Large slide moves in.

Topic: Large slide moves in. (Read 7532 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #25 – December 06, 2013, 07:27:44 am

Scott, RAP6554 is what they sold me to repair the air solonoids under the coach on the leveling system. I think they screw into a block similarly. After I realized I have to make a trip to HWH for the slide I figured I'd let them find my air leak too.

Hope you have the right part.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #26 – December 06, 2013, 07:53:20 am

Rick - Interesting re: PN RAP6554 is the part number for the "O" rings - cost: $12.00 +/-. I do not know where the solenoids are for the leveling system.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #27 – December 06, 2013, 09:04:39 am

Quote from: Carol & Scott – December 06, 2013, 07:53:20 am

Rick - Interesting re: PN RAP6554 is the part number for the "O" rings - cost: $12.00 +/-.

As Rick mentions, RAP6554 is usually the 12 o-ring kit for the air leveling six-pack solenoids.

Actual o-ring sizes/numbers are here: Our leveling system problem

Quote

I do not know where the solenoids are for the leveling system.

Here are some photos of the front air leveling six-pack - it's under the coach near the front axle, IIRC

It could be that the valves are the same, so RAP6554 would work (with some spares left behind). Here are some photos of the guts of the valve, and below the link, one of the photos showing the location of the o-rings: http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=310
The selected media item is not currently available.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #28 – December 06, 2013, 11:18:42 am

Here's the starting point for their education stuff: HWH Online Technical School

I really try to get some grasp of what I stick my fingers into when I don't feel competent. So the more I can read/anticipate/prevent damage the better!

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #29 – December 06, 2013, 11:31:24 am

Here is the page showing the replacement Solenoid that they put on mine, and the correct part as verified by Joe Portelli (RAP90729)...the one on the far right. These o-rings don't look the same as the RAP6554, as that kit seems to have a lot larger diameter on one of the two sizes of ring.

Can I take a solenoid off and leave the system alone for a while...without fluid pouring out?

oops: http://www.hwh.com/mr552000.pdf

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #30 – December 06, 2013, 11:38:47 am

And here's another page showing the manifold and all the parts. It appears that the o-ring kit needed is R7430. http://www.hwh.com/mr558031.pdf

I ordered it to have on hand. The o-ring kit (8 sets) was $6.20 and they will ship it USPS, so I expect not a lot of shipping.

I just found their online price list....she may have mis-read the price, as it shows to be $16.20. FYI, the small solenoid valves R90729, are listed as $182.00. http://www.hwhcorp.com/pricelist73.pdf

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #31 – December 06, 2013, 01:47:32 pm

Well....Looks as if the boys in the Parts Dept. at FT gave me the wrong "O" rings.

Brad - Thanks for the links, PNs and pricing.

I don't know if the solenoid can be pulled off without fluid escaping - I haven't gotten there yet. I seen to recall that if the slide is in the correct position there will not be any pressure in the lines so it can be removed.

I found the educational stuff on the HWH website this AM before the DW got up.

I will spend some more time there and probably go through the course work.

Are there check valves built into the solenoids or are they located someplace else?

There are so many documents on the HWH web site this it is difficult to determine what applies to what. In some documents they refer to the Spacesaving system and other places they refer to the Train.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #32 – December 06, 2013, 03:09:12 pm

For $18 you can get an assortment of almost 500 O rings from TADA Nutty.com

Your "nutty" friend
Roland

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #33 – December 06, 2013, 04:16:01 pm

Quote from: Roland Begin – December 06, 2013, 03:09:12 pm

For $18 you can get an assortment of almost 500 O rings from TADA Nutty.com

Your "nutty" friend
Roland

I tried to get them to tell me the size so I could buy them locally, but the HWH order-taker said she didn't have that information. I looked at Steve's post when he measured the o-rings he got, but they were the "other" ones. Maybe this is an excuse to get a digital caliper and then I can post what I find after they arrive.

Scott: I haven't gotten to look for where the check valves are yet.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #34 – December 06, 2013, 05:04:37 pm

If you open the nut on the end of the solonoids (don't turn too far or it comes apart) it relieves the pressure. I'm sure there is residual fluid that will drain from who knows where.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #35 – December 06, 2013, 08:33:49 pm

Before removing any of the hydraulic solenoid valves the pressure must be relieved. When you turn the nut counterclockwise about 2-3 turns you should hear a hissing noise when the pressure is released. On the small round valves with the small nut to release pressure maximum turns out to release pressure is 4 turns be sure to mark the wires when you unplug the connector for the solenoid valve. When the valves are removed there will be only a small amount of fluid come out. Scott the o rings for the air solenoids are much larger than the o rings for the hydraulic solenoid.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #36 – December 06, 2013, 10:05:24 pm

Than Red.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #37 – December 06, 2013, 11:54:23 pm

Quote from: red tractor – December 06, 2013, 08:33:49 pm

Before removing any of the hydraulic solenoid valves the pressure must be relieved. When you turn the nut counterclockwise about 2-3 turns you should hear a hissing noise when the pressure is released. On the small round valves with the small nut to release pressure maximum turns out to release pressure is 4 turns be sure to mark the wires when you unplug the connector for the solenoid valve. When the valves are removed there will be only a small amount of fluid come out. Scott the o rings for the air solenoids are much larger than the o rings for the hydraulic solenoid.

Should the slide be in or out when the pressure is released and the solenoid valve removed? I haven't ran into the document that tells me that yet. I am believing that the 2002, "B" type room should be extended, since that is its position when I am to open the line and install the temporary valve and guage, but I'd like to be positive before I remove it.

With the spare o-rings available to me, IF the pressure test shows that it leaks past the solenoid, I plan on switching the lock extend solenoid with the room extend solenoid to see if that changes anything.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #38 – December 07, 2013, 12:18:52 am

Brad,

Not that our coaches are identical, but mine is type B where the slide is extended top check the hydraulic fluid. I don't know if this is important to remove a solenoid.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #39 – December 07, 2013, 09:03:06 am

Brad - I believe the Train slide system is the B type and therefore the slide should be in the extend position to perform the test and change the solenoids. I had attached the test procedure earlier in the thread but will attach it again. I think you already have it.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #40 – December 07, 2013, 11:17:50 am

Quote from: Carol & Scott – December 07, 2013, 09:03:06 am

Brad - I believe the Train slide system is the B type and therefore the slide should be in the extend position to perform the test and change the solenoids. I had attached the test procedure earlier in the thread but will attach it again. I think you already have it.

Yes, I have it...but it doesn't say anything about preparing to, or actually removing the solenoid valves.
In re-reading the test procedure, there is another question that occurs to me: If the solenoid DOES leak and the pressure guage rises to 500psi+, now what? I *think* that unscrewing the nut 2-1/2 turns will release that pressure.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #41 – December 07, 2013, 01:42:25 pm

Brad I think you are correct. Good luck.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #42 – December 07, 2013, 10:16:35 pm

It does not matter if the room is extended or retracted as far as needing to release the pressure. I have not read the procedure about testing so would go by what it says, but just remember to bleed off pressure before removing the solenoid valves

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #43 – December 11, 2013, 10:38:25 pm

Creep Test Status update. After leaving the slide alone and retracted since Joe Portelli (HWH) told me to do so in mid-November, I finally got to it today to set up the isolation kit.

When I extended the slide, it headed out wonky, just like before I went and had the cylinders synched. I got it mostly out, but it was done moving before it was fully extended. Insert several unpleasant cusswords here. Arghhh. So I retracted it. It came in just like the last time I had the problem...the pump shut off, but the slide was still about an inch out at the top. I cycled the bladder seal, then hit the retract button again. A little movement in, then the pump sort of "stuttered" a few times. Arghhh. I kept working at it and finally it went all the way in, but I did not hear the normal locking sounds. So I hit retract another time or two and eventually it sounded like the locks were in place. I started the coach (I had been meaning to move it forward about 6 inches anyway) just to make sure it would go in gear, which is my indicator that the locks were in place. All was well.

This time, since the coach is inside the garage, I decided to not be as fearful as I was before, and to just go ahead and try extending the slide again. Surprise. It went out fine. I brought it back in and extended it again. Fine. Just like it was after the $$$ re-synching in June after leaving it in for several years. I learned from this that my previous fear of extending the slide was likely unwarranted. Despite the fact that it wouldn't retract immediately all the way then, it eventually did go in. Same thing now. It wasn't that hard to "nurse" it back in by nudging it one direction or the other. I was surprised that it seemed to have straightened itself out, as I was always told NEVER to interrupt a cycle and reverse it.

I went ahead and installed the inline valve portion of the HWH Isolation kit. I really wasn't sure if I needed to do anything to the solenoid valves, so I did NOTHING to them. When I took the slide's hydraulic hose off the manifold, there was no pressure and only a small amount of fluid dripped onto the paper powel I had laid over the motor to catch it. That was a relief. I then cycled the room in and out 2 more times as Joe instructed me (to get any air out that I might have introduced with the valve insertion, I think). Slide moved in and out just fine.

At that point, I called my lovely assistant to help me. I extended the room with the opened valve in the line. It still went out fine, with the bottom lagging the top about an inch (it always has completed every extension with the bottom "finishing" the movement). While I was still holding the Extend button (altho the light had gone out), I had her close down the newly inserted valve per the instructions and then I released the extend button.

I went down to the manifold and disconnected the hose with the closed valve now on its end. I put the kit's plug in the end (I think that is just to ensure the valve doesn't leak or get opened accidentally) and connected the guage and hose portion of the kit to the manifold where the hose had been.

Now I must wait to see if any pressure reaches the guage and/or if the room creeps in. After about 2 hours, there is no pressure indicated on the guage and only the smallest of creep, if any. Stay tuned for tomorrow's results.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #44 – December 11, 2013, 11:32:33 pm

Good Show Brad - I can feel your ARGHHHHHs from here. Sounds like you are getting through it. Looking forward to results tomorrow. Thanks so much for your excellent write up. When you get done we should chat. Sometimes I am not so good at reading stuff - better to read and talk. Of course I have my pretty bride here to keep me honest and help me to understand what the written words say.

I have been thinking about 2002 slide issue(s) and am wondering your thoughts about us (me) writing a summary and asking Barry B. to include it on his site?

Have you taken any pics of the kit set up?

Thanks again as you appear to be going where no fofum member has gone before. Definately not a final fronteer but an amazing accomplishiment nontheless..... :-D

Thanks again,

Scott

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #45 – December 12, 2013, 12:31:17 am

I'm trying to understand just how it all works, mechanically and hydraulically. (Not tackling the electronics...whew!)

It still shows no pressure on the gauge (about 5 hours after hookup), but the lower part of the slide is already in about 1-1/2 fat fingers...likely just short of an inch. I didn't do anything to it yet and will see what the morning brings. I am, however, beginning my quest to learn how to remove the cylinders. I fear that I will also need to learn how to take the overhead cap off, as if a cylinder gets replaced or rebuilt, it looks like all 4 need to be bled and re-synchronized.

Thinking out loud, with our Train rooms, the 4 cylinders are all RETRACTED when the room has been extended. Thus there must be some pressure extending one or more of the cylinders to make the room creep inward. In my mind, that would seem to indicate that something else is "pushing" the cylinder open, rather than anything inside the cylinder allowing fluid to internally leak through it. A cylinder itself leaking/bleeding through would seem to indicate to me that the cylinder would then be RETRACTING...not expanding and pushing the rod out (thus retracting the room). So maybe this will turn out to be something like the Back Pressure Valve sending pressure and pushing one or more of the cylinders open. It seems to be located near the Synchronizing cylinder, something I have yet to find the physical location of. Maybe it is on top???

I need to learn how to get the header off anyway. The PO had Foretravel of TN add extra trim to it and I would just as soon remove it. Some was put on very sloppily and there are some broken screws. Winter in a garage is a good time to tackle all this stuff.

Picture below is the diagram showing the "Back Pressure Valve".

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #46 – December 12, 2013, 12:33:34 am

LOL. Yes, once this all gets resolved, maybe we can reduce it to facts learned from all our questions and tests, and then put a how-to-check-and-fix document together for 2002 Owners.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #47 – December 12, 2013, 09:17:39 am

I can do a draft, send to you for review, corrections and additions and then send to Barry.

Removing the header and leg unit/assembly is a two person job. One to remove the covers and screws and one to hold the header and legs in place. Our slide header cover was one piece that consists of the header and one verticle leg on each side of the slide. These legs are attached to the header with 3 to 5 screws. The header is held in place by 5 screws in the bottom of the header. They are covered by buttons that pull off exposing the snap and screw. There are also 4 to 6 screws in each leg on either side of the slide. The fabric on each verticle legs is held in place by velcrow. These verticle fabric covers pull off. 1st -remove the 4 to 6 screws in each verticle leg. The legs are attached to the header by 3 or 4 screws each and will remain in place until the header screws are removed. There are 5 fabric covered buttons under the header that must be removed to access the verticle screws that hold the header to the slide frame. Pull the buttons off and unscrew the snap screw that runs vertically from under the header. At this point there should be nothing holding the top horizontal cover and two side legs in place. Gently remove the unit starting with the top/header and pull out towards the sink applying outward and upward pressure to the assembly. This header assembly/unit must be supported as the two legs are attached to the header by 2 or 3 more screws each. The whole unit is awkward to move as the legs stay on the header. Once the assembly is pulled away from the slide structure we leaned it against the refer and counter top supporting each verticle leg and the header against the refer. I have removed the header many times and was able to remove it by myself one time but I did break one of the joynts holding the leg to the header. I was able to modify this assembly in to 3 seperate pieces that can now be removed easily. The removal still requires two people but the header is now seperate from the legs. It was nerve wracking the first couple of times but now is a piece of cake.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #48 – December 12, 2013, 01:03:27 pm

Next:
This morning, after sitting about 20 hours, there is no indication of pressure on the guage, thus the solenoid does not leak.

The rear of the slide, about 2 ft from the floor, shows about 2-1/2 fingers of creep, and the front is a little less but more than yesterday. Next step will be to try to concisely give the info to Joe Portelli via email and see what he advises.

Meantime, I will attempt to see if I can follow your (Scott's) instructions and get the header off of the slide. One question, tho: Can I do this with the slide open or closed? Or must it be in a particular state? I hadn't realized that it was all one unit. Seems odd to me, so maybe I'll try to turn it into a 3-piece item when I replace it.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #49 – December 12, 2013, 01:22:44 pm

Brad - The headder/leg assy can be removed with the slide either in or out. It is easier to remove the slide if the room is out as you have more room to manouver the header and leg assembly sout of the way.

It seemed odd to me that the assembly is one piece. Yours may be different. We did modify the assembly so now it is 3 pieces. the left leg, the header and the right leg.

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