Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

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Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

April 21, 2013, 04:41:37 pm

Today I went to check on Forrest and exercise him. While checking the tire pressures I found that the problematic rear driver's inside tire is not giving any reading whatsoever with the gauge. Zero...Nada...Flat as a pancake.

All attempts to inflate it failed. I cannot get air into the tire!

Since it is the inside tire, this involves the valve extension from the inner wheel to the outside wheel opening. I don't know how involded it is to change the Schrader valve, or even how it operates with the extension attachment to the other Schrader valve attached to the inner dually. I am assuming that there are two Schrader valves involved with the inner dually set up.

Checking and airing up the other 5 tires was not a problem.

What's going on?

As an aside, in case I cannot get air into it, since the coach is in a storage facility would the Good Sam ERS cover this incident? Reading the policy it is not clear what they really do cover. I've never had to use their services before.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #1 – April 21, 2013, 04:47:17 pm

Peter, I would expect Coach Net would send a service truck to change a tire so they would probably be glad to air up a tire also, unless they cannot reach it in storage. Call and ask.
Gary B

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #2 – April 21, 2013, 04:57:24 pm

Peter,

Yes, the extension last two Shraeder valves, with a small cable connecting them. The cable has probably failed. I've seen a tech change an extension using a crow's foot socket without removing the tire

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #3 – April 21, 2013, 05:59:17 pm

hmmm, did you thump the tire? If air not going in, it wont go out on the guage either - just a thought....

Usually on these tires you would hear air going in and leaking around the rim since there was no seal if they weren't going to inflate.

Do the thump test first before you call out a service truck

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #4 – April 21, 2013, 07:02:13 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – April 21, 2013, 05:59:17 pm

hmmm, did you thump the tire? If air not going in, it wont go out on the guage either - just a thought....

Usually on these tires you would hear air going in and leaking around the rim since there was no seal if they weren't going to inflate.

Do the thump test first before you call out a service truck

Oh yeah, Tim...I did the thump test. It's flat alright.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #5 – April 21, 2013, 08:21:18 pm

Dual Dynamics.
try using these. I have for over 10 years now. No problems with duals

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #6 – April 21, 2013, 08:31:10 pm

Peter, it may have broken the bead. If so it won't build pressure. I had the same thing happen in WA last summer. Coach Net sent out a Tire guy at no cost. He removed the tire and re-inflated it with some special band. He said in the old days they sprayed ether in the tire and ignited it. The explosion blew the tire back on the bead and then the tire was filled with air.

I can't see why Good Sam wouldn't cover it. The coach is not at your billing address and they really should cover that as well.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #7 – April 21, 2013, 08:39:46 pm

Quote from: Kent Speers – April 21, 2013, 08:31:10 pm

Peter, it may have broken the bead. If so it won't build pressure. I had the same thing happen in WA last summer. Coach Net sent out a Tire guy at no cost. He removed the tire and re-inflated it with some special band. He said in the old days they sprayed ether in the tire and ignited it. The explosion blew the tire back on the bead and then the tire was filled with air.

I can't see why Good Sam wouldn't cover it. The coach is not at your billing address and they really should cover that as well.

Thanks, Kent. I believe (I cannot assert) that the tire is well on the rim. This particular valve stem has been giving me problems for years. I took it to the local Michelin dealer, but did not think to replace the extension as it did not leak at the time, and the gauges used to check the pressures all worked at the time. I even had them replace the rim (at their cost) and the problem continued. So I really think it's the valve stem that is shot. I'll be sure to mention that to the ERS folks so they send the right type of help that can attend to this problem.

Quote from: Bill Chaplin – April 21, 2013, 08:21:18 pm

Dual Dynamics.
try using these. I have for over 10 years now. No problems with duals

Bill, This is a very interesting application. I must be blind as I did not notice it when we were together at your garage along with Dave M. & Dave C. last year.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #8 – April 21, 2013, 09:11:41 pm

@Peter Exactly the same thing happened to me. Turns out the extension valve cracked where it treads onto the inner Schrader valve. There is a lot of stress generated at that point when you are wiggling it around trying to check air pressure. Drove mine about 2 miles very slowly to the nearest tire guy. He sold me on not using extensions and instead use normal valves and valve caps that you can check the air through. So far has worked flawlessly. Won't work with a TPMS though.

You might just try unscrewing the extension and filling the tire using the inner valve. Worth a try.

see ya
ken

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #9 – April 21, 2013, 09:16:00 pm

Peter,

Here is what I would worry about. If the tire were to lose pressure in storage, the bead would more than likely stay seated on the rim as the outside tire would support it. However, if it were driven while flat, it would easily break the bead and then not seat when you tried to put air in. You can easily drive with the inside dual flat and not know it. At highway speeds, it will vibrate a bit but that is the only hint you may have.

Naturally, driving it while flat will cause the tire to heat up and may damage it if driven any distance. Easy way to seat the bead is to pull it off, run a rope around it and tie a knot. Then put a 3 foot or so piece of pipe between the tire and the rope and start spinning the pipe a few turns to force the tire out against the lip on the Alcoa wheel. While holding the pipe, add air. I usually wipe or spray ArmorAll on the tire where it will contact the wheel. It will then slide over easily and seat at low pressures.

Make sure to inspect the tire if you suspect it was driven flat. In order to make sure it was not, you really need to check tire pressures before storing it and almost no one does that. Might have a truck tire dealer take a look.

Pierce

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #10 – April 21, 2013, 09:18:14 pm

Quote from: kenhat – April 21, 2013, 09:11:41 pm

@Peter Exactly the same thing happened to me. Turns out the extension valve cracked where it treads onto the inner Schrader valve. There is a lot of stress generated at that point when you are wiggling it around trying to check air pressure. Drove mine about 2 miles very slowly to the nearest tire guy. I sold me on not using extensions and instead use normal valves and valve caps that you can check the air through. So far has worked flawlessly. Won't work with a TPMS though.

You might just try unscrewing the extension and filling the tire using the inner valve. Worth a try.

see ya
ken

Ken, so you would remove the valver extension, and then insert the air supply tool through the outer wheel and into the inner wheel's valve stem? I'm not sure what that distance is and if my inflator tool is long enough??? $:-\$

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #11 – April 21, 2013, 09:24:12 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – April 21, 2013, 09:16:00 pm

Make sure to inspect the tire if you suspect it was driven flat. In order to make sure it was not, you really need to check tire pressures before storing it and almost no one does that. Might have a truck tire dealer take a look.

Pierce

About a month ago I exercised the coach and the tire pressures were all checked and adjusted the rear dually in question. The reason I think it's the valve stem is that there is not air "sound" as I insert the inflating tool into the valve stem extension.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #12 – April 21, 2013, 09:29:25 pm

Quote from: Dave M – April 21, 2013, 09:24:39 pm

Peter, Iknow your getting alot of data here, but just thought it was my duty to tell you that I also had issues with those extensions, that is why I had the 8" valve temps installed. Just amazing how all of a sudden all the leaking issues went away until I started playing the Pressure Pro musical games. Point I am trying to make is simply have the 8" stems installed (properly) and your issues are gone.
Why I a lot.
Dave M

Dave, are these a one piece 8" long valve stems? Are these a special order item for most tire shops?

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #13 – April 21, 2013, 09:38:32 pm

@Peter Here's a picture my tire filler. It's 6" inches long. It's sometimes a pain to find the inner valve but it's doable. I see Dave posted about using 8" stems. That's probably the best way to go but from previous threads those things are hard to come by.

see ya
ken

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #14 – April 21, 2013, 09:41:17 pm

Quote from: kenhat – April 21, 2013, 09:38:32 pm

@Peter Here's a picture my tire filler. It's 6" inches long. It's sometimes a pain to find the inner valve but it's doable. I see Dave posted about using 8" stems. That's probably the best way to go but from previous threads those things are hard to come by.

see ya
ken

I figured sourcing the 8" valve stems would be difficult. I'll try Ryder Fleet Products.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #15 – April 21, 2013, 09:46:31 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – April 21, 2013, 09:41:17 pm

I figured sourcing the 8" valve stems would be difficult.

These?

Old Subject, 1 Piece Valve Stems ?

New Michelin tires

There may also be a rubber support that needs to fit in one of the openings of the outer dual rim that the inner one will stick through. I believe that's how ours are set up.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #16 – April 21, 2013, 10:02:46 pm

Quote from: Michelle – April 21, 2013, 09:46:31 pm

These?

Old Subject, 1 Piece Valve Stems ?

New Michelin tires

There may also be a rubber support that needs to fit in one of the openings of the outer dual rim that the inner one will stick through. I believe that's how ours are set up.

Michelle, I do have the rubber supports for the valve extrensions currently. And, it seems the price for the 8" valve stems are up to $25 each...Wow, I'm glad there's no inflation.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #17 – April 21, 2013, 11:02:53 pm

Peter,
You might consider the KISS solution:

Wheel damage from Presure Pro sensor

In addition, if your inner dual were mine, I would have it broken down, have it (and the tire) thoroughly cleaned and inspected, I would coarse polish the rim/tire bead seating surface and the stem seating surface, then I would install a NEW, SHORT, ALCOA (or equal quality) valve stem.
Fooling around with any brand inner dual valve stem extension, a hand bent brass stem or a garden-variety-truck-tire-shop valve stem (with low-cost, questionable, rubber insert) may not be your most trouble free option.

I'm not sure why it is so difficult to gain traction on this simple approach, but it continues to work for me (and lots of truckers).
PM me or call me if you have any questions,
Best wishes, Peter,
Neal

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #18 – April 21, 2013, 11:16:42 pm

Thanks Neal. The issue is finding competent people to do the right job with the right parts. I had this tire inspected and remounted on a new steel wheel about a year ago. At that time they did not find any leaks, but their methods were questionable as there was no submersion tank to determine if a leak existed.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #19 – April 22, 2013, 12:04:47 am

One time I had my coach pulled out of storage and prepped for use . When I showed up one of the first things I did was to check tire pressure. I found one of the inner duals had O psi' .I went to the manager and complained about the flat tire . He sent the employee that had taken my unit out of storage and had inspected it. As is waited for him to show I did the old tire thump and the tire had air. When he showed he told me that the tire extension for that tire was bad and that he had used the one from the other set of duals to air up my tires.I was upset with him for not noting that on his inspection sheet. What I found was that the schrader valve in the extension wasn't screwed in far enough to push in on the schrader valve in the valve stem so the extension wouldn't allowing air to enter the tire. I think what you have is one that the schrader valve is screwed in a little to far. My extensions are not made to be air tight .What I did was to tighten the extension onto the valve stem then adjust the schrader valve in the extension so that I had to push it's stem just about all the way in before I got any air out of the tire. I haven't had any more trouble with that extension. I don't think my type extension will work with tire pressure monitors as there will be a small leak where the extension screws onto the valve stem. Gam

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #20 – April 22, 2013, 08:25:12 am

These Guys have nearly every design known to mankind. Air Chuck or Tire Chuck

Including some really nice long double foot designs

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #21 – April 22, 2013, 08:37:01 am

Here is the 8". http://yourtireshopsupply.com/product/1408/vh515s8t-length-chrome-truck-valve-qty1-vh515s8t

The other was the 7 in effective.

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #22 – April 22, 2013, 10:55:41 am

Karma to Dave for finding the 8" valve stem, there are many ways of doing things, some work real well, but most are a pain in the a## at best. Enuf said,
Good luck
Dave M

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #23 – April 22, 2013, 11:16:54 am

Quote from: Dave Head – April 22, 2013, 08:37:01 am

Here is the 8". http://yourtireshopsupply.com/product/1408/vh515s8t-length-chrome-truck-valve-qty1-vh515s8t

The other was the 7 in effective.

Karma again, Dave. I'll be purchasing a couple of these as I will be replacing all six tires in a couple weeks. I'm waiting for the road tech to get here at the storage place...Should be here by 1 pm. Then on to Cummins for service (Keep fingers crossed that I get a tech that's good).

Re: Flat Tire During Storage & ERS

Reply #24 – April 22, 2013, 11:54:30 am

I got rid of the valve stem extensions and bought tools that allow me to inflate, check the pressure, change the valve stem and install/uninstall my PP sensors. I did this to avoid additional damage to the wheel from the PP sensor that I reported previously. I have found these tools make it easy to service the inside tire. Don't know why I didn't do it sooner. I posted previously on this change.

George

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