Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #75 – December 20, 2013, 08:42:36 pm Brad - Rats!!!BamaFan - I believe the 01 & 02 are the only slides with locking pins and the 02 is the only year with the Train system. I can not speak to slide problems in other years. There are many on this forum that will not have a coach with slides. Slides require maintenance and just like any other piece of mechanical equipment they can break. My DW had to have at least one slide soooooo we have slides. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Yea - What Rick said. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #76 – December 20, 2013, 08:44:56 pm The 03 and 04 coaches have a different slide mechanism than the 02 coaches. We love our 03 320 40 ft double slide. Good luck on your hunt. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #77 – December 20, 2013, 08:48:31 pm Thanks - I appreciate the reassurances. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #78 – December 20, 2013, 11:22:38 pm Royce & Denise: I let this 2002 slide intimidate me for several years...far too long. I am now determined to get a full understanding of it, and thanks to the help from HWH, I am confident that I will. Having the header off, I now see exactly how it works. And after looking at the HWH drawings, my now-exposed train system, and the emails and phone calls with HWH, I am actually looking forward to the education of learning how to pull out the cylinders when I learn which ones need to be rebuilt. It may be peculiar to the 2002s to have the train system, but when you see it working, it is a simple design that works. Like Johnstons said, I love this coach. I am just too far away from HWH to bring it there, and they are so helpful, this has been a lot of fun. I don't have a need to take the coach out next time for a few more months, so I can learn slowly and share it here for others. Then when I am out on the road, and a slide issue occurs, I won't get my blood pressure up any more.I am a very conservative person, but this slide no longer scares me. Joe has given me a lot of confidence. I am actually going to try to learn and understand how the bladders are replaced, as it really appears to me that it might be something I could do (when and if needed). Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #80 – December 21, 2013, 08:57:20 pm Today's information is about the solenoid valves. A friend (also with a 2002 that is currently creeping) stopped by and dropped off an old solenoid valve for me to examine, along with some HWH documentation that I had not discovered yet.The HWH document that is the instruction sheet, http://www.hwh.com/mi159502.pdf tells you the process about replacing the Extend and the Retract Valves.The new replacement valves do not all have the 1/4" nut. HWH has a new style with a "cam release. This is documented in http://www.hwh.com/mp849999.pdf Attached are pictures of the solenoid valve, and I can see the plier/vice-grip marks that show how it was removed by twisting off. The O-rings are odd. There are 5 rings on the thing. When I got my part order last week, it was supposed to be 8 sets. Now I know why I got 40 rings in total! Some are flat and some are round. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #81 – December 21, 2013, 09:27:38 pm Included this stuff in my file. It's getting big. 15 files and pics so far. I guess I should start the write-up soon. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #82 – January 06, 2014, 04:37:39 pm Next step in the process. I got the caps in the mail from HWH. They are regular steel 1/4" flair caps. I went down to the local "store-with-everything-hydraulic-and-plumbing" and found 4 matching steel plugs. I verified with Joe that plugging the lines that I remove would not impede the testing. Seemed a cleaner plan than just letting them sit open.Pictures below tell the story. The first picture shows an example of one of the lines removed (from the 90 degree elbows) and the cap in place on the cylinder and the plug in place on the line. There was minimal fluid leakage in taking the line off. All 4 look the same.The second picture shows how the cylinder has extended the rod about 1/2" (measured by how far the stop bolt has moved from the aluminum stop wall, which it was flush against at the start of the test), and it was taken about 30 minutes after starting. The third picture was taken about three hours after beginning the test, and it shows the rod has extended around an inch. So far, only the lower-rear cylinder appears to be the culprit. I will wait a while, but the others seem to be remaining fully retracted. At this point, it would seem that the lower front (which had extended about 1/2 the distance of the rear when it was not capped), and the upper front (which had moved only about 1/16 of an inch) probably moved because of the bad lower-rear cylinder.That will be the next step, to conclude if it is only one, then replace all lines where they belong and bring the slide in. It has to be retracted for cylinder removal, I am told. Joe has warned me that there will be some pressure in any cylinder which I find to have moved, and ANY movement is indicative of a bad cylinder. So I plan on a bit of a mess as I replace at least that one line under the dinette. I do not yet know exactly how the cylinder will be removed from the system. Joe said I could order a new one or I could get this rebuilt. Next should be removal pictures. I fear that I may need a special tool that they sell to get it apart and reinstalled, so it may be another long waiting period. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #83 – January 06, 2014, 05:35:43 pm different slide on my 2000 U-320 BUT when I needed both hydraulic cylinders (leaking) fixed/replaced HWH was $450 each and three to four week wait, local (to MOT) hydraulic shop fixed same day for $125 each, no trouble since.May be able to get rebuilt locally? Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #84 – January 06, 2014, 06:58:01 pm Tim, I am planning on waiting to see what they say about cost before I get further. I know most shops like to replace entire manifolds/cylinders, rather than just a few o-rings. Frankly, I don't think there really is much to go wrong inside these things but O-rings. I disassembled my old air cylinders from the air step and the entire concept didn't seem all that difficult.After 6 hours, the other 3 cylinders remained tightly snug as they should have been. So, the most difficult one to get at, the lower rear, is my only culprit with an internal leak-by. I put the system back together, pushed the extend button for a cycle (couple of seconds) and the rod went back to the right place. Then I retracted the slide without a problem. Next step will be removal of that cylinder, once I get told how. I think it *might* actually be disassembled in place and rebuilt, but I will defer to HWH's judgement. On an easier note, I replaced the slide wiper this afternoon. Instead of crumbling white, it is a pretty black. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #85 – January 06, 2014, 08:57:53 pm Good show Brad.....I'm still with you.... Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #86 – January 09, 2014, 01:32:33 pm Brad - I have attached a pic of the bottom left slide cylinder under the Villa dinette seat. This pic is taken directly below the right seat, looking at the slide from the inside. In reference your pic above, would I assume that the distance between the bolt head and the aluminum plate to the right of the bolt head displays the cylinder "Creep"?? Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #87 – January 09, 2014, 02:39:43 pm Quote from: Carol & Scott – January 09, 2014, 01:32:33 pmBrad - I have attached a pic of the bottom left slide cylinder under the Villa dinette seat. This pic is taken directly below the right seat, looking at the slide from the inside. In reference your pic above, would I assume that the distance between the bolt head and the aluminum plate to the right of the bolt head displays the cylinder "Creep"??Precisely. The fluid has pushed past the seals OR the fluid has come from another cylinder that is leaking and that cylinder's leakage has caused this one to move. Three of my cylinders showed varying amounts of creep, but when I isolated them, ONLY my lower rear cylinder looked just like that picture. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #88 – January 10, 2014, 07:50:01 pm Talked to HWH today and asked about repair vs replace cost. The cylinders I have are labeled "AP24220" and the replacement is "RAP90856". New they are $395. She couldn't tell me a repair cost other than the maximum cost would be $276. No progress on cylinder removal today...Our sticks and bricks water heater decided to die last night and it took precedence to be replaced. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #89 – January 10, 2014, 09:41:04 pm As I mentioned - MOT had mine done locally (two of them) for $125 or $100 each, one day turn around - HWH was $450 new, no repair possible through them.I still might have gone with HWH but they quoted 2 - 3 weeks lead time and that was deal killer.....turned out fine so far, two years later.TIm Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #90 – January 11, 2014, 07:54:01 pm Today I got a lot further, mostly with the help and encouragement of my friend Dave as well as my wife.The dinette seats (both) do need to come out. After struggling a bit, I realized that I really could open the slide at this point and have a bit of room to work. After first considering taking the seats off of the mounting frames, I quickly realized it was easier to unbolt the units from the floor instead. Then I turned them upside down on the couch, as you must retract the slide and ose all the space for the next steps.Once I retracted the slide, the next step was to pull up the carpet across the first approximately 6". It was mostly held by the same adhesive as on the front, but there were a few staples also. Putting it back will be easy.There is a board that is about 3" wide that runs the length of the aluminum slide channel. There were about 4 screws across the rear. The front had a couple of beads of silicon, but the bead was easily broken by a little force. Once that board is removed, you will see the aluminum channel which has 10 bolts holding it to the frame of the slide. I supported the frame with about 2" of wood in an open spot. (HWH instructions...you can see the wood in picture #5). While there was initially no weight on it, I noticed later in the process that there was a bit of weight there.Before or after removing those bolts, you must take the outer nuts off of ALL FOUR cylinder rods, which will be in an extended position (as the room is retracted). Release the bladder so that the Extend button will work. Evn tho the slide goes nowhere because all 4 rods are free, the electronics won't let you do anything while the bladder is inflated.When all 4 rods are retracted, you can wiggle off the aluminum channel. Pull it about 2 inches and look to see that the two white rollers on the end of the cylinder are lined up with the slots in the aluminum channel. When they are, pull the cylinder out of the channel and into the room. I at first tried this without having retracted all the rods, but that won't work as the coach doesn't have room to swing the cylinder and extended rod (about 58") into the room.Anyway, when you swing the cylinder into the room, while bringing the aluminum channel towards the center of the coach, the very last brass guides will come out the back of the curve and the train mechanism and cylinder will come out of the aluminum channel easily.At this point, I released both of the solenoids under the coach to remove pressure (the Room extend and the room retract...not the lock solenoids). Then I disconnected the two hydraulic lines and I capped both of them on the cylinder and plugged both of the lines. Very minimal fluid came out.The train and cylinder connection took a lot of head-scratching. It had a slot, like for a screwdriver, but it would not screw off. I finally realized that I could line up the slot with the tiny opening of a tiny snap-ring. After doing so, I held the screwdriver in the slot, but slid over so it was also holding the snap ring...maybe open a teensy bit. I then took a much smaller little $1 store screwdriver blade into the other side of the slot and pried the ring out and up (with my finger covering it so it wouldn't go flying). One mistake I made was to open ALL of the lines on the cylinder, once I got it out. I was trying to get all the fluid out. Apparently, there is a spring inside and once the fluid was gone, the rod extended about half-way and won't stay back in. Just going to make for a longer package to send. Rats.Pictures below are numbered in sequence. Once I get it repaired, the re-installation should be a piece of cake. Then I get to do the re-synch process which will take a little care as all the rods have to be run back and forth a few times to make sure they are in synch with each other. Another clear HWH sheet tells me exactly how to do that. Th only thing in error on that sheet is that it says you can skip the part above about pressing the extend button (retracting the rods) if you are replacing a cylinder. That may be true for other cylinders that have room to be twisted into the room in their extended positions (Upper and lower front cylinders), but definitely not true for the lower rear, and probably not the upper rear either. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #91 – January 11, 2014, 08:03:34 pm Brad you are above my pay grade. I would just have to take to FOT and let them fix it. DAN Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #92 – January 11, 2014, 08:16:48 pm Tim: I will probably just send this to HWH to be rebuilt as I feel a need to support HWH after all the time and support they've provided me on my adventure here. I know they have enabled me to save a lot of labor costs AND actually guided me through the correct process to determine what *really* needs to be bought so I don't just keep buying new parts. I am lucky in that my next planned outing is still around 60 days away, so I do have the time to wait for them to rebuild it.To truly diagnose a slide creep problem with the 2002 Train system requires only a $108 kit from HWH for one test, and 4 steel caps and 4 steel plugs for the second test (the latter just a precaution to avoid a mess).Dan: I tried FOT in 2007. They couldn't find anything wrong...and didn't see the 2 bolts penetrating the slide channel and causing the strain to that cylinder. I didn't know anything about these hydraulics until I decided I was being forced to learn when 2 shops couldn't fix it. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #93 – January 11, 2014, 08:23:39 pm Brad, my sentiments too after all the help HWH has given you. Good decision on your part.John H Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #94 – January 11, 2014, 08:26:35 pm Brad,Thank you for posting the photos and details on the forum - I know they will help others in the future. This is why Steve created the forum.Michelle Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #95 – January 11, 2014, 08:44:26 pm Quote from: Michelle – January 11, 2014, 08:26:35 pmBrad,Thank you for posting the photos and details on the forum - I know they will help others in the future. This is why Steve created the forum.MichelleYou are welcome! I have gotten so much out of the forum that it is always my intention to share as much as I can. This danged slide intimidated me for far too long, and I hope my postings will help others! The replacement and re-synching should be boring and may not get any more pictures tho. I am always, always ready to answer any question I can about this stuff. I'm glad you didn't see this huge thread as too distracting and lengthy. P.s. I tried to use a Yahoo group recently on another topic. I am very grateful that you and Steve have set this up as you have and evolved us from Yahoo. While I enjoyed the earlier FT Yahoo group, Yahoo has messed up groups so badly that I likely wouldn't have bothered to try to participate any more. So Kudos and thanks to both of you! Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #96 – January 11, 2014, 09:06:23 pm Brad, makes perfect sense. In my case I couldn't afford the three weeks or I probably would support HWH directly Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #97 – January 11, 2014, 10:46:19 pm Good Show Brad - I think I can do that too. Will have a rough draft of a " 2002 Slide Creep Document" prepared to this point - and will forward to you in the next week for your review. I have included much of your dialog verbatim (cut and paste). As discussed earlier, with your approval, I will submit it to Barry B. for inclusion in his marvelous web site.Thanks again for showing us/me the way. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #98 – January 11, 2014, 11:58:48 pm Quote from: Carol & Scott – January 11, 2014, 10:46:19 pmGood Show Brad - I think I can do that too. Will have a rough draft of a " 2002 Slide Creep Document" prepared to this point - and will forward to you in the next week for your review. I have included much of your dialog verbatim (cut and paste). As discussed earlier, with your approval, I will submit it to Barry B. for inclusion in his marvelous web site.Thanks again for showing us/me the way.I was gonna say something to Barry. Great idea. We should be able to put it all together and assuage folks' fears of taking this on. Joe answered most questions, but he had a few "dunno's" of his own. It took my getting into it to go "Oh...NOW I get it." So hopefully the pictures will help clarify it. I will take a few more in the reinstall process, as I sort of skipped a little that should have been captured by camera. I was so slow to get it apart because I am really, really hesitant if I am not sure what I will run into down the line. I don't like walking off of cliffs!Glad you are putting it all together. Saves me a LOT of work to get it collected and into a good form. Quote Selected
Re: Large slide moves in. Reply #99 – January 12, 2014, 12:21:54 pm Brad - I figured since you are DOING the work and I have a selfish interest in what and how you are doing it not to mention the value of this forum to me/us and maybe more importantly the identification of this problem and as you aptly stated: "We should be able to put it all together and assuage folks' fears of taking this on", I would try to utilize my interest and produce a document that might be of value to others.I am still not 100% sure if I want to tackle this job but am learning through your experience. I believe that that is what this forum is about. Identification of problem(s), joint problem solving and the exercise of choice as to how to best address/eliminate the problem(s). Quote Selected
Topic: Large slide moves in.