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Topic: Clicking inverter ATS or ProSine problem - need help (Read 674 times) previous topic - next topic

Clicking inverter ATS or ProSine problem - need help

On our second AK trip with 2000 U320. Had solar panels installed a couple years back so we are ready to do some Boone docking. UP INTIL NOW

Yesterday we were in a state CG with no hookups but lots of hungry mosquitoes. Woke up to wife hearing coffee in microwave and the ATS clicking under bed. Only slight clicks so I did not yell. Got up and went to heat my coffee and had her stand by the bed to see if she could hear the clicking. Hit the microwave start and the clicking was so bad the microwave itself was going on and off. Of course my wife would not have notices that as long as the coffee came out hot.

Batteries were at 12.6 before starting MW. with the MW up and down so fast and violently, I immediately shut it off and did not notice what the voltage dropped down to while it was attemting to run. But I know in the past we have started the MW with the batteries as low and 12.4v without any problem for a 75 min MW cycle. Inverter was OK at this point

Fired up the generator and finished breakfast and fought off the mosquitoes to hook up the car and get out of there. Left the gen on as we went down the road to get a bulk charge on the batteries before letting the cummins alternator and solar to finish off the charge. After about an hour I clicked off the gen.

THEN in about 5-7 minutes we could hear an alarm. It was the proSine 2.5 was in fault. Code #194, and it shut down. No A/C going down the road, how can anyone live without Silverleaf running on the laptop at their side. Especially here in AK with the grades. Knowing exactly what gear you are in and the temp of the retarder fluid is a must for me.

When we got to cell phone coverage, called Xantrex (Schneider) who I talked  thru the incident and they had me throw the  bypass switch for 15 seconds and then back to normal. unit came back to life. he could not tell me what caused it to go into fault and shut down. tried to explain that FT adds a second ATS, but that was too confusing to the tech to comprehend and relate to whether the Inverter problem was caused by the ATS malfunctioning or the output of the Inverter was causing the ATS to chatter. Interesting that the fault did not happen when I was running the microwave but happened shortly after shutting down the gen, which also cycles that same ATS.

Already replaced the proSine once, 7 years ago, but they do not support with replacements like they did back then. Hopefully it is the ATS which the tech admitted if the load was going on and off rapidly could affect the inverter circuitry. Reading recent postings about shore power ATS issues and noted it is possible to clean the contacts, AND that the 100 amp version is no longer available or supported.

Any suggestions where to start? I thought the inverter ATS was the same size, 100 amp, as the shore power ATS, but since it is the buried under the bed I have not dug that deep yet. I guess it could be a smaller amperage ATS. I noted when this problem was occurring that the ATS enclosure in question was warm to the touch and it has buzzed louder than normal at times in the past.
Tom 🎅 & Marion 👩🏻‍🎓 Braum
2000 U320 - SD "ITSHOME"
Jeep Patriot - SD "GUESTRM"

Re: Clicking inverter ATS or ProSine problem - need help

Reply #1 –
Tom, Fellow in Brunswick with similar coach had about same problem.  We disconnected ALL the house batteries , cleaned connections and reconnected.  All was well.  Later conversation with Prosine they advised him to do a HARD reset, in other words just what we did.
Good luck
Gary B

Re: Clicking inverter ATS or ProSine problem - need help

Reply #2 –
Hi Tom,

Pitted contacts readily can be caused by powering up or down under load. You need to check the relay contacts of the ATS under the bed.  Be sure all power is off first. The ATS-100 cover can be removed with very short screwdrivers. If those contacts are the culprit, expect to see black pits and see roughness. Use a file only if the burned spots are really deep. Take pictures of the wiring. It would be vest to remove the relays if you need to do this. It is best to polish them until they shine again. Hopefully this is the cause of your problem.

Poor wire connection can also be responsible for your symptoms. Check all connections and re-crimp any push-on 1/4" connectors so they are tight. Again, look for black evidence of resistance and heat.

If your Prosine stays on (without more faults) after doing the soft reset (bypass switch) then you might presume it is OK. If it still faults, then do the hard reset (disconnect all AC and DC power wires for 15 minutes). Tape any loose wires while they are off.

Getting to the Prosine transfer relay(s) would be a challenge because the are so many screws, wires and boards in the way., No wonder they say these units are non-repairable. I had mine apart years ago but do not remember all the steps.  If you need to attempt this I'd suggest you talk with Gary Omel - call me for his phone number. Observe for burned components on the boards at the same time and be sure to take pictures before you start.

Another thought - also check the screw tightness and pitting for the breaker connections in the main and inverter circuit breaker boxes at foot of the bed.

Jim

2002 U320
Jim Frerichs
2002 U320 42'

Re: Clicking inverter ATS or ProSine problem - need help

Reply #3 –
Just a comment on a side issue you mention:  The lack of the Silverleaf information.  I would feel the same.  The little HP computer I use to run the VMSpc is powered by a 12 volts supply that plugs into one of the dash ports. 

You might want to invest in whatever works with your particular computer (small inverter, or actual 12 volt supply [which is what I have]) then the lack of 110 wouldn't be an issue.  I don't generally run down the road with the inverter on unless I need it for charging things or odd 110 volt appliances.
The selected media item is not currently available.Brad & Christine Slaughter
Was:  1990 U280 36'
Was:  2002 U270 36' (With a bathroom door) Build #5981
Is:  2021 Leisure Travel Van Wonder 24RL
2015 Jeep JKU, 2003 S10 QC 4x4 or 2017 C-Max
Lake Havasu City, AZ (or Gillette, WY)

Re: Clicking inverter ATS or ProSine problem - need help

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Brad & Christine Slaughter –
You might want to invest in whatever works with your particular computer (small inverter, or actual 12 volt supply [which is what I have]) then the lack of 110 wouldn't be an issue.  I don't generally run down the road with the inverter on unless I need it for charging things or odd 110 volt appliances.

At the risk of repeating myself (again), the prices of pure sine inverters small enough to plug into cigarette lighter plugs are now below $100. I'm using one in our U225 (which did not come with a built-in inverter of any persuasion) to run HDTV sets (i move it along with the BluRay player). The new LED TVs draw so little power than 180 watts of inverter power run them easily along with the associated players. You can run lots of devices off these little buggers and when you're done you just pull the plug and put the inverter in a drawer. They're pretty small.

This is especially useful on older rigs (like ours) where there was no inverter or a non-pure-sine (coughmodifiedsinewavecough) inverter. We did install a 1600-watt pure sine inverter under the fridge but right now I'm leaning towards using it with a decent extension cord instead of running wires back to a switch and trying to move all the appropriate circuits. KISS.

As for your immediate problem, I agree that where I would start is, as Gary mentioned, right at the house batteries with all connections. If the problem persisted I'd move to the rest of the connections to the inverter. These are going to be big cables and sometimes they aren't as well prepared as they should be.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Clicking inverter ATS or ProSine problem - need help

Reply #5 –
It sounds like your batteries were in a highly discharged state which would have caused the inverter to go into a fault. Do you have a good volt meter to check the condition of your batteries?
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Clicking inverter ATS or ProSine problem - need help

Reply #6 –
Battery was charged and has worked in the past without any issue with voltage at 12.6 before starting MW on inverter.

Removed ATS and removed all the contacts. There were small pits on them and a little evidence of heat from temp. Not so bad as I would have guessed to cause this problem. One thing to note for anyone that may have to do same and not able to clean contacts. The relays in this ATS are three pole but only two poles are used since it is not 240v which the ATS is rated for. So you can simply remove the contacts not used, one on each relay, and put these two sets on the one relay that is on the inverter leg so that you have a good solid connection on delicate inverter side. No need to clean and polish all the contacts for a quick fix. Of course getting to the ATS in my case, under the bed below the shore power ATS which has to be removed to get at the inverter ATS, took the most time.

Now that I have cleaned and polished the inverter ATS contacts I will do the shore power ATS in the near future. Since it is on top and its contacts easy to remove and reinstall I will be able to remove and polish these contacts  by only removing the ATS cover.

Oh yes, tested microwave on inverter and it works fine, of course the batteries are fully charged now. Will see how it works with batteries partially discharged when we are boon docking in Seward AK watching eagles next week.
Tom 🎅 & Marion 👩🏻‍🎓 Braum
2000 U320 - SD "ITSHOME"
Jeep Patriot - SD "GUESTRM"