To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

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To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

October 13, 2013, 02:10:32 am

I continue to search for a Foretravel. I have looked at MOT, FOT, Foreforum, Oodle, RVT, and practically every Craigslist add in the US. Initially, I didn't even bother looking at the GV because I didn't really like the appearance. But, after looking at them more and more, they are kind of growing on me. Especially after seeing a couple on this post with updated full body paint. So, my question to you, the experts, is what are the advantages/disadvantages to owning a GV as opposed to the mid to late 90s model U270/U295/U320? My friend that introduced me to Foretravels several months ago had driven many different models and said that he liked the GV because you sit up so high when you drive them. I would love to hear your thoughts on this subject. Especially those of you that have owned both styles.

Thanks,

Rory

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #1 – October 13, 2013, 07:59:00 am

They made a Grandvillas style up to about 02 or 03. So you can have a GV newer as well. Some of the bigger differences is lighter mostly mechanical engines all are mid entry and the seem to get better fuel milage too.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #2 – October 13, 2013, 08:03:16 am

We like to cook outside a lot so having the mid-entry door by the kitchen makes it a lot easier to pass things in and out. It keeps the foot traffic down in the living room area as well.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #3 – October 13, 2013, 08:23:25 am

Good Morning:

We considered the GV style for the reason they were less in initial cost. However after looking at numerous pictures of the inside we decided to go with the late 90's model. The reason is the DW has some disabilities and could not get up that large step to the co-pilot seat. We ended up with our 98' U270 and she has no problem. We also like the flat front. Also the front entry is easier for her to climb.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #4 – October 13, 2013, 08:43:07 am

Greetings

Grand Villas are Cool! Always have folks asking about our coach.

Stylish looking, simple systems, easy upgrades

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #5 – October 13, 2013, 10:00:44 am

I really liked my 1999 36'Gran Villa, and agree you sit up high. It was on Oshkosh chassis, and I would only consider a UniHome, not an OshKosh based chassis if I was looking now. The 1999 36 U-270 drove better, had more storage, and is more "modern looking" Being newer, upgrades are easier to rationalize. Perfect coach for us is the one we have 200 U-320 with a single slide.

Mid entry means you dont have as long a walk to the bathroom and kitchen when you first enter, which in 90% of the time are your primary initial destinations. Sitting up high very cool, but TV is usual down low, I do like it up high.

What does your budget allow? Late nineties Uni coach vs early nineties UniHome with a bunch of upgrades similar in coast IF you find one that already has nice Full Body Paint like Kent Speers has.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #6 – October 13, 2013, 11:44:05 am

Happy Birthday Norm. Thank you for your service.

Rory

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #7 – October 13, 2013, 11:44:26 am

With any used motorhome, the initial expenditure is only the start unless you are a good DIYer. Even then, there are many little things that still will go wrong and older systems that WILL need upgrading. So, of the total RV budget, spend less on the coach with some cash set aside for a new fridge, roof ACs, tires, air bags, etc. Finding a good rig is the next step with many looking pretty good but needing work. I would avoid any from the northern states as many (but not all) will have corrosion damage underneath. Corrosion and or bulkhead damage may mean oil changes, etc. were not watched that carefully too.

GV vs. Bus Style: I love the look of the GV with it's deco styling. Not the best design for the decals but like you posted, a good paint job can do wonders. The U280/300 has a seating position several inches higher than any big rig, RV or fire truck. It's way up there. Great for sightseeing but also has a bit of a learning curve judging lane position, speed plus a small blind spot below the passenger's mirror.

The GV has wasted space in the nose. With a little bit better planning, a generator could have been installed there and would have given an extra compartment for storage. 102"s wide is also a plus. Mid entry is better if you spend a lot of time outside in campgrounds. EZ access to the kitchen with beer only a few seconds away. I would only consider a side radiator coach as the rear radiator makes maintenance really difficult. If I had a rear radiator, the first thing I would do would be to put it on the roof (like some Euro buses) or plumb for a couple of nose radiators.

36' vs 40': I love our 36 footer but with a large family, RV paved campground overnights, the 40 footer is good with more storage inside and below and has the washer/dryer. If you live out west, the National Parks and state facilities have limited access for anything over 36 feet. 36' is easier to drive in cities, especially if sightseeing off the metro bus routes where tight turns in heavy traffic may pop up.

Propane water heater is my choice. It may be a little noisy but if the Aquahot goes down in a remote location, you may be in trouble as service can be hundreds of miles away. We have an extra propane heater in the main salon just in case the OEM goes south.

So, my first choice is a 1993 or later U300 36' long with a U280 right in there too. The U300 with the 6V-92TA is a little better for pulling a trailer or high altitude but the Cummins 8.3 is also a good engine. 1995 and later CATs would be also good. Lower profile GVs with the 5.9 Cummins are also excellent with better fuel mileage in mixed driving. Be prepared to go anywhere in the U.S. to take delivery. These are not high volume motorhomes so finding a perfect one takes time but well worth the effort.

Pierce

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #8 – October 13, 2013, 11:52:51 am

Thanks Pierce. How do you know whether the radiator is side mounted or rear mounted?

Rory

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #9 – October 13, 2013, 12:03:31 pm

Rory, I have driven both and for ease of driving and overall confort in the drivers seat I love the GV ( mine is for sale ). I love the looks I get from the truckers when I pass them and look at them at eye level. And you can see over the traffic ahead of you much better. Except for minor blind spots the visibility is better in my opinion in a GV, you just have to learn to MISTRUST your mirrors and rely on your minute to minute observation of traffic around you ( true in all coaches ).
The rear radiator and big hatch for the engine are a definite plus in the GV Unihomes.
Gary B

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #10 – October 13, 2013, 12:13:23 pm

Gary, you say the rear radiator is a plus, I would surely prefer the side radiator, allowing access to the engine. The rear radiator makes for big misery to access the engine ?

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #11 – October 13, 2013, 12:49:32 pm

Let me clarify. There are Granvillas with side radiators and those with rear radiators. All U225's are rear radiator. Some pre 1993 other models are rear radiator.

Yes, a side radiator makes engine access a LOT easier. But, it does add the complexity of a hydraulic system to drive the fan motor(s).

Brett

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #12 – October 13, 2013, 12:50:30 pm

Lots of opinions...and both designs are great in my opinion. I did notice that I seemed to gain space when I moved to the Unicoach I have now, since the front passenger seat is down on the same level as the rest of the living room and doubles as the "front" curbside seat when swiveled around to become part of the living room. With the GV, there is another chair at floor level that takes a couple of extra feet. But I love the exterior of the old GV. I always advise folks who ask to just figure out what they want to spend, and then go find whatever year FT fits that budget! None are disappointing to me.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #13 – October 13, 2013, 01:09:51 pm

Correct on the simple complexity of the side radiator vs the impossibility of engine access with the rear radiator. So it comes down to being able to do the simple maintenance vs wishing you could reach the part you are after from underside or down thru the bedroom.
Very simple choice if your doing the work, if you pay for all you needs, it will be a little more expensive.
MO

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #14 – October 13, 2013, 01:16:35 pm

Quote

Correct on the simple complexity of the side radiator vs the impossibility of engine access with the rear radiator.

You can say that again. Those babies are really difficult to do anything on. Professional mechanics also hate them. Go for the side radiator. Unicoach or Unihome? It's really a matter of personal preference. We prefer the look and feel of the GVs and the mid entry but you can't go wrong with a Unicoach either. Just make sure you get the engine and transmission you like.
jor

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #15 – October 13, 2013, 01:23:11 pm

After having a retarder, that is likely the biggest issue now for me. Gotta have one, with a joystick.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #16 – October 13, 2013, 01:46:46 pm

Quote from: rpettway – October 13, 2013, 11:52:51 am

Thanks Pierce. How do you know whether the radiator is side mounted or rear mounted?

Rory

Rory,

The side radiator models have a big grill on the side at the rear.

Late GVs (1995 on as I remember) have a removable rear bumper that can come in handy to get into the rear area. Also like the recessed ICC lights.

Passenger's seat on a GV has a MUCH more private/personal feel. Almost like a co-pilot in a big jet cockpit. You do lose a little space that way in the rest of the coach.

Retarder is owner's choice. Everything is steep up or down in Northern California. Jake works very well with toad on the steepest hill, is simple and has no potential high maintenance costs. I never wish for anything more. Later GVs have big disk brakes all the way around.

Pierce

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #17 – October 13, 2013, 02:55:29 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – October 13, 2013, 01:46:46 pm

The side radiator models have a big grill on the side at the rear.

And Foretravels are unique in that the radiator is always on the passenger side of the coach. Other makers always put them on the drivers side.
I believe all Unihomes/Unicoaches have disks on all four wheels - even my old '91. Having a retarder or a Jake is very big plus.
It's my understanding that GV were made up to '95. In 2000-2003 there were some new generation GV320/GV295's made but very few. Foretravel brought back the styling but apparently they just didn't sell well. I think the interior space advantage of the bus style won out. Personally I think the GV320 is nicest looking coach on the exterior out there.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #18 – October 13, 2013, 03:53:45 pm

I haven't seen the disadvantage to a rear radiator setup yet. It doesn't clog up with road debris that I can see so far, the filters are located right behind an access door, and raising the mattress gets you the entire engine bay. The one issue I have is how the radiator fill is tight up underneath a bulkhead; you can juuuust get a skinny funnel in the gap to add coolant. I'll take that trade over not having to worry about fan hydraulics.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #19 – October 13, 2013, 03:59:13 pm

Correction, I meant REAR Hatch, side radiator. Sorry
Gary B

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #20 – October 13, 2013, 04:11:18 pm

Quote from: JohnFitz – October 13, 2013, 02:55:29 pm

I believe all Unihomes/Unicoaches have disks on all four wheels - even my old '91.

No, that is also model dependent. ORED's, U225's and U240's are drum brake.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #21 – October 13, 2013, 04:38:10 pm

The rear radiator doesn't block access to anything I need to get to on the engine. I had my radiator out and specifically looked for anything on the engine that I could service with the radiator out, but I didn't find anything. Everything I need to get to is accessible from the top of the engine with the bed open, or from underneath while rolling around on a creeper. Don't let serviceability be a factor in your decision between rear or side radiator because it's really a non-issue. This is coming from someone who has removed the radiator and specifically looked for stuff to service that's blocked by the radiator. The rear radiator models have several huge advantages over the side radiator models, not the least of which being the purchase price. The side radiator model of the U300 cost almost twice as much as the rear radiator model when I was shopping for my coach last year. The side radiator models have complicated hydraulic fan systems that are prone to leaks and mechanical failures, and many of parts aren't available anymore. You can easily find yourself stranded in a rural area waiting for your hydraulic motor to be sent out for a rebuild. The hydraulic motors and pumps cost as much to rebuild as the radiator, which is to say a couple thousand dollars in many cases. The rear radiator models have three fan belts, which are easily available at any small town auto parts store. I suspect the rear radiator's fan belt setup wastes a lot less horsepower than the side radiator's hydraulic pump and motors, which I believe is also belt driven, adding the hydraulic drag to the fan belt drag. The rear radiator models have plenty of room to add one or two side radiators later if you discover that you need more cooling. If you remove the huge muffler from the driver's side you can have two side radiators and your original rear radiator. I wouldn't even consider a side radiator model with hydraulic fans, especially after taking out my rear radiator and having plenty of time to think about things in perspective... Now this part is very important, on the rear radiator models you must replace the fiberglass fan with a nylon fan immediately, because the fiberglass fans always explode and almost always take out the radiator and leave you stranded when they do. The radiator will cost a couple thousand dollars to rebuild and you'll be stranded for days (or months) and have plenty of time to wish you'd put in a nylon fan. Once you've got a nylon fan you're all set with a trouble free cooling system. About the only thing to worry about after that is the fan belts, which are super easy to change, and the condition of your antifreeze, also super easy to change. The radiator hoses are a special high silicone that lasts a very long time so you probably won't have to replace them.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #22 – October 13, 2013, 05:10:21 pm

Scott,

I disagree on a couple of points. Accessibility with a side radiator is a lot easier for the following items on most engines:

Alternator, water pump, idler pulley/belt tensioner, thermostat on many models, etc.

And side radiators WITH controllers for the fan(s) use less HP, as they are two speed/variable speed, whereas rear radiator fans run all the time whether needed for cooling or not.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #23 – October 13, 2013, 05:20:43 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – October 13, 2013, 05:10:21 pm

Scott,

I disagree on a couple of points. Accessibility with a side radiator is a lot easier for the following items on most engines:

Alternator, water pump, idler pulley/belt tensioner, thermostat on many models, etc.

And side radiators WITH controllers for the fan(s) use less HP, as they are two speed/variable speed, whereas rear radiator fans run all the time whether needed for cooling or not.

Brett, I agree about accessibility being easier with a side radiator, but the 6V92 on the U300s does have thermostatic air valve that engages an air clutch on the fan pulley hub.

Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa

Reply #24 – October 13, 2013, 05:35:45 pm

We have had both styles, a GV Unihome, and now a Unicoach. The GV fit our entry budget to see how much we might enjoy and use a RV.

Had for 2 years the U225 GV, and we loved the style, the cleaner front end after a day's travel, and the mid door entry. The raised driver and passenger seat were wonderful for traveling views. The wife enjoyed having her "copilot nest" that was not the entry like on a forward door coach. The 36' length was perfect for the places we wedged it into as well.

Down side was the rear radiator, non disc brakes, non air bag suspension, and smaller bays. But those items were not deal killers for our first try. There are many happy owners with more miles on those coaches than I hoped to ever drive.

Our upgrade this year to a Unicoach, got us the side radiator, air bags, disc brakes, taller bays, and much more. We were lucky to find one of the very rare mid door 36' Unicoaches made. We have so enjoyed the flat floor, and the additional space gained with the flat front design.

It has been mentioned, know your budget, have your reserve, then look at every Foretravel you can find, both for sale and not, to know when you find the "right one".

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