Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

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Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

October 15, 2013, 08:33:22 pm

Well, we are here in Colton and are going to be parked in the lot overnight so they can finish the service in the morning. After I moved the coach around back, they started the generator and it wouldn't stay running. As soon as the Converter started sucking power the generator would start fluctuating RPM's and the voltage as indicated on the meter in the coach would swing between 70 and up off the other end of the scale which is a 130VAC. I take that reading with a grain of salt but it does indicate a sad state of affairs. Since they don't have any hook ups of any kind for overnighters, they let me plug in a standard (though heavy duty 10 gage) extension cord. Only problem is, though there is power to the coach, there is no power in the coach

It is going through two adapters and then the 50amp OEM shore power cable, but that set up worked fine at my house for two years. Since I have no knowledge of this system, I am not sure where to start. One thing is for sure, I can't count on the generator to keep the house batteries charge. I suspect something at the ATS since it happened coincidently with the generator starting and then failing. I am hoping that htere is a magic rest button or procedure that you all can share with me... pretty please

Don

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #1 – October 15, 2013, 08:46:35 pm

Don,

If you turn off the inverter and battery charger, will the generator stay running and level out? If it does, then I'd start adding loads slowly.

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #2 – October 15, 2013, 09:02:58 pm

If the points in the ATS are hanging up, you may be able to free them up by a light, sharp rap on the top of the ATS.

But, I would start with a voltmeter and check for power at the end of those extension cords.

Not sure surging generator and no shore power are related, though you are correct, the common point is the ATS.

With generator off and shore power disconnected, inverter off, you can open the ATS and check connections.

If you need more PM.

Brett

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #3 – October 15, 2013, 10:17:54 pm

Glad to have met you at Colton Truck, Art. No problems here, ran like a Swiss watch.

A surging genset sounds like a fuel issue to me. Maybe a line or filter. Power to the coach but not IN the coach can be checked with a voltmeter on the switch. But from what I've seen of MY switch, it would be my last suspect.

Just as an aside, are you positive the master breaker is on? Then I would move on to what Don suggests.

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #4 – October 15, 2013, 11:59:19 pm

Thanks for the suggestions! I was hoping for a magic reset button... Well, apparently my fluke multimeter was a victim of poor planning and didn't make it on the coach for the trip

Ty's to the rescue... She found a nearby radio shack and went and bought a cheapy multi meter that at least has the virtue of being small. I was able to verify that 110vac was getting to the transfer switch under the bed. It is an ATS 100. I didn't find a separate relay that is indicated on the coach 110vac wiring diagram, but I think maybe it is integral inside the switch. When I started the gen with the bed up, I could here the relay clicking as 110v came on and off. I checked that the shore power cable had power present but the switch wouldn't engage. I once again ran the gen for a minute until it quit and heard the switch cycle off as the gen died. Still no shore power... I went out side and disconnected the extension cord for the 10th time, and this timeTys was inside the coach to tell me she saw the voltmeter jump. So I did it again, and this time it stayed on! Sheesh... Oh well, at least the batteries are charging tonight and hopefully the genny will be working reliably tomorrow after the fuel filter etc. gets changed. What a day! I will have more to say about this service experience and much of will be a mea culpa for not being prepared. I have plenty of ~~excuses~~ Err, reasons why I wasn't but that is another story. I don't think I will risk running the A/C tonight because the circuit breaker is behind locked doors. Hopefully, it will cool down tonight...
Thanks to all who replied!
Don

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #5 – October 16, 2013, 06:47:37 am

Don I don't know about your 270, but my 1999 295 has 2 transfer switches, one over top of the other in the space in front under the bed. The bottom one is the one for the inverter, the top one is shore and gen, both ATS 100's. Me thinks your problem may be related to the generator run issue.You may also have a transfer sw issue turn off ALL power and look at the contact points in the switch if they are pitted you can take a little sand paper to them to clean them up until you can get a new one. Also don't forget there is a time delay (mine is about 1 min or so) from the time you start the gen or inverter before the t/switch closes, no delay for shore power. The power priority on mine is generator, shore power, inverter. Lightning got in mine a couple of years ago and ate a transfer switch.

On another note, as part of my yearly maintaince I check all of the 110V connections in the panels and t/switch's to make sure they are tight only takes about an hour.

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #6 – October 16, 2013, 09:02:34 am

Don,

Could be something as simple as a poor connection in the male end of your shore power cord, or even more likely, a worn out female end to the shop's extension cord.

Brett

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #7 – October 16, 2013, 09:57:22 am

Don, If you have not already done so use your meter to check the receptacle you are plugged in to. At my SIL's house I have to use a 50 to 30 adapter, then use a 30 to 50 adapter between cords to get power to the coach

I know , I don't understand it either. If I had time to explore it I think I would find a faulty 50 amp plug on her pole. Something like one leg not hot or similar.
Good luck, this is probably not helpful.
Gary B

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #8 – October 16, 2013, 03:20:56 pm

The bucket test with the generator gave us good news/bad news. The good news is that the genny seems fine. It ran both AC's and was charging the batteries at 90 Amps. The bad news is the fuel line needs to be replaced. I guess I will have FOT the main lines at the same time. Coach bucks to be sure!

Don

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #9 – October 16, 2013, 03:29:56 pm

Don you might check your fuel lines anywhere they make a bend, and any place you can see any connectors, you may find your problem there and do a temp fix.

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #10 – October 16, 2013, 03:38:07 pm

Quote from: acousticart – October 16, 2013, 03:20:56 pm

Coach bucks to be sure!
Don

Two coach bucks +-. Did the drill at FOT in January, 2013, on our 1997 coach. Generator wouldn't keep running. On inspection, lines for big engine looked bad. Shop foreman said they are doing about seven a month for coaches of our vintage.

Try to go in relatively low on fuel. On ours they drained and removed the tank. They put in all new fittings and ran new plastic lines. Be sure to look at how the lines are run. I tied up a couple of spots and put some pipe wrap as a cushion on a place the looked like it could chafe. They will probably do that for you, but you may need to identify your concerns if you see a problem area.

I talked to another owner who had the lines for the main engine done at Caterpillar - five coach bucks. Whew!

It's good to see that you are driving the coach. That points out new problems, but also allows for the enjoyment that is possible in the RV style.

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #11 – October 16, 2013, 04:20:52 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – October 16, 2013, 03:38:07 pm

Try to go in relatively low on fuel. On ours they drained and removed the tank.

Generator surging under load, having to prime the fuel filter pump to start the engine after sitting. Ah new fuel lines everywhere on our 97. Hard, cracked.

Yes pull tank. Yes expensive but required.

Bob

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #12 – October 16, 2013, 11:58:02 pm

Made it to Thousand Trails Palm Springs... Happy to say that we plugged into the 30amp pedestal and the ATS was happily feed us power

Turns out Twig headed this way after his visit at the Colton truck terminal. What a busy place... 9 or 10 coaches being worked on at the same time as well as 3 fire trucks and an assort ment of other trucks. I think we were treated fairly and the tech was pretty competent and conscientious. Two and a half coach bucks later, we are on the road for Texas. I may try to splice in some new fuel line to the generator for a temp fix, but we need to be at FOT on Sunday afternoon, so not much free time...blocking forward to meeting forum folks and the crew at FOT, MOT, and Xtreme
Don

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #13 – October 17, 2013, 04:25:40 pm

I know I've said it before, Don, but just think of this as an on-going adventure. We're finishing our 13th year and see no end in sight.

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #14 – October 17, 2013, 06:27:16 pm

Can someone enlighten me as to why it's necessary to pull the fuel tank to change lines? Sure seems like there's enough room on top to get to the entrances on my 140 gal tank. Is there some other reason? Trying to understand why it's so expensive to have fuel lines changed.....makes me cautious to undertake the job myself which I had planned.

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #15 – October 17, 2013, 10:08:29 pm

It is not necessary to drain and remove fuel tank to change fuel lines, if all of the brass fittings on the top of the fuel tank can be loosened and removed. Room above tank is limited, and every coach is built different and some fittings may be very difficult to reach. No reason you cannot do the job yourself, even if you decide to remove fuel tank

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #16 – October 17, 2013, 11:59:51 pm

Now an interesting question, why is it that certain people have had to replace fuel lines? Is it JUST an age thing or weather related, or if you are fulltiming and runnig engine a lot, or low sulpher or

I do not see any breakdown of lines at fittings and never had a cough of engine, so am I lucky or?
Hope fully all who answer that have had to replace them will have a "common thread"
John H

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #17 – October 18, 2013, 08:51:35 am

Quote from: John Haygarth – October 17, 2013, 11:59:51 pm

Now an interesting question, why is it that certain people have had to replace fuel lines? Is it JUST an age thing or weather related, or if you are fulltiming and runnig engine a lot, or low sulpher or
I do not see any breakdown of lines at fittings and never had a cough of engine, so am I lucky or?
Hope fully all who answer that have had to replace them will have a "common thread"
John H

Howdy John,
Thanks for these questions, as I have been thinking on this myself. Hopefully, there is a common thread, that would help make a decision on pro-actively replacing fuel lines.
Dave A

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #18 – October 18, 2013, 09:37:01 am

My coach a 98 model, and I am reading 97 + 98 model years having problems. Mine were done last Oct. by the previous owner, $2 coach bucks at FOT for engine and generator.

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #19 – October 18, 2013, 09:45:00 am

It seems to be strictly age. Both full timers and occasional users are sharing the same experience. I now know that it's pretty easy to check fuel lines yourself. Look at the fuel lines right at the primary filter, where the fitting joins the hose. Any surface cracking there is a sign of imminent failure. The fuel lines are not like the air bags or tires, which can go for years with surface cracking. By the way, Russell couldn't start his coach this morning, so he is leaving it here for new fuel lines and driving his car to Nebraska.

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #20 – October 18, 2013, 10:07:21 am

My guy is replacing the fuel lines on most of the country coaches he also works on....

Bob

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #21 – October 18, 2013, 09:45:44 pm

Are the lines being replaced with similar rubber hose or is nylon being used these days?

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #22 – October 19, 2013, 05:35:23 am

HTFL plastic lines now.

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #23 – October 19, 2013, 08:45:16 am

How are these fuel lines sold? Pre-cut with fittings attached? Or, as a DIYer, do you buy a 50 ft roll with a bunch of new fittings and fabricate your own lines?

Just curious trying to visualize what repair tasks I could do and which ones I would pay to have done.

Thanks,
Royce

Re: Another 110VAC Electrical problem... Help!

Reply #24 – October 19, 2013, 09:11:12 am

The seller who replaced mine last year said FOT removed or moved the propane and diesel tank as I recall. Figure that into the DIY plan maybe. I also noticed that there seem to be new copper supply and return line attachments on the generator, or some one really cleaned them during the repair service.

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