Steering Gear Seals

Topic: Steering Gear Seals (Read 933 times) previous topic - next topic

Steering Gear Seals

October 05, 2013, 12:45:34 am

We are in Billings, MT. A seal in the steering gear failed and the system is losing fluid too fast to allow driving any significant distance. Can anyone recommend a shop in Billings that might have the expertise and willingness to replace the top seal in a Sheppard power steering unit? I think the unit is the M100.

The unit was replaced with a factory rebuilt gear in 2011 at FOT. It worked well until today. In less that 50 miles, possibly less than 10 miles, it lost enough oil that steering became difficult and the engine temperature rose because the cooling fans quit working. I can see oil coming out the top of the unit where the shaft from the steering wheel enters the box. It appears that it can be fixed without removing the gear from the coach.

I welcome suggestions on repair. We made it to our campground, but won't be leaving town until the leak is fixed.

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #1 – October 05, 2013, 03:44:56 am

Any big truck spares company will have seals for your unit,

Also any bearing distributors will also have the seals,

I bought a complete set of seals, Circlips and every thing else for the steering box repair, It cost me $127-00

From a Truck Steering Repair company, Took two days as it came from the other side of the country,

My steering Dumps 5 litres of steering fluid on the ground every time a hose blows, $50-00 worth of oil, Not Happy,

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #2 – October 05, 2013, 08:06:51 am

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – October 05, 2013, 12:45:34 am

We are in Billings, MT. A seal in the steering gear failed and the system is losing fluid too fast to allow driving any significant distance. Can anyone recommend a shop in Billings that might have the expertise and willingness to replace the top seal in a Sheppard power steering unit? I think the unit is the M100.

Dave,

No personal experience to share, but Chris and Cherie of Technomadia had a complete engine rebuild at Interstate Power Systems there in Billings and were highly complimentary of the shop. In reading their blog, Interstate was recommended by a number of the bus conversion forum folk. You might ping them.

On the Road Again!!!! | Technomadia

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #3 – October 05, 2013, 09:23:53 am

I know nothing about this place but it advertises as the place to go for RV service. Just off the freeway, 2790 Gabel Rd, RV Inc., 406 652-6339. Coming from the east, looks like the easiest route would be to stay on the freeway until you go past it to Zoo Drive, right to Gabel road, then right on Gabel road. This is more on the west side of Billings.

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #4 – October 05, 2013, 10:55:18 am

I bought my parts from this company in Columbus,Ohio; For less than $ 75.00 ,They also rebuild or can supply rebuilt units. Here is a link; Power Steering SpecialistsPower Steering Specialists | We Steer You Right

They may be able to advise of a repair shop in your area as they are the distributors for Sheppard...

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #5 – October 05, 2013, 11:02:52 am

Particularly if there is any play in the steering box, consider having it blueprinted while out by these folks. No first hand info, but recommended by Precision Alignment, Henderson, etc: Red-Head Steering Gears

Brett

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #6 – October 05, 2013, 12:57:24 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I plan to contact Hanser's (Hanser's Automotive & Wrecker Co.) on Monday morning. They are about three blocks down the street from our campground. They are a warranty repair facility for HWH, Tiffin, and Workhorse. They are also affiliated with Coach-Net. I'll see if they will replace the faulty seal in the Sheppard unit, or recommend someone in the area who will do it.

Our travel plan is to leave Billings on Wednesday and head for home in Texas. We'll see if they can fix our issue on Monday and Tuesday. I can fill the hydraulic reservoir and drive the three blocks to their shop if required. They also have road service trucks. I plan to see if they can fix the seal with the steering gear in place. The handling has been great since the last alignment by Wayne at FOT. A the same time we balanced wheels and added Centramatics. The steering gear was rebuilt at the Sheppard factory and installed in 2011. Since we are pleased with handling, I don't plan use Red-Head for a blueprint rebuild. I just want to get a good seal to replace the one that failed.

I'll update the thread after we have some results. Meanwhile, we expect to enjoy some fine time with family in Billings. We've had a great trip so far. We expect to continue the fine adventure after a repair here at our destination.

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #7 – October 05, 2013, 06:17:14 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – October 05, 2013, 12:45:34 am

I welcome suggestions on repair. We made it to our campground, but won't be leaving town until the leak is fixed.

This might be some help.
Sheppard Steering Gear Troubleshooting

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #8 – October 10, 2013, 09:57:39 pm

Hanser's in Billings replaced the top seal in the steering gear without completely removing the gear. They were friendly and aimed to please except for my request to make an adjustment on the steering gear after the repair. The supervisor refused to make and adjustment citing "liability issues."

The unit had been replaced at FOT with a remanufactured unit from the Sheppard factory in December, 2011. I called FOT and Sheppard to see if there might be any warranty coverage. There was none. However, the field service rep at Sheppard told me that the only reason a top (input shaft) seal will fail catastrophically, as ours did, would be if the "pressure relief plungers" were not properly set and the steering hit the turn limits before a plunger released pressure. The failure was sudden and significant. Our last rest stop was about 50 miles from destination. All was OK. I stopped for fuel at six miles from destination. The side of the coach and the towed were covered with oil. At about two miles from destination, the engine temperature came up because the radiator fans quit working. We dumped about 3 1/2 gallons of 15W40 in 50 miles.

The supervisor at Hanser's refused to check or adjust the plungers after the repair. I've studied the manual and videos. I plan for Marilyn and I to check/set the plungers after we are home from this trip. Meanwhile, I will try my best to avoid any "full stop" excursions of the steering system on our way home. We have about 1200 miles of travel to get home. If all goes well, we can check the plunger settings before heading to the Mid-South Rally next week.

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #9 – October 10, 2013, 10:52:54 pm

Checking and adjusting the plunger is really very easy. There are two tiny standard screws on the outside of the Sheppard M100 box-- one on top, one on the bottom where it is easy to see. So, a small standard screwdriver is the only tool unless you would feel better having a 1/4" piece of metal or anything else as a "feeler gauge" to measure clearance.

One of the small screws adjusts cut angle to the left, the other to the right. Sorry, can't remember which screw does which direction, but temporarily turn the bottom one in 2 full turns and you should see very quickly which it is.

Screwing it in limits cut angle, screwing it out increases cut angle.

With the steering wheel turned to the limit there should be a gap of about 1/4" between the stop on the steering knuckle and the axle. The rep is correct, if the steering gear is able to turn the knuckle to where it hits the axle, bad things can happen-- it is then hydraulic pressure vs solid metal.

If there is an indication that a tire is rubbing, you will want to move in (limit travel) of both the stop and the screw on the steering box.

If plenty of clearance between tire and body, you can turn both out to gain cut angle.

Brett

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #10 – October 11, 2013, 05:31:59 am

Thank you for the confirmation, Brett. The Sheppard manual and video recommend 1/8" clearance at the axle stops. Your recommendation is a bit more conservative at 1/4".

I will look for any tire or other obstruction issues when we work on it. We are running recommended size of Michelin tires, so I would expect no obstructions. However, with a 1997 coach, who knows what might have been adjusted in the past.

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #11 – October 11, 2013, 09:30:17 am

In a perfect world, all you need is SOME clearance. My 1/4" is just on the conservative side to account for any component wear that could cause play to push metal to metal.

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #12 – October 14, 2013, 10:07:29 pm

Brett, thanks for the suggestion.

Marilyn and I adjusted the relief plungers today. It took about an hour. I turned the bottom adjuster in about two turns and changed clearance from almost nothing to about 1/4". I turned the top adjuster in about 1 3/4 turns to change clearance from around 1/8" to about 1/4". After adjustment, Marilyn could turn hard on the steering wheel and not hit the "hard" (turn) stops. We could hear a change in sound when the pressure was relieved.

Information on adjustment is available from Sheppard here: Videos. There are also manuals on line.

We will be much more comfortable driving the coach now. The catastrophic failure of the seal that was an expensive inconvenience could have been a very expensive trip stopper had it been farther from our destination. According the the Sheppard representative, a failure of the top (input shaft) seal is almost always caused by the steering system hitting the axle stop before the plunger is engaged.

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #13 – October 15, 2013, 12:38:15 am

Note, there are two options on the adjustments-- you can "narrow" the steering box's cut angles as you did, OR

If, repeat IF you have plenty of clearance between tires and chassis and body components at full wheel cut, you can "widen" the stop by screwing it in-- gives more cut angle.

Or as I generally do-- play with both-- the idea is to have maximum cut angles while retaining reasonable clearance between the tire and anything it might contact while keeping that 1/8-1/4" clearance between the stop and axle with the steering at full stop.

It actually sounds more complicated than it is when you get under there. I always start by seeing if the stop is properly placed, since I always want the max cut angles I can safely get. Do not ASSUME that this has been fine-tuned by any factory.

Brett

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #14 – October 15, 2013, 01:08:01 am

I tell you this is why having many top notch people on this forum is worth a fortune to us all.
I will be checking mine before the next trip for sure just for safety and knowledge.
John H

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #15 – October 17, 2013, 06:39:43 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – October 15, 2013, 12:38:15 am

Or as I generally do-- play with both-- the idea is to have maximum cut angles while retaining reasonable clearance between the tire and anything it might contact while keeping that 1/8-1/4" clearance between the stop and axle with the steering at full stop.

It actually sounds more complicated than it is when you get under there. I always start by seeing if the stop is properly placed, since I always want the max cut angles I can safely get. Do not ASSUME that this has been fine-tuned by any factory.

Brett

Whoa....good info here. Definitely on the check list, thanks Brett.

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Steering Gear Seals

October 05, 2013, 12:45:34 am

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #1 – October 05, 2013, 03:44:56 am

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #2 – October 05, 2013, 08:06:51 am

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #3 – October 05, 2013, 09:23:53 am

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #4 – October 05, 2013, 10:55:18 am

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #5 – October 05, 2013, 11:02:52 am

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #6 – October 05, 2013, 12:57:24 pm

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #7 – October 05, 2013, 06:17:14 pm

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #8 – October 10, 2013, 09:57:39 pm

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #9 – October 10, 2013, 10:52:54 pm

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #10 – October 11, 2013, 05:31:59 am

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #11 – October 11, 2013, 09:30:17 am

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #12 – October 14, 2013, 10:07:29 pm

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #13 – October 15, 2013, 12:38:15 am

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Reply #14 – October 15, 2013, 01:08:01 am

Re: Steering Gear Seals

Reply #15 – October 17, 2013, 06:39:43 pm

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