 – November 09, 2015, 11:19:31 am

Quote

I use these "inflate through valve" caps too. Never had one leak.

I had one leak this spring right after I had new tires put on. After I found low tire pressure, I removed the inflate through valve aired up and put a regular cap on. No more leak. Dealer said they had never had one leak,

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #48 – November 09, 2015, 11:58:17 am

Quote from: jor – November 09, 2015, 09:58:15 am

I use these "inflate through valve" caps too. Never had one leak.
jor

That's what our FMCA dealer installed

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #49 – November 09, 2015, 12:00:36 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – November 09, 2015, 09:05:26 am

Jerry,

As discussed by others (in this 2-year-old thread), whenever you add any kind of valve extension, you increase the chances of having problems. Some members get away with it - others do not. I personally believe it is not necessary to add any kind of extension. Our coach came with the standard valve stems, and the little "ball valve" caps that allow access without removal. I am able to easily check/inflate all tires. I can even do the inner dual tire in the dark, finding the "hidden" valve cap through the hole by "feel". It's not hard...just requires a little practice.

The key is using the correct inflator tool. The one I use has a "straight back and straight forward" design. It does not lock on the valve - you must hold it in position, but it works great on both rear tire valves. You do whatever makes you happy, but I feel the simple solution, in this case, is the best one.

POWERTANK - CO2 Air Systems

POWERTANK - CO2 Air Systems

Their digital tire gauge with its long hose for safety and a clip on end and the straight and angled tips are excellent products.

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