Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Topic: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment (Read 1029 times) previous topic - next topic

Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

May 01, 2013, 11:20:08 am

Normally I would have just put this in "what did you do..." but I hope this will do.

Sue and I have been working on this project whenever the weather is not too cold, windy, or rainy since one of us has to lay on the ground under the coach. We have also discovered that 2 or 3 hours at a time is enough to make us go back to the house and take naps.

Access to the top of the engine compartment for this type of job is absolutely necessary.

We discovered that the "sense" wire to the alternator that caused all of this (a previous owner did not re-connect it to the alternator but used a shunt instead... which did not work) by falling out of the corrugated wire-bundle covering and shorting out against the engine block came from the isolator panel mounted just aft of the driver's side rear wheel. This wire is not fused (at least it's not on our U225) and when it shorted out it carried as much current as it could stand for enough time to burn the insulation off every wire close to it in several places.

There were a surprising number of wires close to it.

My greatest fear was that we could have had burned wires extending into the coach from the engine compartment; and all the way back to the battery panel. Thankfully, this has not turned out to be the case. The work involved in that would have been very difficult. It's hard enough just going back to the isolator panel.

We also discovered that adjacent wire damage was sporadic. Our first go at repair was at the top of the engine where most of the obvious damage was visible. We repaired the damaged sections by cutting out the damaged spots and splicing in new wire. We then discovered more damage farther down and, finally, damaged wires clear to the isolator panel. Some parts of these wires looked fine but at several places were completely fused into a black mass. This meant that the first wires we repaired had to be re-done later as we discovered more damage farther along.

So we evolved a better method.

We decided that every single damaged wire had to be free from any fused-together clump before proceeding further. Only by doing this first can you be relatively sure that you are tracing that wire accurately. This is because the wires lose their identity when they are burned. They're all either black or bare. Since many wires were burned right to the isolator panel we had one of us below and one above tugging free wires to determine which wire was which. Another complication was that each wire was involved in more than one "clump" depending upon how close it would be to that "sense" wire inside the wire run in various places.

The trick was to separate all the fused wires without breaking any wires. The clumps require quite a lot of force to pull a specific wire out from within the clump; especially if you have arthritis and are laying across the bed supports and hanging upside down and only using one hand. We're pretty sure we did not break any but if we had we would have immediately tagged both ends at the break and then continued separating wires.

In the process we discovered that over 20 years or so lots of modifications had been done to the wiring and some wires were simply cut. Right now we have only one (red) wire that begins somewhere but does not end anywhere... it just hangs there. It appears cut not burned. Our plan is to attack that issue last using a wiring diagram once all the other wires have been identified and repaired.

There are more colors than just black and red involved. We learned that it's better to get a supply of wires in black, red, green, blue, and yellow and use appropriate colors. There was evidence of earlier repairs by people who just spliced in whatever color wire they had and when we encountered this we used the color of wires at the far ends as guides. This means that the wires will be the right color from end-to-end despite spliced patches and might save someone some work if there are future problems.

We repaired by splicing in a new wire and immediately pulling out the burned wire. It is very important to pull the old wires completely out immediately; otherwise you will get confused if you are doing this work piecemeal over several weeks. Don't ask me how I know this.

We do each wire, one at a time, completely. We also tug on the wires after crimping to make sure that they are well connected. A few times it turns out they are not. Better to find out sooner than later.

We do about six wires at a session then stop, take pain pills, and go home. It would be easier if we were both 25.

We are using connectors that can be heated with a heat gun to make them water resistant. We found them at reasonable prices (but not large quantities) at Home Depot but almost nowhere else. Marine supply stores might have them (West Marine, etc.) but there are none around here. We wasted one entire (sunny and warm) spring day trying to find more. This set us back 3 weeks because the weather turned cold and rainy.

The job is not quite done but we're getting closer, It should be very interesting firing up the system once we are done (or think we are done). We are working up a plan for that.

If you have not yet fused the sense wire to your 4-wire alternator, you should. Seriously.

Craig

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #1 – May 01, 2013, 12:23:39 pm

Try Del City - Del City - Wiring Products and Professional Electrical Supplies Their 'COOL SEAL' butt connectors are pretty neat.

Sounds a little graphic, don't it?

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #2 – May 02, 2013, 01:42:56 am

Quote from: Dave Head – May 01, 2013, 12:23:39 pm

Try Del City - Del City - Wiring Products and Professional Electrical Supplies Their 'COOL SEAL' butt connectors are pretty neat.

Sounds a little graphic, don't it?

LOL... yup, it does. Those are about the price I paid for mine but they look a little higher quality. The idea is the same. With the way my engine compartment is open to the elements (and behind the rear tires) I'm not using anything but connectors that can be heat shrunk for protection.

Craig

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #3 – May 02, 2013, 08:51:43 am

Quote from: Dave Head – May 01, 2013, 12:23:39 pm

Try Del City - Del City - Wiring Products and Professional Electrical Supplies Their 'COOL SEAL' butt connectors are pretty neat.

Sounds a little graphic, don't it?

Dave,
Have you used these? And do they seal well? They look much easier to use than the Solder-Sleeve method.
Rick

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #4 – May 02, 2013, 05:11:21 pm

They are awesome - the sealant is activated when you crimp and takes 3 hours to cure. Poof - its water proof.. I first ran into these with the telephone wire 'button' splices.

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #5 – May 02, 2013, 08:23:49 pm

I like to use the noninsulated crimp on connectors . I just think it's easyer to get the crimp in just the correct place and look it over when your done. I then cover the connector with a section of 3M heat shrink adhesive lined tubing thats a good 3/4" longer on each end that the connector. Gam

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #6 – May 02, 2013, 09:08:03 pm

Never met a crimp I liked but use em as a last resort. Solder, heat shrink, 3m neoprene coating and it's done for good. I recognize that I'm an old stick in the mud but have spliced radome cables this way with never a failure and no bulge in the 25 lead flex conduit with careful offsetting.

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #7 – May 02, 2013, 09:11:53 pm

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – May 02, 2013, 09:08:03 pm

Never met a crimp I liked but use em as a last resort. Solder, heat shrink, 3m neoprene coating and it's done for good. I recognize that I'm an old stick in the mud but have spliced radome cables this way with never a failure and no bulge in the 25 lead flex conduit with careful offsetting.

100% agreement.

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #8 – May 28, 2013, 02:08:13 am

In the continuing stoooory of the engine room burned wiring project, Sue and I repaired the last of about 25 burned wires in our U225's engine room this afternoon. And yes, you're right... it took a long time. Partly because we only did the work when the weather was more-or-less reasonable and partly because we had to re-do several wires as we discovered more burned spots in hidden places.

I gingerly re-connected the start battery while Sue checked for smoke and/or noises. I then took up my accustomed position in the Captain's chair and turned the ignition key to ON while Sue checked for smoke and/or noises. Then we checked the turn signals, brake lights, running lights, etc. Everything seemed ok.

We didn't start the engine because we have to encase the wiring in appropriate corrugated covers and get them away from manifolds and exhaust thingies that might recreate the original problem. That will be later this week if the weather doesn't get worse.

I must say that I was greatly heartened that the engine did not spontaneously start on its own (which was the last thing that happened before I disconnected the start battery). I am now somewhat worried that our new alternator might be damaged by the collapsing field when we suddenly pulled the power. But if so, then we'll deal with it. Once all the wiring is protected we'll give the starter a go. And then tackle the "won't go into reverse" problem that we were trying to fix when all the other stuff happened.

Craig

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #9 – May 28, 2013, 02:59:00 am

Im with you on the wiring Craig, It takes one hell of a time to trace wires and then fix them, You have to find where they go to first,
I am out in the open, So the rain and the mud is a problem, Slows every thing down to a crawl, And I dont like laying in Mud, Hahahaha
I will check out my alternator wires as well, Ta,

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #10 – May 28, 2013, 08:23:29 am

Craig, bot Jeff Savournin and I had 93 U225's that experienced problems getting into reverse. Jeff had to replace the entire shift cable but my coach only required linkage adjustment. As I recall the adjuster is under the little flip up dash just to the left of the driver. Open the cover, loosen the lock nut and adjust the cable in and out as needed. This is from my memory from 4 years ago so not terribly clear but I did fix the problem with the adjustment.

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #11 – May 28, 2013, 10:13:15 am

Craig, also, there is an adjustment back at the tranny. Easy to get to, easy to adjust.

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #12 – May 28, 2013, 12:30:09 pm

Thanks Jeff and Kent.... I recall looking at the linkage in the shift compartment (the hinged lid) but I have not yet examined the other end. The shifting has become difficult over the past year and last trip it was almost impossible to get into the lower gears so I think something is up with the system other than just a simple adjustment. But I'm going to disconnect the transmission end as a first step to see if the cable itself is the issue or if it's the transmission itself (yikes!).

Craig

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #13 – May 31, 2013, 01:14:43 am

Sue and I finished tidying up the wiring in the engine compartment; tucking all the wires into corrugated tubes to protect keep them away from manifolds and exhausts and things. We then decided to try to start the engine.

The engine had not been started (or even turned over) since last November so I was a bit cautious. First attempt was just a click. Checked the batteries and it looked like they were not putting out enough current so I went back and checked to see if I had overlooked a battery cable. Sure enough, in my haste to disconnect the start batteries during the electrical fire I had tucked one away and missed it when I reconnected the other day. Installed that cable, Sue headed back to the bedroom to watch for smoke, and this time when I turned the key the ol' Cummins 5.9 fired right up!!

We had oil pressure, all the gauges worked properly, the PACbrake is operating, and as far as I can tell it's all working properly. You can imagine my relief.

I didn't have enough courage to try the gears as I was pretty sure nothing had changed (no reverse). Next step - probably next week - will be to take a good long look at the shifting cable and see if there is some reason it's binding up and if there is a simple fix.

We are hoping to be able to take it on a trip in two weeks but that all depends on the ability to go into reverse.

Slow but steady.

Crait

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #14 – May 31, 2013, 02:04:57 am

Excellent news Craig, I'm sure hearing that old Cummins fire up must've been a thrill! I hope to be starting ours soon... I don't want to even think about how long it's been sitting

Don

Quote from: wa_desert_rat – May 31, 2013, 01:14:43 am

Sue and I finished tidying up the wiring in the engine compartment; tucking all the wires into corrugated tubes to protect keep them away from manifolds and exhausts and things. We then decided to try to start the engine.

The engine had not been started (or even turned over) since last November so I was a bit cautious. First attempt was just a click. Checked the batteries and it looked like they were not putting out enough current so I went back and checked to see if I had overlooked a battery cable. Sure enough, in my haste to disconnect the start batteries during the electrical fire I had tucked one away and missed it when I reconnected the other day. Installed that cable, Sue headed back to the bedroom to watch for smoke, and this time when I turned the key the ol' Cummins 5.9 fired right up!!

We had oil pressure, all the gauges worked properly, the PACbrake is operating, and as far as I can tell it's all working properly. You can imagine my relief.

I didn't have enough courage to try the gears as I was pretty sure nothing had changed (no reverse). Next step - probably next week - will be to take a good long look at the shifting cable and see if there is some reason it's binding up and if there is a simple fix.

We are hoping to be able to take it on a trip in two weeks but that all depends on the ability to go into reverse.

Slow but steady.

Crait

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #15 – May 31, 2013, 02:31:38 am

Quote from: acousticart – May 31, 2013, 02:04:57 am

Excellent news Craig, I'm sure hearing that old Cummins fire up must've been a thrill! I hope to be starting ours soon... I don't want to even think about how long it's been sitting
Don

Don... you know it was a sweet sound!! My heart went pitty-pat. Even though we had a plan and were working towards it, having your rig down is always a weight on your shoulders. But that Cummins 5.9 is a workhorse; you just can't keep them down. One of the reasons we wanted a U225. We had several pickups on the farm with that engine and they were remarkable for their ability to just run no matter what. And farm trucks are not the best taken-car-of trucks in the world, either. Farm hands just drive 'em and don't always pamper them.

So I will sleep well tonight. Like I told the DW, "We are back to where we were last November but the important thing is that we're back to where we were in November and can move forward."

Craig

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #16 – May 31, 2013, 11:07:30 am

Good news Craig! Yes, the Cummins 5.9 is a really excellent engine. Together with your low profile rig, your fuel mileage must be outstanding especially in the hills.

My only neighbor had an older 5.9 in his PU. You could tell time from his startup schedule even a few hundred feet away. Now, the electronic engines are almost a quiet as an Isuzu NPR diesel. Don't know of anyone not happy with theirs, even a few hundred thousand later.

You have to constantly move forward in life. Don't worry about reversing directions.

Pierce

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #17 – May 31, 2013, 01:29:26 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – May 31, 2013, 11:07:30 am

Good news Craig! Yes, the Cummins 5.9 is a really excellent engine. Together with your low profile rig, your fuel mileage must be outstanding especially in the hills.

Pierce, I have had cars that got worse fuel mileage than this U225!!! Seriously! Several cars, in fact. I'm thinking specifically of a 1955 Oldsmobile V8 and a Chevrolet Impala with a 409!

I had a Dodge camper van that got 7mpg no matter what I did. That 318 was no gas miser, that's for sure.

The last trip out in the U225 we averaged 12mpg for a 240 mile out-and-back trip. I know that mileage goes down in the mountains where we seem to do a lot of driving but over all we are right at 11mpg over 3,000 miles and it seems to be improving. Either I'm getting worse at math or I'm getting better at driving.

Like most of us we regularly make a trip to visit relatives. In our case it's a 700 mile round trip to the Long Beach area north of Astoria, Oregon. This was a 7-hour trip in our SUV and I figured it would take us 8 or 9 hours in the U225. Wrong! The trip was still 7-hours even though we did not go over 60mph on the freeway sections (half of the trip). We had our son and his wife and their 6-month-old daughter and we still equaled the average time in a car. I attribute this to a combination of the rig being extremely easy to drive (cruise control, quiet, comfortable), a 100-gallon fuel tank that means no fuel stops needed, and the fact that lunch can be on the go (although we still stopped for a snack). Our son, who was working nights, actually slept comfortably in the back bedroom for most of the trip; doors and curtains all closed up tight. I am at the point where I'd rather take the FT just because it's so nice to drive!

Definitely an amazing motor home!

Craig

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Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

May 01, 2013, 11:20:08 am

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #1 – May 01, 2013, 12:23:39 pm

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #2 – May 02, 2013, 01:42:56 am

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #3 – May 02, 2013, 08:51:43 am

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #4 – May 02, 2013, 05:11:21 pm

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #5 – May 02, 2013, 08:23:49 pm

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Reply #6 – May 02, 2013, 09:08:03 pm

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Reply #7 – May 02, 2013, 09:11:53 pm

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #8 – May 28, 2013, 02:08:13 am

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #9 – May 28, 2013, 02:59:00 am

Re: Update on Burned Wiring in U225 Engine Compartment

Reply #10 – May 28, 2013, 08:23:29 am

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Reply #11 – May 28, 2013, 10:13:15 am

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Reply #12 – May 28, 2013, 12:30:09 pm

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Reply #13 – May 31, 2013, 01:14:43 am

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Reply #14 – May 31, 2013, 02:04:57 am

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Reply #15 – May 31, 2013, 02:31:38 am

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Reply #16 – May 31, 2013, 11:07:30 am

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