which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

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which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

August 02, 2013, 01:53:08 am

Hi All,

Brand new at RVing and interested mainly in older Foretravel diesels due to limited money. This will be for my young family of five to travel and live in for about 6 months, so it needs to be very reliable and liveable.
I am looking at a couple of options now and want your input about the engines, transmissions, and everything else you can think of, if I may borrow some of your time and experience.
Option 1: '93 36', Cummins 8.3 diesel, Allison 6 speed automatic transmission, 120k miles, very well kept and in great shape. Around $23k.

Option 2: another 93, about 100k miles, U240 cat 3116, allison 6 speed tranny, also a 36'. Good condition, not as nice as #1, and about $21k.

Option 3: '87 Grand villa diesel 3208 cat, about 75k miles, not sure yet what the length is (it is long, at least 36'), no fridge, good condition otherwise, with a towbar and new tires. Around $14k. Would like to know more about this, such as the transmission, mpg, how good that engine was/is, how much it would cost to put a fridge in (used is fine, and I could probably do that).

Option 4: '82 Grand Villa 36' diesel, solar powered everything except AC's, 225k miles. Don't know much else about it as I haven't talked to the owners, but am curious. 440W solar power. 100 gal fuel and h2o tanks, oshkosh chassis. Lots of new stuff. About $9k.

So, I am sure that much info is missing, but would like anyone who wants to weigh in with experience, and especially about the mechanical (engine, transmission, chassis, generator, air brakes, suspension, etc). Also feel free to chime in one anything else I should be aware of and check out, such as particular problems some of these models had.

Also curious about the wisest decision regarding the resale value vs. the asking price.
All comments welcome and appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Chris

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #1 – August 02, 2013, 02:44:59 pm

Welcome, Chris. You are wise to start searching for a Foretravel. From your introduction I gather that you will be on the move quite a bit, rather than staying in one place for several months at a time, so looking at a motor home is a good choice. Others with more experience and knowledge than I have will certainly chime in with their opinions. Please remember that what we tell you is our opinion, and you ought to compare what we say with the reality of your own situation.

You can compare your four coaches at: Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year

I suggest that you bookmark that, as you will refer to it frequently. Your first choice is a U280, which is a wide-body coach and has an eight airbag suspension. Our coach is also a 93, but a U300. When we started looking at Foretravels for full-time use we were repeatedly advised to look only at U280 or U300 coaches in the Unihome series or any of the Unicoach models. We took that advice and found it good. I'd suggest that you drop choices 2, 3, and 4 from further consideration.

I'm not too thrilled with the U280, though. I'd strongly suggest that you look for a 40' coach. That additional length won't be noticeable while driving, and will be of minimal concern when parking. It will be of GREAT concern, though, as the five of you try living in 340 square feet (the nominal area of a wide-body 40' coach). Those four feet show up not only in the living area but also in the basement storage area.

Keep in mind that the purchase price of the coach is, in some ways, only the beginning. Unless you get a cream puff that is being sold out of distress (and they do exist) you will spend some additional money fairly quickly for upgrades and repairs. For example, we had to replace four of the six tires when we bought our coach. Total cost was about $2600 or so. In addition, the hubs were leaking and needed new gaskets. That was another $300 or so. The refrigerator died (it was the original) and we are going to replace it with a residential model. The refrigerator will be $5-700, plus whatever I spend on the cabinet rework. If you need batteries you are looking at several hundred dollars per battery.

That said, that cream puff I mentioned above won't need any of that, but it will be priced somewhat higher than one that does. Often, the cream puff will actually be the cheaper coach to buy, because you won't pay full price for the new tires, batteries, refrigerator, etc. On the other hand, if cash flow is tight, buying a coach that needs some work, but is still roadworthy, can spread the expenses out over a longer period of time since you can save up a bit for those major purchases that are needed. You will pay more in the end, but not as much up front. Your choice.

None of the coaches you mention have slides, and for a beginner I think that is wise. Slides add room, yes, but they also add weight and complexity, and they subtract storage space. The earlier Unicoaches don't have slides, so you can have the newer bus-style and no slides. I happen to like the Grand Villa (aka Unihome) because the driver and navigator sit up higher than in the Unicoaches. We also like the mid-entry of the GV over the front entry of the Unicoaches. Again, your choice.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #2 – August 02, 2013, 02:56:15 pm

Is #1 a U280 or ORED? If U280 and in the the condition you suggest(best of the group), that would be at the top of the list.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #3 – August 02, 2013, 03:18:09 pm

According to Barry's list, it is a U280. He doesn't show any ORED models in 93.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #4 – August 02, 2013, 03:20:56 pm

Quote from: chrisgruen – August 02, 2013, 01:53:08 am

... This will be for my young family of five to travel and live in for about 6 months, so it needs to be very reliable and liveable...

Welcome to the forum, Chris.

I lean towards the U280 in that group. They are bigger (higher) and wider than the U240. This translates to more living space inside and more storage in the "basement".

The U280 is a Foretravel-designed Unihome chassis with air-operated disc brakes, the Allison six-speed transmission, more load carrying ability. The U240, also Unihome, does not have disc brakes ("wedge" brakes) and has a "torsilastic" suspension system which may present issues if there is a problem (no longer produced) instead of the air-bag suspension.

But I have to say that none of these were designed to accommodate a family of 5 (2 adults and 3 kids). They were, quite frankly, designed for two adults with another couple now and then (or a grandkid or two) who can manage to spend a night on the fold-out sofa. Sleeping arrangements on a permanent basis for 3 kids will be an issue. If any of those coaches have a dinette you might be able to custom-build a bunk in that space.

We lived (and cruised) for 5 years on a 32-foot sailboat with two kids and believe that kids need their own space no matter how small. We had "pilot berths" on either side of the salon that our boy and girl could call their own and retreat to as necessary. This seems to me to be especially true for girls and more important for teens.

Our favorite 12-year-old girl spends time with us in our U225 (think U240 with a smaller engine and an MT643 4-speed tranny) and I think I could remodel one of the U280 basement storage areas as her "bedroom" since she will, from time-to-time retreat to one of ours which are not as tall as on the U280 (by about a foot). Of course, access while moving might be an issue.

Of course, you could always just set up a tent outside.

Craig

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #5 – August 02, 2013, 03:21:27 pm

The owner said it is 250 hp, and a u240. It is the C8.3 with the 6 speed allison w/electric control (I assume retarder?)

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #6 – August 02, 2013, 03:26:51 pm

ORED= Oshkosh chassis Rear Engine Diesel

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #7 – August 02, 2013, 03:27:06 pm

Chris,

#1 looks to be the rig to consider as David suggests. Others are less attractive. Make sure the bulkhead is in good shape, not like the one pictured in a post last week.

My first choice would be a tall rig, 1992 or later U280 or U300 with a 2 cycle Detroit 6V-92TA as #1 with the 8.3 Cummins a good second choice. A side radiator is a huge plus, otherwise, a lot of P.M. is VERY difficult and may not have been done in the past. 102 inches wide is another plus if you have kids or dogs or have a few extra pounds on. The Detroit has 350hp and will pull a trailer much better. The Jake brake is excellent on steep grades with or w/o toad. Potential maintenance costs (Jake vs. retarder) are much less also.

If you are figuring on full timing, a 40 footer would be fine in RV parks but with part timing in mind and living or traveling in the west, a 36' would be my 1st, 2nd and 3rd choices. 40 feet is not nearly as friendly at National Parks, state campgrounds and for any backroad excursions.

Would NEVER think about buying a used fridge. If you look around, a new one is just a bit over $1000. With all the dangers from older RV fridges, you might even consider a residential unit if you think you may be plugged in a lot of the time or will have several solar panels on the roof. Any of the early to mid ninety Foretravel fridges have just about reached the end of their lifespan. Lots of good posts on this forum if you use the "search" tool.

Make sure the model you choose has transmission lockup. Will save fuel and lower both temps in hot weather.

Coaches that have been stored inside with good decals, etc. will always demand a premium price.

Paying a little more than expected for a well maintained coach will almost always be cheaper, perhaps many thousands cheaper in the end.

We love our floor plan but there are really no bad layouts. Having said that, I think the 36' model uses the available space better.

Prices: mid teens to low twenties for an outside storage U280 or U300 with low to mid mileage. Inside storage with excellent decals, gelcoat, complete maint. book and upgrades will see mid to high thirty thousand prices.

Pierce

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #8 – August 02, 2013, 03:36:07 pm

Chris, Five people in a MH is going to be real tight. Don't think I would try it.
If you do try it look for 95 up that are 102 wide, will help with space some, larger cabinets, wider inside too. I am partial to the Cummins but others will Tell you of their success with the Detroit. Stay away from Ford Gassers, nothing but trouble.

Good luck in your search. And yes mine will be for sale in late August, not trying to make a pitch.
Gary B

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #9 – August 02, 2013, 03:39:27 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – August 02, 2013, 02:56:15 pm

Is #1 a U280 or ORED? If U280 and in the the condition you suggest(best of the group), that would be at the top of the list.

Ditto Brett's assessment of the bunch.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #10 – August 02, 2013, 03:52:01 pm

For six months use and money being a factor, I'd buy a used Class C with the large cab over sleeping compartment, and stay in camps with nice facilities. However, if you do end up with a Foretravel, and your kids are young then you should be okay there too, even if you have to rig up a single bed (board and small mattress) for one of them in the evening with the support of the driver and passenger chairs.

I wish you and your family the very best of good luck on this issue.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #11 – August 02, 2013, 04:12:25 pm

Quote from: chrisgruen – August 02, 2013, 03:21:27 pm

The owner said it is 250 hp, and a u240. It is the C8.3 with the 6 speed allison w/electric control (I assume retarder?)

Chris,

Not sure which coach you are talking about. The U240 has a Caterpillar 3116 with 250 HP.

The U280 will have the Cummins 8.3. Could be 250, 300 or 325 HP depending on year. Larger displacement and more torque than 3116 (and, of course uses a little more fuel).

From 1993 on, all Foretravels except U225 and the U300 have the Allison 6 speed electronic transmission. A transmission retarder is another issue and rare in pre 1995 models.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #12 – August 02, 2013, 04:41:49 pm

Thanks Everyone for your advice!
I am most interested in the engines and transmissions, also suspension system.
How much better (or is it) is the 6 speed electric controlled allison than the older 4 speed used in the later 80's?
For engines, option one is what I was referring to as the c8.3, and it is a 250 hp. I talked to the seller and he said he didn't know that it was a U280 because he thinks its just a Grand villa.
The engine has a side radiator.

How much difference is there between the C 8.3 and the cat 3116, both 250hp and in '93 36' models, with the same allison 6 speed?

Also how does the cat 3208 in the '87 compare to the two above? It has an allison 4 speed (mt 643). Also the lowest miles, at about 75k.

As far as room and liveability and space, we will spend a lot of time outside the mh, using it mainly for travel, some meals and sleep.

Thanks again!

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #13 – August 02, 2013, 05:03:43 pm

Not a dig but I can tell you are thinking about gas engines when you are taking low miles. These are all heavy duty diesel engines and if the oil, coolant, filters, etc. are changed correctly, they will go hundreds of thousand of miles. Much longer than you will own it. Think condition as in has it been lived in, undercarriage rust, roof cracks, modifications done in poor taste, etc. A lot of difference between a caring owner and someone who fills the tank and turns the key. Do a forum search for a buyer's checklist. The older it is the better DIYer you have to be unless you have a big plastic limit.

A seller sent us photos with one showing a huge hole in the sofa their dog had worked on for a while. They lived in it and it really showed.

Pierce

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #14 – August 02, 2013, 05:07:42 pm

I am confused. I looked at Beamalarm and cannot find specs for the 93 that this guy has (option one).
He says it has 100 gal fuel tank, c8.3 and is 96" wide, NOT a unihome but a Grandvilla. Can't find anything on there with all these things together--the U280's are 102" wide but have the 8.3, with a 150 gal fuel tank, whereas the U225 and 240 have c5.9 or cat 3116 and 100 gal tanks.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #15 – August 02, 2013, 05:17:43 pm

Chrisgruen, have him take a picture of the plate on the wall next to the drivers seat and post it here and we can tell you alot about what he has. Where is this vehicle posted, we can give you help from that.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #16 – August 02, 2013, 05:47:50 pm

Option one. Best storage, good mileage. Banks kit a great match. The extra money you are dishing out is because its a better coach.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #17 – August 02, 2013, 05:54:09 pm

You are correct. I don't think he knows what he has. Those options don't go together that I've seen. You will be much happier with the storage (and other things) on a Unihome.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #18 – August 02, 2013, 06:10:37 pm

Here is a 1992 (not 1993) ORED-- wonder if this is what he has:
1992 Foretravel Ored Specifications

You can tell at a glance if it is a U280 or ORED. The ORED is on a frame rail chassis. Open a basement and you will see very little storage. Open a U280 and look all the way through, as it is a unibody.

Brett

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #19 – August 02, 2013, 06:35:27 pm

NADA in the past did not adjust value for mileage on Motorhomes

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #20 – August 02, 2013, 06:43:31 pm

Pic!

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #21 – August 02, 2013, 07:50:18 pm

Another way to know what chassis, is to notice if the storage doors are locked on the top or the bottom of the door. All Unihome Grand Villas that I have seen have bottom locks and top hinges. All Oshkosh Grand Villas seem to have top locks, and bottom door hinges.

For width, look at the grills. If the metal sides are almost next to each other about an inch apart, the coach is 96". If there is 6" between the two grills, then a 102" wide body Grand Villa.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #22 – August 02, 2013, 11:35:20 pm

Quote from: chrisgruen – August 02, 2013, 05:07:42 pm

I am confused. I looked at Beamalarm and cannot find specs for the 93 that this guy has (option one).
He says it has 100 gal fuel tank, c8.3 and is 96" wide, NOT a unihome but a Grandvilla. Can't find anything on there with all these things together--the U280's are 102" wide but have the 8.3, with a 150 gal fuel tank, whereas the U225 and 240 have c5.9 or cat 3116 and 100 gal tanks.

All of the U280's (Unihome's) did not have the 148 gallon fuel tank. Some had the 100 gallon.

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #23 – August 02, 2013, 11:55:20 pm

Thanks to everyone again for all the advice and help. Attached is a picture of the plate with the ratings and VIN, this should help clear up the confusion.
Wolfe, I think you are right about the coach being made in 92 but the owner says its registered as a 93 and definitely has the allison 6 speed.
All the good advice is much appreciated!

Chris

Re: which would you choose? Help a newbie please!

Reply #24 – August 03, 2013, 12:01:47 am

The data place tells it all. It is an ORED (the Oshkosh as chassis maker clears that up).

Oshkosh sold out to Freightliner.

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