Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Topic: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal (Read 527 times) previous topic - next topic

Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

September 30, 2013, 01:15:36 pm

Some of you may remember the "cat in the dash" incident that happened about a week or two ago. The next day when I attempted to start the engine in preparation for leaving the S&B for the last time, it was apparent that there was consequences related to either her getting in there or me extracting her from behind the relay panel. Long story shorter, there is a short in the wire that goes from a relay and feeds the instrument lights. When turning the key on, a relay that has three wires (5 wh, 5b wh, & 5c wh, the "wh" apparently just means white) immediately starts popping and the engine won't start. I got around it by disconnecting wire #5 WH from the group of three. Testing it with a meter showed that the wire is grounded somewhere. Without the wire connected, I was able to start the engine, but of course the instruments are disabled. Thank god for VMSPC! Still, when I drove it, I am pretty sure it was down on power quite a bit. Also, when I released the parking brake, the waring bell came on and the waring light indicating the parking brake was applied was lit, even though it obviously was released. So I had to listen to it for 22 miles while I drove it out to the park. Being down on power as compared to my recollection of the previous trip, I had visions of the brake being partially on. I did stop about half way there and couldn't detect any signs of heat build up, but still... Anyway, we plan on being at FOT for the ladies driving school in slightly less than two weeks, so I need to resolve these issues and looking for suggestions on trouble shooting. I am hoping that the parking brake light/warning bell reversal (it doesn't ding when the brake is applied!) is because of the short in wire number 5 wh. My thinking right now is to find where wire #5 wh branches out to all the instruments and try bypassing it with a jumper to the relay. If that works, then I will just run another wire behind the dash and cut out wire #5 wh. Thoughts? Ideas?

Don

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #1 – September 30, 2013, 02:19:35 pm

I hope you had a serious sit-down with the cat about the consequences of bad behavior.

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #2 – September 30, 2013, 02:31:49 pm

Quote from: acousticart – September 30, 2013, 01:15:36 pm

Long story shorter, there is a short in the wire that goes from a relay and feeds the instrument lights. When turning the key on, a relay that has three wires (5 wh, 5b wh, & 5c wh, the "wh" apparently just means white) immediately starts popping and the engine won't start. I got around it by disconnecting wire #5 WH from the group of three. Testing it with a meter showed that the wire is grounded somewhere. Without the wire connected, I was am to start the engine, but of course the instruments are disabled. Thank god for VMSPC! Still, when I drove it, I am pretty sure it was down on power quite a bit. Also, when I released the parking brake, the waring bell came on and the waring light indicating the parking brake was applied was lit, even though it obviously was released.

Looking at our wire list (which may be similar to your coach),

5 WH Gauges, Sw Lights, Warning Bar

5B WH B20 to Retarder R8

5C WH B20 to Keyless Module

Give me a few minutes and I'll see if I can find 5 WH and B20 in our schematics...

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #3 – September 30, 2013, 03:24:09 pm

Don - do you have your B-2179 schematic?

Left hand side, R8 appears to be a relay related to the retarder. 5 WH and 5B WH go to it. 5C WH appears to go to a relay (R12) for entry door unlock. No idea what disconnecting 5 WH (or shorting) 5 WH would do to retarder operation.

I see several connections labeled "5 WH" - which includes 5 WH LTS, 5 WH IGN, etc. in the center of the drawing.

Might be a good idea to give James Triana or Mark Harvey a call at FOT.

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #4 – September 30, 2013, 06:40:56 pm

Thanks for the input Michelle! I don't have a B–2179 page in my schematics. The most relevant page that I have is drawing number B–2198 and it is entitled U270 E28 12 volt wiring diagram. Wire numbers 5B and 5C are connected as before. The only one I disconnected is five without a suffix, although if the retarder was being engaged while I was trying to accelerate up hills, it would certainly explain why it felt down on power! My wire list shows wire number five as being for gages, SW lights, and warning bar. 5B is for B20 to retarderR3, and 5C is B20 to keyless module... which our coach does not have. I am trying to figure out where wire number five actually starts branching out to all those those gauges and the warning bar. Wire number 5 wh is shown as +12 V in the warning bar detail page A-4749, so I'm quite sure it is not supposed to be grounded which it is now.

Quote from: Michelle – September 30, 2013, 03:24:09 pm

Don - do you have your B-2179 schematic?

Left hand side, R8 appears to be a relay related to the retarder. 5 WH and 5B WH go to it. 5C WH appears to go to a relay (R12) for entry door unlock. No idea what disconnecting 5 WH (or shorting) 5 WH would do to retarder operation.

I see several connections labeled "5 WH" - which includes 5 WH LTS, 5 WH IGN, etc. in the center of the drawing.

Might be a good idea to give James Triana or Mark Harvey a call at FOT.

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #5 – September 30, 2013, 06:56:14 pm

Hmm. I'm with Carol! A major sit down with the cat. And I would ask Him/Her, where did #5 wire go to before you tore it out!

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #6 – September 30, 2013, 06:59:54 pm

Carol, I did have a very serious discussion with Moonshadow. Although she acted very contrite, she petulantly refused to go back in there to undo the damage she had done. The most I could get from her was some enthusiastic licking of my arm..

Quote from: Carol Savournin – September 30, 2013, 02:19:35 pm

I hope you had a serious sit-down with the cat about the consequences of bad behavior.

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #7 – September 30, 2013, 07:16:25 pm

Remind her that passengers small enough to gain access to restricted areas are also the right size to be skinned and made into slippers! No scooting into forbidden area! This is a non-negtiable clause in the passenger / carrier contract.

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #8 – October 01, 2013, 12:18:02 am

Well, I started tracing wire #5 WH back from the warning bar, cutting zip ties as I went. I didn't find anything conclusive, but when I reconnected wire # 5 WH at the relay panel, things were acting normally again.

The parking brake indicator, the gages, etc. all working properly. I wish I had found a definitive cause, but at this point, I am just going to do some careful wire management and make sure that nothing is touching ground... weird.
Don

Foretravel Owners' Forum For owners and Fans of Foretravel Motorcoaches September 10, 2025 ...

Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

September 30, 2013, 01:15:36 pm

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #1 – September 30, 2013, 02:19:35 pm

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #2 – September 30, 2013, 02:31:49 pm

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #3 – September 30, 2013, 03:24:09 pm

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #4 – September 30, 2013, 06:40:56 pm

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #5 – September 30, 2013, 06:56:14 pm

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #6 – September 30, 2013, 06:59:54 pm

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #7 – September 30, 2013, 07:16:25 pm

Re: Wire 5 WH, Cats, and Parking brake warning reversal

Reply #8 – October 01, 2013, 12:18:02 am

Affiliate Notice