Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

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Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

December 10, 2013, 05:03:30 pm

Well, our coach just passed its 16th birthday and, during my semi-annual propane PM's, I found indications that I need to repair/replace our NORCOLD 982 (highly reliable to date and never subject to a recall). I found external Chromate showing at the burner stack so the unit is now placed out of service and isolated.
Looking more seriously at my options, I have several questions for those of you that have made the absorption refrigerator replace/repair decisions.
We still feel strongly about our KISS principle and we WILL continue boon-docking, from time to time, so I either have to continue with a safe Absorption Refrigerator design and installation or I have to add more battery capacity and an inverter dedicated to a residential refrigerator. I am not willing to get into deeper battery cycles and solar panel complexities at this time. I ran 50% draw-downs on our 12 year old MK Gels recently and they are still showing 89% original capacity, so I'm not anxious to modify our routine treatment of the coach DC systems.
Here are my questions:

Has anyone had any kind of negative installation or operating experience with the Amish built "RV Cooling Unit Warehouse" (DIY replacement) Absorption Units? From the attached MS Excel spreadsheet (work in progress), it is a clear contender. We are NOT going to travel to Amish country at this time of year and the DIY process appears to be very reasonable, even possible within the coach. I will do the repair myself.

The WHIRLPOOL and Sears KENMORE residential units require a good amount of cabinet modification on top of the cabinet interior safety upgrades. I'm not averse to that, but, it appears that even with cabinet modifications which will place the door significantly "off-center", the door will bear against the mirrored wall each time the door is opened. Is that a problem and how do you guard against inadvertent mirror damage? Will the door even open all the way?

With minimal effort, our interior matching wood panel inserts look like new day in and day out, even after 16 years. How do you keep the residential refrigerator black and SS panels looking unblemished?

What have you been able to do to accommodate the highly reduced shelving and door storage as compared with the original 7.5 Ftᵌ NORCOLD 982? The 10.3 Ftᵌ HAIER and the 10.7 Ftᵌ WHIRLPOOL and KENMORE models have 37% more interior capacity but then they provide you with 25% less shelving which leads to more than 35% lost use of the refrigerator volume (unless goods are just stacked).

What has anyone done to accommodate the lack of a shelf in the Whirlpool freezer, and the inefficient space utilization in the HAIER door design?

I've seen the several attempts at overcoming the free swinging doors while underway and the shifting of refer. contents in the new "nonresidential" environment. Does anyone have other designs?

Small (10/11 Ftᵌ) residential units appear to have far less robust and substantial designs when it comes to latches, controls, shelves, trays, bins and door hinges as compared to the NORCOLD 982 equivalent components. Has anyone experienced failures? Are replacement parts readily available?

Does anyone have anything else to offer for these Whirlpool, Hanover and Haier (or other U270 compatible) repair/replacement units?

Thanks in advance,
Neal

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #1 – December 10, 2013, 05:35:22 pm

Neal,

A bunch of this is covered in past posts if you have run a search or two.

Amish will work if you are good at DIY, and will be lowest cost. Tool my Norcold apart in my OREG after 16 years. Decided I din;t want DIY and replaced with New Absorption replacement which was an exact fit.

When my absorption unit on my current 2000 U-320 started acting up, the easiest replacement from a fit standpoint was a 35 1/2 wide - 36 " wide residential. Absorption would have been more for the refrigerator and even more for the cabinet mods, since no current model came close in size for some reason.

Yes we stack stuff, and yes there is WAY more space in a residential of an equal size than absorption.

I have French doors, stainless steel. Use lemon pledge on the doors, seem to keep smudges to minimum. Only freezer door would hit opposite cabinet know, we know it and are careful.

Run referig all night on standard inverter that comes with coach, auto start never kicks on the Genny. I boon dock all the time at NACSCAR, but not afraid to run Genny a bit, read somewhere here that engine is 8,000+ hour rated, will never get there.

YMMV. Like the aqua-hot, will never go back to absorption.

Good luck with your project!

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #2 – December 10, 2013, 05:46:57 pm

Hi Tim,
I have followed the posts carefully over time and I've, in the last few days, reviewed them all.
As you know, in the 36 foot coaches, every inch is important and most of my questions have to do with squeezing every available bit of opportunity out of our limited real estate.
The questions I've asked are ones that I haven't been able to find answers to through FoFum searches or through direct discussions with other U270 owners (as well as other coach friends).
Thanks for the input though,
Neal
PS: Curiously, from actual measurement and careful calculation, I've noticed that many residential refrigerators are overstated in terms of volume while NORCOLD is not. And residentals tend to squander their volume with poor interior layout and design, whereas NORCOLD makes every cubic centimeter count.

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #3 – December 10, 2013, 05:50:51 pm

Neal, as mentioned there have been many fridge changes by members, us included, and would not go back to old. The doors on our Whirlpool are held tight by the simple latch that I fitted, and it is almost un noticed as I painted it black too.
We have no problems with loss of space and ours runs off a 1000watt Pure sine extra inverter that easily handles it and the tv etc etc. Less stand by current loss than using the Xantrex 2500. Overnight the battery loss is around 8% and of course our batteries are topped up by solar (which you do not want). The circuit for it is by way of a DPDT switch so we can change to shore/gen/inverter or to the smaller onverter.
If you want to see my latch I will send pictures, and if you email Barry and Cindy they have seen ours and I am sure they will give you an honest opinion.
Our old one was double doors and this one single so I made a slide out cabinet in space left over.
Much better use.

John H

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #4 – December 10, 2013, 06:11:24 pm

Sorry Neal, understand the specificity of your questions.

Holding the doors not an issue, Velcro on French doors, sliding door locks on single doors.

Amish unit a really good option cost wise IF you are pretty handy. I do a lot of handyman stuff and Habitat Builds and once I took mine apart, thought better of putting in the new coil. You may be much better than I, or maybe I was just a chicken.

Yes, change out of unit can be done within coach , messy and right fit but it can be done

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #5 – December 10, 2013, 06:19:24 pm

actually the lock I made up is not a slider and it can be made to work on french doors too. You just need around 3/8 " space between upper and lower door.
John H

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #6 – December 10, 2013, 06:47:39 pm

FWIW,
My FT is also older and the Dometic is doing pretty well. Freezes my drinks when cold outside on highest setting and does ok when hot out. When it fails, I think I will go with the Whirlpool/Haier type home refer. However, I did once in a previous SOB change out my 3 way dometic to a new replacement ( 2 way Norcold). I will say that I owned that motorhome for about 5 more years and never had an issue with it. If I were to consider changing refers as you are and wanted to keep the absorption type as my refer, then I probably would just go get a new Norcold or Dometic and change them out. I frankly like just not having issues for a while, and the effort and additional costs may be worth it.

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #7 – December 10, 2013, 07:09:34 pm

I did the "RV Cooling Unit Warehouse" replacement two years ago for our Dometic. I did it by myself in the salon of the coach. It took a couple of days. With a little help and experience, it could be done in about four hours.

There was very little collateral damage

and the unit has performed well. I broke one door handle and left a couple of scratches. Both of those issues can be easily fixed. If doing the repair by yourself, make a platform in the hallway in front of the unit so that you can slide the unit out and back in. I improvised a ramp to get the unit down to the floor and then back up to height for installation.

I recently added the Fridge-Fix fan to the interior and have been pleased with the results.

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #8 – December 10, 2013, 07:19:44 pm

The absorption refer advantages in a low power consumption use are well known. Unless significant solar is to added or you only use your coach plugged in or do not mind the gen running you might need to replace the batteries IMO. New deka's apparently exceed the normal rating by a fair amount. I am not an expert but I remember my expert buddy saying something about normal gels measuring 1225 something but the new deka's frequently measured 1350 or more.

Mine showed similar percentage worn but dropped a fair amount of amp hours under medium use. Much less drop since a put new ones in.

Its a system and if it consumes more power it has to be put back in somehow.

Duh.

Bob

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #9 – December 10, 2013, 07:36:38 pm

even if you DO not add solar and drive for a few hours each day after a night on the lower 1000w inverter you will replace all lost power out of batteries. You DO not need to run genset for this loss. If you are parked with shore power then no issue. If you are parked for a few days and no shore power, then yes you will have to use genset to replace battery loss. Personally do not see a problem with it all and feel that this issue is "over thought by many" I actually speak from experience on this one!!
John H

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #10 – December 10, 2013, 08:59:54 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – December 10, 2013, 05:50:51 pm

...................Overnight the battery loss is around 8% and of course our batteries are topped up by solar (which you do not want). ......................
If you want to see my latch I will send pictures....................

John H

Understand the 8%, John, but you have (3) 8D's and I have only (2), as well as a power hungry CPAP machine. So, if I'm trying to stay in the top 25% of my capacity, I need another 8D or more generator run time.
I'd sure appreciate a good picture of your door latch design, to add to my thinking.

Quote from: John Haygarth – December 10, 2013, 07:36:38 pm

even if you DO not add solar and drive for a few hours each day after a night on the lower 1000w inverter you will replace all lost power out of batteries. You DO not need to run genset for this loss. If you are parked with shore power then no issue. If you are parked for a few days and no shore power, then yes you will have to use genset to replace battery loss. Personally do not see a problem with it all and feel that this issue is "over thought by many" I actually speak from experience on this one!!

I agree on all points. From my experience, though, a residential refrigerator solution to my problem, without adding to my battery capacity, would more than double my boon-docking daily generator run times, which would become tiresome. I've done most of my generator maintenance myself and the Isuzu/Gen set is doing just fine at 2985 hours. I did have Powertech do a thorough evaluation a couple of years ago, in case I was overlooking anything. It was continue on "as-is". They told me that they have identical units on islands that were approaching 11,000 hours without overhaul. Just unskilled maintenance, reasonable fuel and clean air. But, I'd just prefer being as gentle on the machinery as is reasonable.

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – December 10, 2013, 07:09:34 pm

I did the "RV Cooling Unit Warehouse" replacement two years ago for our Dometic. I did it by myself in the salon of the coach. It took a couple of days. With a little help and experience, it could be done in about four hours........................I recently added the Fridge-Fix fan to the interior and have been pleased with the results.

I remember when you did your repair, Dave and I looked at your posts again recently. There are several good UTube videos available now also. I already have the support stand built, as I'll need it either way.
I tried the DIY computer fan route and ran into long term reliability problems. If I go with the RV Cooling Unit Warehouse solution, I want to try theirs, particularly since they offer the 5 year warranty. Thanks for the input.
Neal

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #11 – December 10, 2013, 09:22:03 pm

Neal, I don't know how similar our coaches are regards the refrigerator as my coach is older. I replaced my Norcold refrigerator with a new Norcold model that was the same size and fit the opening without any modifications. If you do that you may want to redo the lining of the compartment with something that is somewhat fireproof like sheet metal or hardie board. The refrig manual said the back of the refrig should be close to the wall but not touching it. The original FT installation was not like that with about 4" of space between the outside wall and the back of the refrig. I built out the wall with some wood framing, filled the space with fiberglass, and covered it with sheet aluminum. If the back of the refrig is close to the wall the rising air has to move over the coils. It worked okay in Las Vegas with the temperature over 100. I also put some sheet aluminum on the sides of the compartment that was already insulated and added some insulation above the refrig. I had to remove a window in order to get the old refrig out and the new one in. I also had a platform the same height as the bottom of the compartment, that helped make it easy to slide in and out. Although the outside dimensions of the new refrig is the same as the old one, my wife says that it is not as deep inside as the old one. I decided to replace the whole unit as the inside of the old refrig was beginning to show its age.

Forgot to mention that I made my own oak plywood inserts for the doors using 1/4" ply. I had to thin the edges in order to get it to fit. Just used a belt sander on the back side along the edge. It's a fairly decent match with the rest of the coach. You may have to go to more than one big box store to find some decent looking oak ply.

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #12 – December 10, 2013, 09:26:13 pm

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – December 10, 2013, 08:59:54 pm

I tried the DIY computer fan route and ran into long term reliability problems. If I go with the RV Cooling Unit Warehouse solution, I want to try theirs, particularly since they offer the 5 year warranty. Thanks for the input.
Neal

I expect the fans from "Warehouse" are good quality. The folk who build Fridge-Fix claim to use high quality components. Their warranty is two years.

I can hear the hum of the motors when the refrigerator is closed, but it is relatively quiet and does not annoy. NO ice collects on the cooling fins and the temperature throughout the box is much more uniform than without the fans. The unit has a plenum that spreads the draft of the fans across the full width of the cooling fins. Installation was fast and easy.

And --- it has those way cool blue lights!!

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #13 – December 10, 2013, 11:01:17 pm

Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker – December 10, 2013, 09:22:03 pm

.....................If you do that you may want to redo the lining of the compartment with something that is somewhat fireproof like sheet metal or hardie board.........
.....................I had to remove a window in order to get the old refrig out and the new one in..............
.....................Forgot to mention that I made my own oak plywood inserts for the doors using 1/4" ply......................................

I'll be sure that the compartment is safer when I'm done. I've seen some cabinet interiors on SOB's that were obscenely unsafe (charred wood and dry rot from water intrusion). While the FT's are much, much better, as Pierce and others have shown, there are easy ways to improve even the FT's.
In terms of cooling ability, we've never had any problems maintaining 0 degrees and less than 40 degrees with any outside temperature conditions. Not sure why that has been the case. I'm also not sure how many others have/had the NORCOLD 982 unit and whether that might be the key. The only difficulties we have ever had were the fins frosting up under humid, heavy use conditions and the limited size. But even with the limited size, Brenda says that neither our 23 cu. ft. bottom freezer Kenmore Elite in NH nor our 27 cu. ft. side by side GE Profile in FL will hold as much (refrigerator section to refrigerator section) as the "little" 7.5 cu. ft. Norcold does. Those two have big freezer sections, but refer to refer............about the same.
I may be wrong but it looks to me as though removing my screen door and the handrail near the copilot chair will allow me to take the old NORCOLD 982 out. It is tight but the tape measure says yes. If it looks like it will mark anything up, I'm not averse to removing the dining table window. I installed it and removal is but a hiccup away. We have some nice staging here at RiverBend and many helping hands....so no problem if it comes to that.
I was hoping to use the present refer door inserts if I went with any of the NORCOLD options. I've always felt that the "built in" look speaks of consistent class and elegance. But your inserts didn't fit the new box? The door outside dimensions look to be the same.
Thanks, Jerry

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – December 10, 2013, 09:26:13 pm

...........The folk who build Fridge-Fix claim to use high quality components. Their warranty is two years................

Dave,
I've added that to my spread sheet. Looks like a great option that I need to understand better
Thanks,
Neal

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #14 – December 12, 2013, 05:42:14 pm

Neal, here are a few pics of my lock for Res fridge.
JohnH

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #15 – December 12, 2013, 06:16:23 pm

The interior fan from Cooling Unit Warehouse has sure solved the frost-on-the-coil issue for us. I'm sure the temp is more uniform as well. Good investment so far.

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #16 – December 12, 2013, 10:07:07 pm

Quote from: Johnstons – December 12, 2013, 06:16:23 pm

The interior fan from Cooling Unit Warehouse has sure solved the frost-on-the-coil issue for us. I'm sure the temp is more uniform as well. Good investment so far.

Do you have a side by side dometic? My freezer side metal parts get frost fairly quickly. Is the fan on the refer side only?

Bob

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #17 – December 12, 2013, 10:09:27 pm

Thanks John. Got it.
Thanks Rick. The fan from the Cooling Unit Warehouse would be my choice. The Fridge-Fix unit that JD pointed to looks to be too large (18" X 4" X 2" free volume on overhead, in front of cooling fins) for the small NORCOLDS. Nice looking design though.
Neal

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #18 – December 12, 2013, 10:26:53 pm

Neal, about 4 months ago I ordered the Amish unit for my Dometic fridge. I have a '99 270, 36 ft. Anyway I installed the unit with the fridge laying on the couch. One problem was where the cooling unit protrudes into the freezer. It didn't fit real well but I could have lived with that. It cooled well until my maiden voyage to buy more propane which was about a month and a half after the install. I had just left the drive when the smell of ammonia hit me. The unit had given it up. D#%m! To make a long story short, I got my money back. They didn't even want the unit returned. I bought a new Dometic fridge from PPL and all is well. Lesson learned!

Dennis Davis

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #19 – December 13, 2013, 12:01:13 am

Dennis,
Was the Amish unit that you installed a refurbished Dometic unit, rebuilt to Amish specifications?

Or was it a brand new Amish unit designed and built from scratch by the Amish? The RV Cooling Unit Warehouse sells both. Do you have RVCUW model number(s) that would clarify which Dometic replacement unit you installed?

When you removed the Refrigerator, after the RVCUW failure, were you able to determine the point of failure and was it possibly related to the poor fit of the unit with the original box? The RVCUW instructions regarding the need to "carefully bend things with pry bars", in order to precisely form the replacement unit into the existing box configuration, are really turning me off.

Also I'm being turned off by the RVCUW precautions that Freezer cooling plate holes and refrigerator cooling fin holes may not line up very well, but just force them to fit by deforming the RVCUW unit until the anchor screws can be started", then tighten everything down.

Thanks for the input,

Neal

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #20 – December 13, 2013, 09:41:43 am

Neal, my old fridge was a RM 3862. The "Amish" unit was new, painted white. The leak occurred near the 120 volt heating element located in the flue. The original unit leak was near the same location! I talked to the fellow who sells the unit and he had me call the Amish manufacture. They were accommodating, never dodged me etc. I hated the fact it didn't work out but so it goes.

I took off the screen door "check", so it would open farther and walked the new unit through the door.

Hope this helps...........

Dennis Davis

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #21 – December 13, 2013, 11:15:09 am

I thought that Amish propane refrigerators do not have the 120-volt heating element, which is very useful when shore power is available.

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #22 – December 13, 2013, 12:34:43 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – December 13, 2013, 11:15:09 am

I thought that Amish propane refrigerators do not have the 120-volt heating element, which is very useful when shore power is available.

Our new cooling unit was a direct replacement for the original, including a place for the 120VAC heating element. The old heating element failed a few months I installed the cooling unit. I bought a new 120VAC element from RVCUW.

The only modification I had to make for the new unit to fit was to get new stainless steel screws to secure the fin unit and back of the freezer unit to the cooling unit. The new screws needed to be 1/4" longer than the original in order to get a bite on the new unit.

Our refrigerator is a Dometic NDR1062.

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #23 – December 13, 2013, 04:09:19 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – December 13, 2013, 11:15:09 am

I thought that Amish propane refrigerators do not have the 120-volt heating element, which is very useful when shore power is available.

Barry and Cindy,
The AMISH themselves don't use refrigerators with 120 Vac, but the RV Cooling Unit Warehouse is an authorized vendor of the AMISH re-manufactured, as well as "AMISH BAND NEW", Dometic and Norcold cooling units which are designed to use both propane and 120Vac.

As I understand it, the AMISH, being practical, quality oriented, good businessmen, grew tired of the many absorption refrigerator problems/failures. To increase reliability and safety, they significantly redesigned the common absorption refrigerator problem areas, incorporating better burner regions/stacks, materials and fill gas processes/mixtures. All of the AMISH units (reman'd as well as brand new) are done to AMISH spec's, which are quite different from other available reman'd or new replacement cooling units.

The AMISH "brand new" cooling units have much heavier, more durable materials throughout, but fit the old Dometic and Norcold boxes as "plug and play" cooling unit replacements. If one needs a new 120Vac heater, control board, gas solenoid valve, burner nozzle, etc. one still has to provide those on your own.
Neal

Re: Absorption Refrigerator Options in a U270

Reply #24 – December 13, 2013, 04:34:31 pm

I even considered the Amish panel when our fridge packed up but after adding up the cost (we had double door) plus shipping by truck to Xtreme (we were there at time) and the hassle of all the change over. I figured we could buy 4 of the whirlpool ones and similar amount of work to change over to single door. We also did the slide out pantry which is a far better change than than keeping the abs' style one. By the way a good deal of the cost saving helped toward the solar install too. The decision to go electric was for me a NO BRAINER.
John H

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