Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #50 – December 12, 2013, 01:23:41 pm Brad, on our 2002 the header was three pieces, top and two sides. FOT removed ours when we had the slide bladder replaced and I watched. It took them no more than 5 min to remove the screws and take the header down. Now, with that said, we have taken it down ourselves. A bit more than 5 min but it is a two person job but is not difficult to do. We did it with the slide IN. Easer to get to the screws I believe! Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #51 – December 12, 2013, 04:04:06 pm Sent my emil to Joe and he responded very quickly by calling me!He said the Back Pressure Valve would not be the culprit and says it is a room cylinder, and he suspects the lower rear one. He was going to study his drawings and then call/email me the next instructions. He said the creeping problem usually is a leaky solenoid valve, but we have eliminated that from being the issue, so next up is a leaky cylinder. He said I may end up getting a few fittings to isolate the cylinders one at a time, but we'd start on the lower rear. He told me to hold up on the header disassembly until we check out the lower cylinders first.I told him there were a couple of others with similar issues and that I'd be sharing as we went along.Can anyone here tell me how to expose the lower cylinders? I have found where they are located (under the forward dinette seat and at the rear of the couch), but all I see is the nuts on the end of the shafts?? Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #52 – December 12, 2013, 04:36:28 pm Brad - Under our dinette table ther is a 4" ledge covered by carpeting. Pull up on the carpeting flap and you will see the bottom left cylinder. I have not removed the drawer under our couch but believe it is the same there. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #53 – December 12, 2013, 04:50:22 pm Quote from: Carol & Scott – December 12, 2013, 04:36:28 pmBrad - Under our dinette table ther is a 4" ledge covered by carpeting. Pull up on the carpeting flap and you will see the bottom left cylinder. I have not removed the drawer under our couch but believe it is the same there.Yes. I have located the cylinders, and noticed that there is a hard plastic shield that is held into grooves at the top and bottom. When they last worked on mine, the end of the plasic is not in place (VERY hard to try to make it fit into the grooves). The plastic seems to be 3-4 feet long. While I probably could grab an end with vicegrips and pull it off, I don't see how I could ever return it into place once I was done. That is my question...how to get those off and expose the cylinders and, more importantly, how to get them back into place. I had tried to get that end back in unsuccessfully, and that was only an inch or two.Thanks to your very good description of the mounting, I pulled off the velchro verticals. Boy, I'd hate to have Foretravel's Velchro bill. They seem to really love the stuff. I see that my rear screws are all messed up (some loose, one or 2 broken). When I get my helper back to take it down, I will re-engineer that to something more useful...like hangar bolts and either wingnuts or double nuts to put them in place. These crummy long and thin screws are not the solution, especially if the header has to be removed on ocassion. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #54 – December 12, 2013, 05:54:43 pm Sorry, I can't offer a process to remove the clear plastic covers. I presumed, incorrectly I guess that they would just slide out......I also had a couple of screws loose on the left leg that did not appear to be holding anything. After I separated the header and the legs I was no longer concerned about having 4 or 5 screws holding the rear verticle leg in place. 2 screws hold it in place now and it travels OK. I may re-anchor those screws sometime but not in the near future. Good luck, Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #55 – December 12, 2013, 07:08:16 pm I got the header off. Now my wife made a chiropractic appointment for tomorrow. Foretravel of Tennessee folks are on my "doo-doo" list.My header weighs 60 lbs! (Just the header top piece!) It's a trim piece, with no structural purpose that I can see. FOTenn added 16 lbs of extra trim wood to make it pretty, I guess, for the PO. When they did that, they put little trim pieces on the end that were 1/4" thick...making the header wider than it had been. There were 2 pieces of 1-1/2 x 2 x 3/4" SOFT Pine wood that were used to add 2 screws each in a meager attempt to hold the modified header to the verticals. Two screws one direction and two screws in the opposite. While they made it all come reasonably close in the front section (not a lot of exposed screw threads in the mess), the rear had 3 of the 4 screws so far apart that they were pulled out of the wood and one of the two pieces there were split. Only one screw was left to hold the rear mess together, so the rearmost header screw has been working itself out of the wood due to the stress placed on it.As great as most Foretravel engineering generally is, every now and then you run across something like this. I am considering making a brand new header out of a much lighter product. I have already removed the extra wood they added, altho I might put the center piece back in. It most certainly will not go back like it was. End of rant. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #56 – December 12, 2013, 07:53:03 pm Brad - My guess is that when the train slide was installed in the slide and the slide was moved into the coach the woodworkers looked at the structure and tried to create the best/most simple cover that they could devise. As a woodworker, cabinet and furniture maker I can imagine them sitting with a cup of coffee a smoke and trying to devise a way to cover the train and all of it's stuff. I think the design is pretty good until it has to come off and on again. Ours is built out of 3/4" plywood in an "L" configuration that is covered with 1/2" foam and then material. We are replacing the fabric material with a chocolate brown vinyl that will not show any water staining when some of that wet stuff enters the coach. Notice I said when as opposed to IF. We will also replace the fabric material on the legs.Ain't life grand. :-) Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #57 – December 12, 2013, 10:05:32 pm Next Step:Joe sent me a drawing to show me the placement of the cylinders and hoses. It says it is a confidential drawing , etc., so I won't attach it. But if you have the header off, the cylinder placement is obvious. Each cylinder has a T fitting and an elbow. Joe's instruction is to: "Have the room all the way out and gain access to the bottom cylinders. You will see on the cylinders a T fitting and a 90 degree fitting that a hose hooks up to. Hit extend and hold it for about three to five seconds and then remove the hose on the 90 degree fitting on both lower cylinders and cap the fitting on the cylinder. Then let the room sit for however long it takes for this creep in and see if the cylinders start moving the room in on the bottom, or is it only one that starts moving the room in. If one or both do then we will have to replace those cylinders or have you send them in for repair. "Joe wrote that assuming I would not yet have taken the header off. He said the ideal situation would be to cap all 4 cylinders for this test. I have to get caps for the cylinders before I do this.I am still at a loss as to how to correctly remove the plastic that covers the cylinders. Anybody know? If nothing else, I'll take a razor blade to it and cut out a section that will let me access the fittings...but it sounds like I will be removing all of it for at least one cylinder.Pictures of the header joint and the top cylinders attached. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #58 – December 12, 2013, 11:05:49 pm I am not sure how to remove the clear plastic as the country coaches that I worked on did not have that clear plastic shield. Maybe foretravel put it there in case of a hydraulic leak Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #59 – December 13, 2013, 12:11:33 am Quote from: red tractor – December 12, 2013, 11:05:49 pmI am not sure how to remove the clear plastic as the country coaches that I worked on did not have that clear plastic shield. Maybe foretravel put it there in case of a hydraulic leakThat's what it looks like. Protective. Given their use of the RED ATF fluid, it was probably wise. The upper cylinders even have silicon on them! The way FT put the lower ones in, they never expected anyone to have to work on the cylinders. Not only did they put the plastic shields there, but they then GLUED carpet down on them. LOL...I'd have expected Velchro. HWH did say the usual problem is the solenoid valve and the cylinders are seldom at fault. Guess I got lucky. Hopefully someone will know the plan. If not, I'll probably yank the plastic out and then maybe screw some sheet metal pieces over the openings (with adequate silicon). Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #60 – December 13, 2013, 08:57:26 am Hi Brad,When had my 2002 slide seal replaced by HWH recently, we found the clear plastic shields over lower cylinders would simply slide off the ends of the metal tracks - no problem. Undoubtedly this is because I've hadn't messed with it first and also have led a completely favorable life so the RV gods have shined on me favorably.Good luck getting them off, J{im Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #61 – December 13, 2013, 09:32:52 am Not sure but those plastic shields keep the slide from squeaking when traveling down the road, I think. DAN Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #62 – December 16, 2013, 01:22:59 pm Mike Grimes (FOT) called me back this morning. He said the FT does not have any more of that plastic material around, and that the plastic/lexan should be available locally. He suggested a glass shop might be able to cut new pieces for me. I think I have seen some pretty thick table coverings at K-Mart that would likely be thick enough. I believe they are about .030 thick if my vernier caliper is to be believed.Mike said it's purpose was just to keep liquid from getting into the mechanism. But also, I note that they used the bottom pieces to receive a goodly coating of spray adhesive to hold the edge of the carpet down.So I shall rip them out and then seek a local replacement. Likely they were more pliable 11 years ago and would be replaceable, but I don't think the old ones will smoothly reinstall now. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #63 – December 16, 2013, 10:30:52 pm I pulled the upper two plastics out today. While they wouldn't just pull and slide out the ends, when I pulled the top out of the channel it then came out without too much trouble. Knowing that they are just an extra precaution for liquid is good. When I put them back, if they give me too much hassle, I may just slide them into the lower slots and then tape the tops in place.Another item I noted is that there accummulates a lot of dirt and gunk on the top of the slide that is normally unseen due to the header being on place when the slide is in and the awning in place when it is out. Standing on a couple of 2 x 6's, I could see past the train devices and observe the dirty fiberglas. While the slide is in, I am cleaning up that area and waxing it, as the bladder seals up on top and smooth has to be better for that $$$$ bladder to press against.I also noted that the last time my slide was brought in and the cycle completed (less than a week ago), it must not have actually completed fully, even tho the cycle seemed to finish and the red light went out. I say that because I can now see the top locks and they were NOT in place down in the holes as they should have been. I released the bladder and pressed Retract again. The pump came on and this time the lock pins did drop/lock into place. I am going to have to watch and see if they come out from just sitting there, indicating a solenoid valve issue. Hmmm. Another puzzle of the train system. I am basically just exploring the other issues while I wait for the steel caps from HWH to complete the cylinder test next. Hopefully, this will all be helpful for others with the 2002 Train system. I am learning quite a bit as I go along, thanks to HWH instruction and being able to visually inspect more of this system which completely intimidated me 6 months ago. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #64 – December 16, 2013, 10:40:50 pm Hi Brad - Thanks for the continuing commentary. I am with you in mind and spirit. I put our locking pins through the top skin of our slide a number of months ago and had 2 elongated holes to repair. Certainly a source of leakage before I realized what I had done. Needless to say I had that header off and on many times. No leaks now though. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #65 – December 16, 2013, 10:46:43 pm How did that happen, Scott? I surely would like to avoid having that happen to me here. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #66 – December 16, 2013, 10:59:41 pm I am not exactly sure. I do not recall hearing the locking pins go through the to skin but it happened. Probably by not completely cycling our or in. Our 2002s are also special because we are the only ones that have locking pins - I think. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #67 – December 19, 2013, 12:33:52 am Today's commentary on the slide...I got all 4 plastics off yesterday so I could see the cylinders and rods. Then I extended the slide. Nice and smooth. There are bolts with locking nuts that limit the travel of the Train apparatus as it pulls the rods in (thus extending the slide). All 4 cylinders extended to the limiting bolt heads and stopped as appropriate.Three hours later, I went out and surveyed the situation. As usual, the rear of the slide had crept in. I measured the distances between the 4 limiting boltheads and the walls they butt up against. The lower two were approximately .575" (left) and .500" (right). The upper left had a gap of about .125", while the right was still flush and solid. I then released the bladder, so that any resistance it was providing to the creep would be releaved. I then reinflated and measured again. The upper cylinder distances did not change, but the lower two did. Lower left was now at .750 and lower right was .650. So I learned that I was correct to think there was a lot of lateral pressure on the bladder if I just left it alone. That is my big concern here, harming the $$$ bladder. I have sent an email off to Joe Portelli to see if he can determine anything from this information. I am still waiting for the USPS to deliver the steel caps for the next test of all 4 cylinders...but I think this info might tell Joe what he needs to learn. Attached are the pictures of the ends of the 4 cylinder rods and the stop bolts. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #68 – December 19, 2013, 10:44:00 am Scott, we have a 2001 and have locking pins (4). Just FYI. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #69 – December 19, 2013, 11:12:32 am thanks for the input. So we have slide locks on 2001 and 2002 Fore travels. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #70 – December 19, 2013, 02:26:22 pm The rods (3 of them) had extended further when I checked this morning. The top right remains at the stop, and the top left didn't add too much more spacing, but the bottom cylinders are both near the 2" mark.After notifying Joe, I got a response "Yep no question about it you have an internal leak someplace, not sure where but when you get the caps we are going to isolate the cylinders and see if one of those are causing the issue."Have I told you how much I love HWH and Joe? Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #72 – December 20, 2013, 04:03:45 pm I have to report a bit of a setback in the slide-creep identification process today. The caps that HWH sent came in last night, and I took one of the hoses off to cap the elbow. Oops. The caps Joe sent were the wrong ones...I think they were 5/16" instead of 1/4". I emailed the bag's part number to Joe and he said that yes, the wrong ones had been sent and he would get the right ones out to me today. So we'll have another week before anything significant happens. Joe had informed me that there wouldn't be any pressure on the hose, but I should not let it drain itself by hanging down. He told me to start with the cylinders that were showing the most creep (the lower ones). I put a towel down and only lost a tiny bit of fluid when I took the lower right one off briefly. It looks like the actual test will be easy. Once the leaking cylinders are identified, then the caps are to be removed, the lines replaced, and then I'll retract the slide. It must be in the retracted position in order to remove any of the cylinders.So I brought the slide back in for the week and will wait for the new caps. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #73 – December 20, 2013, 07:11:08 pm Can I safely assume that these slide problems don't happen in the '03 and later models? We are shopping '03-'04 models, so I am hoping that is true. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #74 – December 20, 2013, 08:36:36 pm If you find the coach that calls your name buy it and love it. HWH can solve any problem with a trip to Moscow IA. We had trouble with our 2002 from the time we owned it but now after $650 or so at HWH the slides are working perfectly. We LOVE this coach. Quote Selected
Topic: Large slide moves in.