To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Topic: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa (Read 2764 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #25 – October 13, 2013, 07:31:03 pm

There isn't anything I need to get to that's obstructed by the radiator in my coach. I specifically looked for items that I should service while I had the radiator out. The alternator is on the top of my engine and is easily changed in a matter of minutes, I did it just the other day. I've never changed the water pump and I don't know of anyone on this forum that ever has changed a 6V92 water pump. I suspect I can change it from the bottom of the engine. I'll look at that again the next time I'm down there. The water pump is not a normal maintenance item, it's a repair. Most readers on this forum would pay a mechanic to do a repair like that. It would be silly to pay an extra $10,000+ to buy a coach with failure prone hydraulic fans with no parts availability just so a mechanic could change a water pump a little easier once every 20+ years. My water pump is 24 years old and it's still the original and it works great. The idler pulley and belt tensioner is accessed from the top of the engine and it's a one man job. I've done it myself and it's not difficult at all. There are two thermostats on the 6V92 and they're both on top of the cylinder heads where they can be accessed with the bed up. Again, the thermostats are a repair, not normal maintenance, and most readers on this forum will hire a mechanic for that. The 6V92 with rear radiator has a pneumatic fan clutch that freewheels the fan until the temperature in the passenger side cylinder head gets hot enough, then it begins to engage. The fan clutch seldom runs the fan at full speed. If I'm not mistaken the side radiator models have belt driven hydraulic pumps, so the hydraulic resistance is added to the belt resistance. Hydraulics are very inefficient so I'm guessing this wastes a lot more horsepower than just a belt around a pneumatic clutch. The hydraulic pump, motors, and hoses add a lot of extra weight, cost, complexity, leakage and mechanical failures to the cooling system. There's no way I'd ever buy a coach with hydraulic fans now that I've worked on my coach with the belt driven fan. If you guys haven't actually removed a rear radiator and seen what's back there please don't provide false information. Readers want to base their purchase on accurate information. I got this same false information about the side radiator being superior to the rear radiator before I bought my coach. In my case it didn't matter because I couldn't afford a side radiator model anyway... and I'm sooo glad

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #26 – October 13, 2013, 07:36:30 pm

I purchased a 1992 36' GV Unihome a little over a year ago. Since I bought it I have rebuilt the brakes, installed a new rear torsilatic suspension, inverter/controlled battery charger, 5,000 watt second inverter, new front furnace and water heater, and new tires all the way around..

I expected to do the foregoing and still have some work to do on less major issues.

I have driven it almost 6,000 miles and I would not trade it for anything.

I frequently drive in Wyoming (the state where if the wind stops blowing the citizens fall over) and found that it is one of the best vehicles on the open road in the high wind I have driven in over 1,000,000 miles of driving including about 500,00 in an eighteen wheeler.

In my opinion it would be very difficult to go wrong buying a GV of any vintage.

Have at it and enjoy, they are built like a Sherman tank but handle like a large pickup.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #27 – October 13, 2013, 07:46:14 pm

Rory;

Thanks for the birthday wish and Sempher Fi. BTW if, correction, when you get your FT be sure to make it to Virginia just south of Wash DC, to the Marine Corp Museum, but plan on spending at least 2 days we have to go back. It is not owned or operated by the government.

We got our U270 at MOT, Great people. As is said in my original post it was the floor level for us. After putting several miles on the coach I began liking it even more. Just can't say enough good things about FT. Our previous coach was a rear radiator, gettin to old to be climbing down into that compartment to do some services.

Anyway good luck in finding the FT you want. Listen to the folks on this forum they are very knowledgeable and have lots of miles behind them. A day doesn't go by that I don't read this forum. Fantastic information.

Norm

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #28 – October 13, 2013, 08:55:11 pm

Quote from: JohnFitz – October 13, 2013, 05:20:43 pm

Brett, I agree about accessibility being easier with a side radiator, but the 6V92 on the U300s does have thermostatic air valve that engages an air clutch on the fan pulley hub.

John, I don't believe my 93, U300 has a thermostatic air valve or a fan pulley hub. Are you sure all years of 6V92's have them? I could be wrong?

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #29 – October 13, 2013, 09:04:42 pm

Thanks Norm. Yes, I have been to the Marine Corps Museum a couple of times, but would love to go again. I'm sure we will get up that way again once we get our FT.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #30 – October 13, 2013, 09:09:33 pm

Rory,
Another member of the USMC, I live within 75 miles of the museum and never been there, shame on me. My question, parking for the Coach an issue or not ? and is there miles of walking ?
Thanks
Dave M

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #31 – October 13, 2013, 09:49:49 pm

Semper Fi Dave. You definitely need to check it out. I would say no, as far as parking. I know they have large groups of tours show up there all of the time. And from what I remember it has a big open parking lot. No, it's pretty well contained in one huge building. They are putting more and more statues outside surrounding the Memorial but not too far apart. And, if you do get tired of walking, you can always stop by Tun Tavern and have a cold one and take a break.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #32 – October 13, 2013, 09:57:10 pm

Thanks for all of the great info. Now, what are your thoughts on the different engines in the GVs? I did a lot of negative information on the 300hp Cat engine. How about the Cummins 8.3 300hp, the 6v92ta and any other engines that might come in the GVs. Do any of them come with over 350hp? how about transmissions? are there any that I should avoid?

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #33 – October 13, 2013, 10:11:04 pm

Quote from: Kent Speers – October 13, 2013, 08:55:11 pm

John, I don't believe my 93, U300 has a thermostatic air valve or a fan pulley hub. Are you sure all years of 6V92's have them? I could be wrong?

Kent,

Yours should be like ours and when looking at the engine, you should see two vertical rows of 7 threaded holes right in the middle of the engine. All the stuff for the rear radiator bolts on here. Ours is empty but could be used for an extra alternator or something as the crankshaft pulley has lots of spare grooves on it.

I like your idea of using the front heater plumbing for extra cooling with front radiators. Sure would be nice to send a couple of 2" tubes to the front and mount a couple of tall aluminum radiators with electric fans and get rid of the whole hydraulic pump/fan system. VW Vanagons did it without any problem and Mexico VW factory did it with earlier model VW vans with a radiator added in a nice neat package in the front. With the grills already open for the vehicle AC and the removable Fiberglas panels on the bottom, ram air would do most of the cooling while underway. With the side or rear radiator, there is no free air from the forward travel of the coach. Would gain about 30hp and estimate a half mpg too.

Pierce

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #34 – October 13, 2013, 10:23:40 pm

Reese,

You asked about hp, and we all seem to want more. But try to remember that for almost any year Foretravel you might look at, you are likely to see a lower pound to hp than the SOB on the market. Foretravel ordered their engines with more hp than other manufactures. Take that with the slope nose of the GV, the lower height of either a GV or Unicoach, and the lighter weight often than the other brands as well. I know that people are towing enclosed trailers with 4 motorcycles, and 2 couples on trips out west without much issue.

The whole need for more hp, has been driven by the ever heavier coaches being offered. My 98 has less pounds per hp to move than almost any newer coach for sale today.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #35 – October 13, 2013, 10:48:33 pm

Quote from: rpettway – October 13, 2013, 09:57:10 pm

Thanks for all of the great info. Now, what are your thoughts on the different engines in the GVs? I did a lot of negative information on the 300hp Cat engine. How about the Cummins 8.3 300hp, the 6v92ta and any other engines that might come in the GVs. Do any of them come with over 350hp? how about transmissions? are there any that I should avoid?

All the engines are good in the later GVs. The 5.9 Cummins "B" engine is used with great success in pickup trucks, UPS trucks, you name it. Excellent engine for reliability and economy but not enough cubic inches for the heavy, wide and tall GV models. The CATs, 8.3 Cummins and 350hp Detroit 6V-92 are all excellent and with proper maintenance, outlast the owner. The 2 cycle 6V-92TA is my favorite but others will fly the flag of their favorites. All the engines sleep most of the time in light duty RV applications so they should last forever if you take care of them.

CAT parts are the most expensive, Detroit 2 cycle parts the least with Cummins fairly reasonable.

Would not worry about more HP as the stock cooling system is OK most of the year but hard pressed to handle 350hp in hot summer weather on long grades. In other words, you have to gear down and slow down to avoid heating the engine. Some members have employed small nozzles to spray water on the radiator to give an extra margin of safety.

Note: the older U300s had 300hp but only moving the radiator to the side allowed them to bring the power up to 350hp.

Here is a good read on most of our engines: Marine Engines - Comparing Diesel Types: Two Cycle, Four Cycle Note that some engines will produce almost twice the horsepower in a boat. The cooling from the ocean lets the engine produce more power but stay within operating limits.

The Allison transmissions are excellent. The later models have lockup part way through 2nd gear with 3rd and 4th locked up. The transmission runs much cooler, engine then can run cooler, better mpg and best of all, it's like having an afterburner when it goes into lockup. Everything even, a 6 speed beats a 4 speed as the ratios between gears are closer so you have have a better chance of having the perfect gear available when climbing grades. Some models like our U300 were not available with 6 speeds but I find it has plenty of power for the hills with the 4 speed. And no, 6 speed transmissions don't drop the RPMs at cruising speed. Final drive is the same. Just have more ratios between 1st and high gear. Bottom line is, make sure the transmission can lockup in the model you are interested in.

Pierce

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #36 – October 13, 2013, 11:51:43 pm

Quote from: Dave and Dolly Cobb – October 13, 2013, 05:35:45 pm

We have had both styles, a GV Unihome, and now a Unicoach. The GV fit our entry budget to see how much we might enjoy and use a RV.

Had for 2 years the U225 GV, and we loved the style, the cleaner front end after a day's travel, and the mid door entry. The raised driver and passenger seat were wonderful for traveling views. The wife enjoyed having her "copilot nest" that was not the entry like on a forward door coach. The 36' length was perfect for the places we wedged it into as well.

Down side was the rear radiator, non disc brakes, non air bag suspension, and smaller bays. But those items were not deal killers for our first try. There are many happy owners with more miles on those coaches than I hoped to ever drive.

Our upgrade this year to a Unicoach, got us the side radiator, air bags, disc brakes, taller bays, and much more. We were lucky to find one of the very rare mid door 36' Unicoaches made. We have so enjoyed the flat floor, and the additional space gained with the flat front design.

It has been mentioned, know your budget, have your reserve, then look at every Foretravel you can find, both for sale and not, to know when you find the "right one".

Unfortunately if we mention our mutual preference for a mid door it might stop the original poster from enjoying any later model Foretravel product he will likely find.

Lots of good, first person, experience here. Budget and availability will govern your choice it seems.

Exactly what happened to us. We were not in the market for any Rv and had not been in a coach or used one from 1995 to 2012.

Then my old friend Roger Tischendorf from my days at Foretravel of California called to talk about current events and mentioned that our mutual buddy Brad Nerhous had taken in a nice unicoach on trade and were we by chance interested?

Not really was my first response. Ok..... Tell me more? Hmmmm.

Dangerous. Ok we will look at the coach which was an hour away from us.

I laughed when we saw the coach. A U320 with flat floor,no slides, aqua hot, retarder, m11, dual pane windows, gelcoat...ducted air, heat strips not heat pumps. Rear air not in the bedroom. Side by side dometic refer...

Exactly what I wanted. Old school. But current. Sort of.

Oh and the final thing for me as we were used to and preferred mid entry and the coach had been specially ordered with a mid door.

I laughed. Must have been meant to be. In a perfect world it would have been a 36' for the ease of driving but the non slide 40' is a really nice floor plan and is full- timeable.

Call brad at interwest in Colorado as he has a lot of Foretravel contacts. Most would be later but you never know. Roger is the other guy.

This coach has required a lot of care and feeding but the basic structure was in perfect condition. Only the systems needed maintenance. No deal killers,

But as a former manager for Foretravel the work it needed was exactly what I expected.

Between everyone here and FOT and MOT and Extreme and others any coach should come out ok...

You won't know most of the time until you own one.

I used to have customers want to custom order first time coaches. I always recommended that they use a coach like Foretravel made it. Until you see what is important to you and how you use a coach its hard to know.

Jump....moderation is for monks.

Bob

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #37 – October 14, 2013, 12:35:52 am

Rory,

Welcome to the forum. I am sure by now you have discovered there are great people here. They all helped me so much during my ordeal. We had never even camped or RV'ed before. Since we purchased our Matilda the 94/U225 we took two trips & we loved it. Health & Prosperity provided I hope to always own one FT. After looking at RV's ( all kinds) for about 5 years, this past June I purchased mine from MOT. I have a 94/U225; it was/is the entry level GV. When I finally made up my mind to pull the trigger for us it had to be a Grand Villa but up until the last moment I contemplated about buying a 96,98 or 99 models (270, 295, 300) because they have more powerful engine, diesel generators, 6 speed trany, air bags, retarder, etc.
At the end when I was standing in the MOT parking lot with several Foretravel's parked around the 94/U225 I purchased .... how would I say ... it spoke to me "take me home" I don't regret it. Since I purchased it I have done quit a bit of improvements to it, some are want and some had to be done. I still have to do the upholstery and TV's and I may even do a full body & roof paint to it. Now I am not sure when but I hope to upgrade someday, as much as I love ours and I am spending more than most will say it deserves it .... "you will never get your money back" and I only have it since June, I constantly look at the 96-99 models when I see them for sale. At the time when you are ready to purchase yours, I would say do yourself a favor and buy the latest and greatest model that your can effort; I am saying this because it is a Foretravel. Moment you buy one, you are going to realize even more that how great they are and you may regret you did not spend the money you could spend for perhaps one model up. This was/is my situation. I could effort a bit more but I hesitated. I also got a bit inpatient at the end i wanted one and getting one from MOT was too easy for me because they had one and they were only 220mil from me. Right after i purchased it there were 3 great ones come on sale. Thank God nothing is lost because what I have is a Foretravel, I have no doubt I can sell it even if I had to take few dollars loss and I can upgrade.... but for now we love having Matilda and with all i have already done to it, it will be too hard to part with it. I ask my wife, if i can have another one, but she say i can only have one girlfriend at a time :-)
Also as folks here have already mentioned make sure you have some money in reserves to be able to handle some unseen expenses after the purchase or anything you would want to do to it; I would say +/- 7K.
Enjoy the experience & you will enjoy the ride :-)
Good Luck,
AL

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #38 – October 14, 2013, 11:50:38 am

If this is in your range take a look at it. Owner is a member here and he knows his stuff. I believe it is one of the good ones out there. Other members will be able to tell you about it too; well known owner & GV.
1995 Foretravel U280 /360, Conyers GA - 110951133 - RVTrader.com

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #39 – October 14, 2013, 11:58:23 am

Thanks Al. I have seen this one. I am leaning more towards a 40' because we still have kids that will be traveling with us and I think we will need all of the room we can get. I also like the 93 U280 that is on here. Has some real nice upgrades and appears to be well taken care of.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #40 – October 14, 2013, 12:48:10 pm

Rory - FWIW - we have two boys, ages 12 and 15 - and we have a 36' U295. We do short-duration trips (weekends, football games, 1-2 weeks max otherwise). For us, the 36' has been fine.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #41 – October 14, 2013, 01:34:19 pm

You may have seen this one too. I don't know anything about it ( it is fairly close to me) They were asking 45K since June.
Now it is 37.9. It is a 40'

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #42 – October 14, 2013, 05:02:40 pm

I will add, retarder a great feature and 179K miles no big deal. Tire and battery dates would be good to know, Gary a regular here, likely excellent maintenance.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #43 – October 14, 2013, 05:04:35 pm

Have had 36 and 40, either will suit you well, most of additional room in mine in bathroom and kitchen. That being said, I like the 40 better, but mostly it is the slide and aquahot.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #44 – October 14, 2013, 09:44:41 pm

We have a 91 GV with the 300 horse Cat engine. Would like to know the negative factors with that engine. It is also a side mounted radiator with a hydraulic fan motor driven by the steering hydraulics. I'm having trouble thinking of any problem with the engine or cooling arrangement ---- Am I missing something?? Thanks and have a great day ---- Fritz

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #45 – October 14, 2013, 09:59:17 pm

Hi Fritz. First, let me start by saying I don't know much about any of the engines other than what I read on here or online in other forums. I searched that engine because I found a FT with that engine and wanted to know more about it. There were a couple of posts in a forum (don't recall which one) that said the 300hp Cat was not a very good engine. I'm glad to hear that you are happy with yours and have not had any issues. There are always 2 sides to every story. I'm happy for you that your side is good! have a great day.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #46 – October 14, 2013, 10:30:44 pm

Quote from: fkjohns6083 – October 14, 2013, 09:44:41 pm

We have a 91 GV with the 300 horse Cat engine. Would like to know the negative factors with that engine. It is also a side mounted radiator with a hydraulic fan motor driven by the steering hydraulics. I'm having trouble thinking of any problem with the engine or cooling arrangement ---- Am I missing something?? Thanks and have a great day ---- Fritz

The engine should last forever in your coach. If you put them side by side, the CAT V8 is a pretty small engine, only about two thirds the size of a 6V-92TA. It has a parent bore (no sleeves). Some shops don't like them as much as they are more difficult to overhaul as the engine has to be removed from the vehicle and you need a really experienced shop to have sleeves installed and last a long time. The side radiator should provide plenty of cooling for 300 hp in most any weather and or grade.

Pierce

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #47 – October 15, 2013, 07:32:27 am

The ONLY issue I've ever heard of with the 3208 is that since the exh springs are light an exh brake doesn't work as well as on later engines. They are a great engine that will run forever with decent maintenance.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #48 – October 15, 2013, 08:06:23 am

I had a 3208 Cat in a 85 ORED that was problem free, not the fastest but reliable as h.... Other than swearing at the number of belts and how hard it was to change and tension them I had zero problems. Drove it all over the country on all kinds of passes and hills. If it had not been totaled in an accident I would probably still have it.
Gary B

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #49 – October 15, 2013, 11:02:09 am

Yep, I guess belts are always a problem and as you know there are 7 belts to keep track of. Good news is that they are doubled up in most cases and that adds to reliability. I use a belt dressing which also keeps them running longer. Carrying spares is also good insurance. Thanks and have a great day ---- Fritz

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