Winterizing Option?

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Winterizing Option?

October 17, 2013, 06:53:26 am

Is this a viable procedure?

I've read a lot in the archives about winterizing our coach for the Michigan winters from which the accepted procedure is accessing the 12V water pump and sucking in pink RV antifreeze throughout the system. Some folks on the forum have said accessing the pump is a time consuming but necessary procedure. So here's my idea...we have a small sump pump which is used for draining a small hot tub among other uses. It has regular hose fittings and could be hooked to the water fill hose in the water bay. Place the sump into a container with 10 gal of antifreeze and pump into the fresh water tank using the fill valve. Then use 12V pump throughout the coach being sure every all faucet and other lines are running pink. This also would insure all traps and tanks would be safe.
Do you think this would work? Any words of wisdom (short of moving south for 4 months)?

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #1 – October 17, 2013, 08:44:03 am

If you have a hot water heater by-pass this will work with about 6 gallons of anti freeze. I rigged up permanent tubing with a two way valve from the pump to a more easily accessible point to suck in the anti freeze. I need about 4 gallons includes Splendide and all appliances/faucets and outside spigot in the utility bay. Coach is in storage otherwise I'd include a couple snap shots. The modification of the tubing took about a couple hous with trip to Lowes and having to reposition the pump to accept the two way valve at the pump.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #2 – October 17, 2013, 11:56:58 am

Your procedure will work but you then have the issue of flushing all the antifreeze out of the fresh water tank when you dewinterize. Installing something like a Camco winterizing valve at the pump is a one-time deal that makes it easy to pump the antifreeze throughout the system. Here is a picture of the one I installed.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #3 – October 17, 2013, 03:35:43 pm

I think Monti's idea is the best. It is exactly what my SOB (a Tiffin) had - it worked very well.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #4 – October 17, 2013, 05:58:19 pm

The good thing about not using the Camco bypass valve (or another brand) is that by taking the water line off of the pump one has a good opportunity to check the filter for crud. If it gets clogged up your water pressure goes down or the flow goes to nothing. Even if you put on a bypass valve you should check the filter screen at least once a year anyway.

I don't like getting antifreeze in the main tank. I make sure all the lines are full of antifreeze and that the pink stuff comes out of all drain valve before they are closed as well as all of the faucets, both hot and cold, (don't forget the water faucet in the service bay), the drinking water faucet and the toilet. Make sure you get a couple cups of antifreeze in the drain traps. Don't forget to take out the water filter cartridge and put in the bypass plug.

Make sure the waste tanks are empty before you start. A bit of antifreeze from the toilet and drains will get into each of them.

I leave the main tank drain valve open with a drain pan under it.

The first time is sort of intimidating but sone right you will be problem free when you get going in the spring. Flushing everything out is pretty easy, just run water until the pink foamy look is gone.

Roger

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #5 – October 17, 2013, 07:47:01 pm

Thanks everyone for your input. I'll look into a by-pass valve and make a note of checking the filter each fall. Now I'll need to locate the 12V pump and hopefully make it easy to access each and every year.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #6 – October 17, 2013, 09:13:30 pm

You might also need to remove the under the sink filter and put in the plug that they make for it, (assuming you have a similar setup to what I have.) Also, I don't have the water heater bypass so I put a valve on the drain and re-capture that 10 gallons of anti-freeze for re-use.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #7 – October 17, 2013, 10:48:30 pm

I just need to ask: Why do you prefer to fill the sys. with antifreeze in lieu of blowing everything down with air? I've never done the antifreeze thing and I'm just wondering if it is a better way. Thank you and have a great day ---- Fritz

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #8 – October 17, 2013, 10:58:39 pm

For me it's the only way I can guarantee that the Splendide and the toilet are free of water in the lines.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #9 – October 17, 2013, 11:48:53 pm

I also ask the same question as this will be my firsy winter home in 14 yrs and I will be blowing out the lines etc etc and putting antifreeze in all drains and some in tanks. I will keep a small ceramic heater in the coach, and am considering now that I have this pit that placing a tarp around the whole lower part to touch the cement and with the RV cover over the whole rig and a ceramic heater in the pit, that may just be the ticket to keep it above zero???
John H

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #10 – October 18, 2013, 08:56:52 am

Quote from: Peter & Beth – October 17, 2013, 10:58:39 pm

For me it's the only way I can guarantee that the Splendide and the toilet are free of water in the lines.

Using the potable antifreeze for winterizing is also required for those of us who have AquaHot. Since Bill and Jan have a U320 I'm guessing they have an AquaHot, so the compressed air or a water heater bypass isn't likely to be appropriate.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #11 – October 18, 2013, 09:09:20 am

John,
I think you'd be better off winterizing all the lines in your neck of the woods. We're talking very hard freeze at those temperatures. lso you'll be using mega BTU's with the heater(s) and may not keep it above freezing inside the coach and the utility compartments. Also do not forget to exercise the coach every 30 to 40 days. This will be a pain with an RV cover.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #12 – October 18, 2013, 09:37:52 am

There are many stories in the archives of owners who thought they blew out all the lines, only to incur costly repairs in the following spring.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #13 – October 18, 2013, 10:34:35 am

Quote from: bill & jan velting – October 17, 2013, 07:47:01 pm

I'll look into a by-pass valve and make a note of checking the filter each fall.

You can remove the water heater lines at the top of the manifold and tie the manifold together with a 1/2"x1/2" FIP faucet connector. Same result and about $5.00 verses the cost of a by-pass kit and much easier to install.
water heater by-pass

D&D

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #14 – October 18, 2013, 01:21:15 pm

Sure seem easier to move south for four months.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #15 – October 18, 2013, 02:35:22 pm

Oh, it's not so difficult. Like so many things, the first time takes some extra time but after that it is an hour or so to get it done. After you get all the water tank and lines drained, of course. Its a lovely day in MN for me to get this done today. Sunny with big puffy clouds, 50's. Mid 30's over night, 40's and rain tomorrow. Good day to get on with it.

Contrary to what many think, life is good here, even in the winter.

Added ....
Don't forget to hook up an air hose to the city water hose at low pressure 20-30psi. Thin will clear out any left over water in any lines.

Roger

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #16 – October 18, 2013, 10:16:45 pm

I keep the engine block heater on in the winter. That thing heats the entire back 1/2 of the coach!!!

I also put a small (200-watt) electric heater in the storage bay adjacent to the holding tanks and plugged into a socket that does not turn on until the temp is 32F. This gives me a little peace of mind knowing that any liquid left in the holding tanks is heated up when the temp drops.

I also keep an oil-filled radiator type heater going on low in the salon, with cupboards open and access to the top of the water tank (on our coach it's under the doghouse between the pilot and co-pilot seats.

Right now the water heater is on (propane) because I'm working on things at the shop and it's where I wash my hands. I have turned it off in the past (and drained it) but done nothing about the water lines over the winter.

Temps do get below freezing here but generally stay in the upper 20s and rarely get below 20F here and over the past two winters we have had zero issues with cold using this method. I do have a full cover and will put that on if weather folks predict the temps will plunge. Ten years ago the lake in front of my house froze over (shore-to-shore) by November 15 and didn't thaw until March 15. Last year it was after Dec 15 when it froze shore-to-shore and it was thawed by the first week in February. I don't expect much change in that.

I will fill the fresh water tank completely to make a heat sink making it harder to freeze solid.

Craig

Craig

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #17 – October 19, 2013, 11:44:45 am

I still strongly recommend to folks that live where hard freezes occur to winterize with RV anti freeze. The electrical means of keeping the coach from freezing is fine unless you have a power failure and you don't catch it fast enough. Also if you do not have electrical available where you store the coach, as I, there is no other choice.

BTW, you can't blow out all the water from a toilet or Splendide. I have not found a means to do so. If you have, please share with the group.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #18 – October 19, 2013, 12:32:52 pm

Peter,

I totally agree. I would never depend on external heat to protect my coach. I use 5-6 gallons of antifreeze once I am sure the lines are clear. Suck it up with the pump till it comes out of the drain lines, then the service faucet, then flush the toilet till it runs pink, then the bathroom faucet, the shower and finally the kitchen sink and drinking water faucet (be sure to remove the filter and put in the diverter valve. Everything needs to run pink or whatever color you use. At least 2 cups in each drain.

There should be no water left in the fresh water tank so I leave the tank drain open with a drip pan under it. Even a little dribble of water left can freeze up the valve. The waste tanks should have been emptied and some anitfreeze will have run into them from the drains and the toilet. That is OK. Assuming your slide valves are good, I leave the drain cap off as well with a short drain hose. A drip pan is a good idea. My coach is in the barn. If it were outside I would skip the drain pans.

I'm not a fan of leaving heat on in the coach over the winter by any means. If it is all cold then there shouldn't be any condensation issues.

I look for a nice stretch of weather about once a month and turn on the engine preheat a couple days before I take it out for a drive. I run the generator, the aquahot and the AC and drive for 25 miles or more.

So far this has worked well for me. Evev when we leave in the middle of the winter for somewhere warmer flushing everything out only takes an hour or so.

I use "Mouse Magic" for mice and other critters and pests as well as some plug in ultrasonic things. The Mouse Magic is small bags with a granular peppermint smelling stuff. So far no winter visitors.

Roger

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #19 – October 19, 2013, 02:50:30 pm

Yes. Do not forget to include the utility bay faucet and the water inlet valve for those coaches w/o a hose reel. There're is a check valve on these models that needs to be bled. I do not have a hose reel so I've never had to get the water out of these.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #20 – October 19, 2013, 04:26:02 pm

Roger; (or anyone else)

What do you use for a pump?

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #21 – October 19, 2013, 05:30:08 pm

I use the coach water pump with a Winterizing valve at the suction side to introduce the RV anti freeze to the lines, etc.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #22 – October 19, 2013, 05:40:36 pm

Is access to the water pump behind the panel in the water bay with the outside faucet? If so, this may be the time to repair/replace the grey and black sewage gate valves.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #23 – October 19, 2013, 05:48:26 pm

Quote from: bill & jan velting – October 19, 2013, 05:40:36 pm

Is access to the water pump behind the panel in the water bay with the outside faucet? If so, this may be the time to repair/replace the grey and black sewage hate valves.

Water pump on our 1997 is passenger side in the bay with the water heater, accumulator tank, and fresh water drain valves. It's relatively accessible without having to remove any panels.

Re: Winterizing Option?

Reply #24 – October 19, 2013, 06:00:10 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – October 19, 2013, 11:44:45 am

I still strongly recommend to folks that live where hard freezes occur to winterize with RV anti freeze. The electrical means of keeping the coach from freezing is fine unless you have a power failure and you don't catch it fast enough. Also if you do not have electrical available where you store the coach, as I, there is no other choice.

I quite agree with this except for people who, like us, use our coach regularly in the winter for ski trips into the mountains. Our coach is parked a block away and plugged into a 50-a circuit that operates off the same PUD connections as our house. We don't get power failures here very often because we're a desert and there really aren't many trees to ice up and take the power out. In fact, our biggest problem with power is drunk drivers running into power poles and knocking them down. Seriously!

If power went out at the coach it would also be out here at the house and if it went on for more than an hour we'd be staying in the coach with the generator running and the heat on.

Craig

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