Large slide moves in.

Topic: Large slide moves in. (Read 7532 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #100 – January 12, 2014, 12:58:15 pm

This week is gonna be "Ship the cylinder off and attempt to make my own tool for the snap ring replacement." I'll call tomorrow and get a repair order number and check on the price of the tool. It is a TS27333, Snap Ring Assembly Tool, but I cannot find it in their price list and I found similar tools for nearly $30 used on ebay. Doesn't look too hard to make out of a bolt, so I'll try that today while waiting for Monday to come.

Incidentally, there are two repair kits for Train parts. I shouldn't need any of them because I didn't damage anything getting the snap ring off. RAP90883 is a link repair kit ($73.00) RAP90826 is a roller repair kit ($35.42). The links, altho scored on mine, don't look like any replacement is necessary.

Attached are documents showing the tool, the repair kits, and a drawing of what the snap ring looks like from a manufacturer's website. Near as I can tell, it is a SHM-25.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #101 – January 12, 2014, 03:22:00 pm

Given my limited "machine shop" tools, I took a 2" bolt, hacksawed off the threaded portion, put the head in the drill press' vice,type and proceeded to hollow the end of it. I think I used a 3/8" bit. Then I used a small hobby belt sander alternatively with a Dremel tool to shrink the end of the bolt. Round and round, trying not to sand my fingers. Once I got the install end of the thing down to the proper size, I cut the head off the bolt and more aggressively ground the upper part smaller than the install end. I got it down so it will accept the ring without having to push it on. A nicely swaged mandril tool.

Then I took a nut and drilled out the center so that it will go over the full length of my new tool. That nut will push the ring down and allow it to spread as it goes down the mandril. The countersunk end fits nicely over the shaft and this should be a piece of cake to put the ring back in when the cylinder is returned. I may have to grind off part of the edge of the nut...not sure yet if it will go down far enough.

With all this work, the cost of the tool from HWH will probably be so cheap that I'll buy a real one anyway.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #102 – January 13, 2014, 02:02:40 pm

TS27333 is the correct part number for the snap ring tool. I ordered one for $10.00 and shipped off my cylinder this morning. USPS says it should be there EOD Thursday. HWH said 3-4 days to get it rebuilt and headed back.

So I have about 2 weeks to find a replacement snap ring. HWH told me I should be able to find the rings locally, but I was unsuccessful here in town. Does anyone know where I could get at least one of these? I generally think of snap-rings as consumables that should be replaced when removed. I continue to believe these are identified as SHM-25, but that might not be correct. They are for a 1/4" shaft.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #103 – January 14, 2014, 12:30:15 pm

I contacted Rotor Clip (the manufacturer) via an online form last night, and they instructed me to just order a sample if I only needed a few and it would solve my needs. Within 30 minutes, they confirmed that a sample of 6 (the maximum, according to the webpage) would be in the mail to me today. NO CHARGE!!

They also gave me a link to a retailer. https://www.huyett.com/Products/Fasteners/Retaining-Rings/Snap-Rings/SHM-025.aspx I see the minimum order there is 15, with a cost of $.1725 each. As I have the sample coming, I did not check to see what the total cost would be with shipping.

Here is the Rotor Clip page linking to their retailers. Rotor Express The various retailes call this an SHM-25, SHM-025, SHM-025SA, etc.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #104 – January 14, 2014, 03:56:40 pm

When the new cylinder gets back and is reinstalled, the system needs to be cycled several times to purge air and to get all 4 cylinders to "come into time" together. This cycling occurs while the 4 rods are NOT connected to the room, so care has to be taken to guide the threaded rod ends through the aluminum holes.

My first thought was that I needed to get 4 more people and station one at each cylinder while the 5th person presses the retract button (that pushes the rods out). That didn't sound too feasible, so I made a short 2x3 into 4 guides that will set in the channels and make sure the rods don't mash the threads into the walls as they come out.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #105 – January 14, 2014, 05:46:03 pm

Geeez...

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #106 – January 14, 2014, 08:30:36 pm

Brad, you may be the new "slide guy" expert soon. Don't forget to put a patent on those blocks you made!!
John H

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #107 – January 14, 2014, 10:55:04 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – January 14, 2014, 08:30:36 pm

Brad, you may be the new "slide guy" expert soon. Don't forget to put a patent on those blocks you made!!
John H

Heck, if they work out good, John, maybe I'll put a "Train Slide Repair kit" together! 4 Steel Plugs, 4 steel caps, 4 wood blocks...and one slide support block. That is all it takes to tear it apart and put it back together. I only have instructions for the Train systems tho...I've never seen the other kind(s).

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #108 – January 14, 2014, 11:12:42 pm

Can I be your first customer?

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #109 – January 18, 2014, 09:27:45 pm

Brad,

Good idea...count me in for one.

Jim

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #110 – January 18, 2014, 09:45:23 pm

If this works, maybe I should open a specialized shop here. 2002 Train systems only. Scott and Carol are piecing together the "Instruction guide" and I think it was up to 13 pages so far. I am going to try to take more pictures as I reassemble it.

I had originally told HWH to keep the old parts, but realized my error and I amended my order to have them send me the bad stuff too. I am anxious to see if it is just a few o-rng type seals that go bad. They did acknowledge that they received my cylinder Friday. Wahoo!

I'm happy to help anyone get through this. My first "customer" is gonna be my buddy Dave in town with his creepy 2002 U320.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #111 – January 18, 2014, 09:51:41 pm

Then I guess I'll have to be #2.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #112 – January 18, 2014, 10:36:03 pm

It's out of necessity for us to work on our own here in Havasu. The HWH "official" service place here reportedly "won't touch a FT slide." That is probably a good thing, as I had them install a driveshaft disconnect on my S-10 years ago...and they did EXACTLY what the instructions say not to do as far as cable placement.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #113 – January 27, 2014, 05:58:24 pm

Update: Shipped the Cylinder off 1/13, HWH got it 1/17 (Friday), replaced the end of the cylinder and had it back to UPS on 1/21. It got here today, 1/27, along with a handy little tool to put the snapring on.

1. Snapring tool was most excellent. I used a rubber mallot on it, with a short 2 by 4 placed under the reinstalled pin holding the cylinder to the train. At first, my stroke was too gentle, and the ring did not seat on the pin. The second time, I gave it more and it worked well to get the ring onto the pin, but was not fully seated in the groove, so I used the slide portion of the tool and gave it another tap. Easy. I did get my sample of 6 rings, so I used a new one.

2. You have to hold the cylinder (now attached to the train), and wiggle the aluminum channel so that the rollers go into it properly. Not too hard.

3. Once the rollers are set into the channel from the back, you swing the channel out a bit and swing the cylinder out even further (like straight out to the other wall...W/D cabinet in my case). This lets the base of the cylinder (opposite the rod end) start into the track. Now here is where I ran into an obstacle. The cylinder SHOULD just swivel/bend the train assembly and the end start into the channel. I say start, as the other end (where the rod extends from) will only fit into the aluminum channel where two slots are cut into it...just wide enough for the cylinder's white rollers to slide into their places. You have to pull or push both the channel and the cylinder until they line up. That part is easy. HOWEVER, my cylinder base absolutely would not start into the channel. There are 2 fittings...the T and the elbow...that were so wide that they simply would not enter it and I did not want to gouge up the threads. I even left the plastic caps on the openings, but it was the nut on the T fitting that was the upper problem and the threads on the lower elbow. I retrieved the old, damaged cylinder base and saw that it had been ever-so-narrower at this point of conflict. Maybe the old fittings were screwed a little further into the cylinder? But for whatever reason, I was required to file a wee bit of both the top and the bottom channel edges. Like 1/64" depth and 1/2" long on both top and bottom. I marked with a pencil where the conflict was and then got the cylinder out of my way to use a dremel grinder and a little file. Once that was done, the cylinder went right in.

4. Next was to reinstall the channel with the 10 bolts. They are hard to get started properly, because when they were originally installed, Foretravel grinds off the bottom 1/8" or so to make it smooth. Thus, the bolts must be carefully started in the soft aluminum, and then they will catch properly in the steel threads of the top and bottom of the frame tube.

That is as far as I went today. Tomorrow I will next close the two solenoids and hit extend which will draw in the rods, which I seem to have left out about an inch or two. While doing that, I will ensure that the new cylinder has the two hydraulic lines connected as they should be. As I reassembled it, it looked like it was possible to switch them, so if that rod starts to come out while the others retract, I won't do any harm. Next time, I would take the time to label them as the "T" and the "elbow."

BTW, a replacement cylinder is listed as $395. This one was rebuilt for .75 hr labor ($67.50) and $75.40 for the cylinder end module. When asked if I wanted it repainted for $15, I declined. They shipped the $10 snap ring tool with it as promised, so no extra freight for that part.

Next will be the re-synch process with the help of my friend as well as my wife to make sure all 4 rods are headed where they are supposed to go. It is a little intimidating to me, so I'm gonna start it when I am fresh and ready for a challenge. Not today.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #114 – January 27, 2014, 06:15:42 pm

Brad, we are waiting with baited breath. Hope for instant success. You've been through enough.

Larry

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #115 – January 27, 2014, 06:57:07 pm

Good news - great job.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #116 – January 27, 2014, 07:54:11 pm

Here are pictures of the notches in the channel where the top end of the cylinders go into the channel, as well as pictures of the upper and lower grindings I had to do to get the base installed. I'm sure it was just different tolerances in the cylinders.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #117 – January 27, 2014, 08:42:14 pm

Couldn't leave it alone HUH?

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #118 – January 27, 2014, 08:51:43 pm

Quote from: Carol & Scott – January 27, 2014, 08:42:14 pm

Couldn't leave it alone HUH?

Naw... I just forgot to post the pictures before. I did close the solenoid valves, but that's it. My friend with the creepy 2002 U320 is coming over tomorrow about 11 and we'll learn how difficult it is to synch the thing and then lock the rod ends into place.

The sideposts for the header are already on, so it may all be together and done tomorrow. I'm waiting to get the slide back open before I try to reinstall the dinette. That and putting up the header are all that will be left once synched.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #119 – January 28, 2014, 08:47:56 am

Getting closer.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #120 – January 28, 2014, 04:14:03 pm

Hopefully, this is the last installment. My friend Dave came over and with his and my wife's help, we did the synch process.

1. I had her touch the retract button briefly to make sure the new cylinder was properly hooked up..and the hoses weren't backwards. It shot out about 6" (the right direction).

2. I now know why you are instructed to support the slide when the rods are unbolted. When the bladder is deflated, the upper part of the slide tilts in. This keeps the upper cylinder rods from fully extending through the holes to be locked back in place. I had a couple blocks there, but I should have had them in place BEFORE I had released the rod ends. I had blocked it AFTER, but before taking the aluminum channel off. Apparently, it had already tilted a little. See #3.

3. Since the bottom generally does "lead" the top a bit, a total of 3 people worked out great for the task. My wife was at the button, and Dave was at the forward, lower rod while I was at the rear lower rod. We had her hit the RETRACT button and we guided the extending rods through the lower assemblies. Then we went to the top ones which were still about an inch out. She pressed the RETRACT button again and we got them a little further, but still not synched together by the time it stopped moving. We repeated this process a couple of times and everything finally came together. The top rods were not completely through the holes, yet the pump shut off and they were now in synch with each other. That is when we realized that the top of the slide was tilted in a bit (which elongates the train assembly and the rods are pulled back a bit. We gave the upper aluminum channels a bit of a shove, first the front, then the rear, and we got enough threads coming through to actually put the upper part of the slide in the right place by simply tightening the nuts on the rods. Then we put the nuts on the lower cylinders.

4. With a deep breath, I pressed the EXTEND button.

5. That slide has NEVER been so smooth and quiet as it glided itself into place. Back in and back out. Same result. Perfectly quiet and perfectly in synch. Ahhhh.

6. Two hours later, no creep. No creaking, no nothing. It just sits there doing what it is supposed to do: Staying in the fully extended position.

Tonight will be adult refreshment night. Total cost to get this problem properly tested, diagnosed and repaired was approximately $300, including the $108 Isolation kit. I could kick myself for doing without the slide for so long.

So, Scott, I'm done. You can have a go at the finished product if you like. As noted above, there were a couple of surprises and "Oh, I see" moments, but frankly, the entire process is pretty simple. Discounting all my fears, removing the header was the worst part. I suspect replacing the front lower would have been more difficult with the Couch. My dinette is back in, modified header is screwed in place, and a little cleaning and vacuuming is all that's left.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #121 – January 28, 2014, 04:17:03 pm

By the way, forget the wood block guides. Not helpful and not necessary.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #122 – January 28, 2014, 05:32:16 pm

Outstanding. Pretty exciting.

Please advise how long it took from the time you sent the cylinder until the time you got it back. I would like to get mine done before the end of Feb. or we will have to wait until we get to Casa Grande in March. the first week of Feb we are going tho the M&G plant for supplemental brake install so that will leave me 3 short weeks. Don't be surprised when I call during my cylinder removal and install.

It will take me a couple of days to get the doc back to you for review and stuff. First I must compare the draft I sent to you and the doc you sent back to me, make adjustments and add your new stuff.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #123 – January 28, 2014, 05:38:08 pm

Quote from: Carol & Scott – January 28, 2014, 05:32:16 pm

Outstanding. Pretty exciting.

Please advise how long it took from the time you sent the cylinder until the time you got it back.

I posted that above..."Shipped the Cylinder off 1/13, HWH got it 1/17 (Friday), replaced the end of the cylinder and had it back to UPS on 1/21. It got here today, 1/27, along with a handy little tool to put the snapring on." So right at 2 weeks, but you see it takes 5 days via UPS. 10 days transit and 3 days in HWH. If you were in a hurry and wanted to pay for faster UPS, you could do the whole thing in a week I imagine.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #124 – January 28, 2014, 05:56:42 pm

Howdy Brad and Christine,
Congrats on getting this slide issue resolved!!! You have done a outstanding job with documentation and explanations. Although, we don't have a slide, I think, this string would give lots of folks confidence to tackle the slide creep problem.
Good Luck, Dave and Nancy A

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