Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Topic: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines (Read 1271 times) previous topic - next topic

Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

May 08, 2013, 10:30:06 am

I'm sure everyone has read or watched on the news the terrible tragedy in San Francisco a couple of days ago. Hard to imagine how fire could have spread so fast that five died and two others were critically burned when they could not get out of the vehicle. We happened to be crossing the Golden Gate and were listening to the radio announcement at about the same time .

Reading about Gary's unfortunate "T" bone accident and then remembering three major T bone accidents on fire trucks I was a passenger on, I could not help but think how quickly a day can change from a fun outing to a terrible tragedy.

Our Foretravels have a huge amount of fuel located close to our only easily available exit. In a GV, it's right next to the door and even with the front door on the later models, it's still very close to the diesel and propane tanks. In last year's Daytona 500, Juan Pablo Montoya's race car had a suspension failure, hit the jet dryer and ignited a tank of jet fuel/diesel causing a huge explosion and fire. Imagine if the dryer trailer also had 50 gallons of propane on board.

OK, it took me four paragraphs to get to the point but I hope everyone will think of an alternate exit in the case of an accident. If hit in the fuel tank area, the damage may start a fire at the time of impact or shortly after when the fuel reaches a source of ignition. Knowing how to push out the windows and get everyone out as quickly as possible can be a life saver. Sure, an engine or fridge fire may allow you time to get out and even use your fire extinguisher but in an accident, you may only have seconds. Planning ahead can make sure you use every second to your advantage to organize your family's escape. Won't go into details but less than a second of flame contact on the skin can be deadly.

Here is a video of Juan Pablo's crash into the jet dryer: 2012 Daytona 500 - Juan Montoya Hits Jet-Dryer

Pierce

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #1 – May 08, 2013, 11:37:21 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – May 08, 2013, 10:30:06 am

OK, it took me four paragraphs to get to the point but I hope everyone will think of an alternate exit in the case of an accident. If hit in the fuel tank area, the damage may start a fire at the time of impact or shortly after when the fuel reaches a source of ignition.

A refrigerator fire at night while we're asleep in the bedroom is one of my worst-case scenarios. Our older GV with no slide has large windows on each side of the bed and just opening the slider will provide enough room to get out of the coach without going forward (past the burning fridge) to the door. The downside (heh) is getting down the side because these rigs are big. Our little U225 is only "little" in comparison with the U280s and up and it's still plenty tall. I suppose a broken leg is better than burning to death... but I have not yet come up with a good solution to the landing.

Flashlights are critical. All my years working on drill rigs and ships put me into the habit of carrying a flashlight in my pocket ("well, yes... I do have a flashlight in my pocket... but that doesn't mean I'm not happy to see you"). I used to carry a mini mag light made of aluminum but these were slow to convert to LED (I had to buy kits) and expensive. Recently, at our local Costco, we found a package of 3 LED flashlights; each of them with 250 lumens of light for only $19.95!! We bought a set of three and I think I'll buy 3 more and put them everywhere. We originally just thought we'd use them for headlights on our bicycles this summer when we do the "route of the Hiawatha" rails-to-trails after blindly bouncing from side-to-side in the tunnels last time but they're so darned bright that we need more!!!

You simply cannot imagine the usefulness of always having a flashlight. One time we were in a movie theater when the projector quit working. After about ten minutes the audience was getting restless and you could hear that some people were not happy. I took out my pocket flashlight and started making hand shadow puppets on the screen which lightened the mood considerably.

By the way... I do not buy flashlights that do not display their power in lumens any more. No other measurement is really as useful and certainly the number of LEDs is useless since LEDs can be of whatever brightness the designer wants. The absolute minimum is 150 and it's preferable to have this in three steps; two at the very least. Usually they add some sort of useless feature (like "strobe") but at least if the lumens are over 150 and honest about it you can use it in almost any circumstance.

Except, as it turns out, the tunnels on the Route of the Hiawatha where 150 lumens is not enough. Trust me.

Other than packing a rock climber's landing mat in the coach, or trying to manage a graceful exit in an emergency, I'm still stumped about the exit. Unless parking the coach right next to the bedroom would work.

Craig

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #2 – May 08, 2013, 11:57:38 am

Usually Costco or Home Depot has a three pack of LED flashlights on a headband for $10 or $15 . $3-$5 each, batteries included. I have these everywhere as well, coach, home, bedroom, car

INCREDIBLY useful and hand, cheap and you can run them a long time without replacing batteries

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #3 – May 08, 2013, 12:21:55 pm

Quote from: wa_desert_rat – May 08, 2013, 11:37:21 am

Flashlights are critical. All my years working on drill rigs and ships put me into the habit of carrying a flashlight in my pocket

Me too!!! Had to carry one at work for years. Was supplied a flashlight that was approved under the following: UL listed Class I Div 1 & 2 Groups C, D, Class II Group G, Class III, MSHA approved. It was quickly replaced with a mini mag light! Although MagLite does not meet all the approvals for working in explosive areas, it never caused a explosion and more importantly never failed me. I currently have several MagLite LED flashlights. I picked up a 3 AA cell LED and liked it so much that I picked up two more when they were on sale. Carry those in the cars and motorhome. Also carry a 2 C cell LED in the motorhome. Carry the Maglite® XL50 in my Go Bag. Fantastic lights and the batteries last forever in them. Maglite recently replaced one of mine that had developed battery corrosion. I had lost it for well over a year. Mailed it in and they sent me back a new one.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #4 – May 08, 2013, 12:46:29 pm

Pointed hammer next to my bedroom window, 3 lb sledge up in drivers station to break out windows/windshield. The front exit options are poor in the mid door entry models.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #5 – May 08, 2013, 01:18:09 pm

I too have flashlights everywhere. My light of choice is" Surefire" , super bright.
When at work was never without a flashlight. You never think about how dark it will be in the bowels of a vessel until the lights go out!
Richard B.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #6 – May 08, 2013, 02:31:29 pm

The windows with red lock latches have been identified by Foretravel as emergency exits. Gam

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #7 – May 08, 2013, 04:03:54 pm

For those with Android and IPhones there is an app that turns on the cameras flash LED so it works as a flashlight. Have used mine a couple of times and it works OK. Even flashes SOS.

Get it at Google Play Store or the Apple App Store

Not quite as good as the real thing but OK if needed.

I have flashlights everywhere in the coach and a couple in each car.

Keith

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #8 – May 08, 2013, 04:14:43 pm

As to propane tanks in RVs. I saw a test many years ago of ASME tanks, like we have, where a car is deliberately hit by a locomotive. Tank safety system worked and no explosion. Same test with a car with gasoline tank was pretty spectacular. So long as the propane does not boil and overcome the venting system you should be OK. If you wait around for it to boil then may I say the Darwin principal will be at work.

Keith

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #9 – May 08, 2013, 05:25:07 pm

The problem is much worse if the propane tank is only partially full. The heat from the diesel will weaken the metal above the liquid level and with the propane expanding and going out the vent, the liquid level will drop pretty quickly. The tank ruptures and then it's call a BLEVE or Boiling Liquid Evaporative Vapor Explosion. Watched several fatal propane fires training films where the safety did not work. Still remember the six firemen in KC running through burning propane.

A good reason to get out and as far away as quickly as you can and never in line with the end of the tank.

Pierce

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #10 – May 08, 2013, 06:31:34 pm

RE: "windows with red lock latches have been identified by Foretravel as emergency exits"

I heard that the only difference between Creation windows with red and black handles is the color of the handle. Windows are the same and neither are great for emergency use and neither will hinge out to give us a full opening.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #11 – May 08, 2013, 07:10:51 pm

On some of the newer coaches they do hinge out to give full access but breaking them and taking out the center is not hard and it is easier if you have incentive too.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #12 – May 08, 2013, 08:24:36 pm

I don't know if a hinged emergency exit window would be EZ to use it a roll over? To me slide it or break it sounds OK. The windows are thin safety glass . . One thing I did add for fire is a fire extinguisher in the bedroom. Gam

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #13 – May 08, 2013, 10:52:48 pm

I saw on, I think, the Wanderlodge Forum a neat idea. Poster had mounted these folding steps to the side of the coach under the bedroom window, for emergency egress.

Buyers Folding Grab Step with 2-Bolt Pattern Stainless Steel | Grab

The only problem I can see is that it makes it easier to break into the coach!

Keith

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #14 – May 09, 2013, 09:56:27 am

If you are in a rolled coach the front window will pop out or come out pretty easily. I am not worried about Roll overs but fires and stuff like that.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #15 – May 09, 2013, 06:48:13 pm

We too keep a baby sledge hammer next to the bed and now will carry one next to the drivers seat. I have added several additional fire extinguishers to boot. But I am not terribly concerned about the BLEVE Pierce mentioned. If that occurs while I am still in or near the coach I will not have to worry about the outcome. If a butane lighter explosion is equal to a 1/4 stick of dynamite then a BLEVE explosion of a 1/2 tank of propane might approach the megaton range. You won't feel a thing.
Does anyone know if there has ever been a propane explosion in a Foretravel or any other class A motorhome?

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #16 – May 09, 2013, 09:18:30 pm

Quote from: Kent Speers – May 09, 2013, 06:48:13 pm

We too keep a baby sledge hammer next to the bed and now will carry one next to the drivers seat. I have added several additional fire extinguishers to boot. But I am not terribly concerned about the BLEVE Pierce mentioned. If that occurs while I am still in or near the coach I will not have to worry about the outcome. If a butane lighter explosion is equal to a 1/4 stick of dynamite then a BLEVE explosion of a 1/2 tank of propane might approach the megaton range. You won't feel a thing.
Does anyone know if there has ever been a propane explosion in a Foretravel or any other class A motorhome?

Half a second on Google brought this up: Propane Tank Explosion Takes Out Four RV'S One RV propane tank explosion, 4 RVs burn.

Another at: Husband, wife hospitalized after propane tank explodes at Lebanon campground

Good shot of a class A after a propane tank explosion burned the driver: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54447323-78/fire-greensides-motor-snowbird.html.csp

Tanks that are supposed to be secure and have safety devices ARE pretty safe but as seen in the above articles, there are plenty of exceptions. It pays to be prepared.

Lots more online but think that is enough for now.

Pierce

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #17 – May 10, 2013, 07:17:32 am

Well, I guess if one where to sit and worry about propane tanks exploding. refrigerators burning, or rolling over in a M/H, brakes failing,wheels coming off, tires blowing out, oh yea the generator fumes killing ya, and the bulkheads falling apart the gray hair would not be worth it. Nothing wrong with being prepaired and anything can happen, but with proper maintenance, and a little common since most all of this doesn't happen. Now I do loose sleep over a little fat North Korean with nuclear weapons, but I can't do much about that either.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #18 – May 10, 2013, 11:07:31 am

Well, I guess I flogged this one a bit and the odds are that as an individual, we won't lose brakes on a grade, blow a tire and roll the rig, have the fridge catch fire, etc. I do believe it is good to read about experiences of others and file it away so if the occasion arises, you might recall others past experiences and act accordingly. Sort of like the reason schools teach the kids to stop, drop and roll.

As a pilot, I have always read Flying Magazine as soon as a new issue hits the grocery store zine rack while Gaylie has the cart in line. My favorite column is I Learned About Flying From That. The writers have survived a mistake or equipment failure and lived to tell about it. Sort of like some of our forum posts. A lot of my cousins are or have been pilots. All except for one, died as the result of a mistake they made. Like I said, I keep reading the columns and so far, I'm still here.

Pierce

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #19 – May 10, 2013, 11:15:06 am

Why?

best, paul

Quote

We too keep a baby sledge hammer next to the bed and now will carry one next to the drivers seat.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #20 – May 10, 2013, 12:47:07 pm

I have often thought that my training and experience as an airplane and glider pilot have made me a safer driver, too. The habit of keeping one's head on a "swivel" especially. Nothing like being in the same thermal as 15 other glider pilots with greatly differing climbing and turning characteristics to hone that swivel to a fine edge. Visibility in a glider is pretty good but straight down and behind, not so much.

Anything that presents a problem that you might encounter and that someone else has solved is worth looking at. Just keep right on learning....

Craig

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #21 – May 10, 2013, 01:09:20 pm

Pierce, your contributions to the Forum are always well thought out and researched and I for one appreciate your input. Its just sometimes we all focus on the "What Ifs" enough to dampen the joy of our lifestyle. As long as we keep these potential problems in perspective, all is well.

Keep up the good work.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #22 – May 10, 2013, 06:18:37 pm

For those of us who are new, the "what if" question is good to consider. Some of us may not even know what questions to consider, so we're always grateful to those of you who so patiently teach us. Some day I'd like to sit down at a Rally or small get-together and just listen to those of you who are more experienced tell about your knowledge. Last day at school is now less than 30 days away, and we're starting to get rid of stuff. Maybe by this time next year we'll be full-timers and can actually go to some events.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #23 – May 10, 2013, 07:11:22 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – May 10, 2013, 06:18:37 pm

For those of us who are new, the "what if" question is good to consider. Some of us may not even know what questions to consider, so we're always grateful to those of you who so patiently teach us.

And if we are not new, we can still learn!!! I am finally getting around to adding a set of TST tpms to both the coach and the toad. The toad has built in ones, but if you are in the coachn going down the road, they do no good.

Also finally planning one adding a automatic fire extingusher to the fridge, if there is room for one in that tiny outside compartment on the U225.

Re: Fire, Foretravels and Limousines

Reply #24 – May 10, 2013, 07:27:04 pm

Quote from: Kent Speers – May 10, 2013, 01:09:20 pm

Pierce, your contributions to the Forum are always well thought out and researched and I for one appreciate your input.

X-2!!!

And Pierce, do you remember that propane BLEVE training movie where the large propane tank took off like a missile? I was thinking it was someplace in Texas, like Texas City. I remember seeing it during my Fire Science Technology college days. Have searched the www but can't find it. Almost thought it was one of the NFPA training series films. Was very impressive!

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