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Insurance Question

Peggy and I are in the process of a major renovation to our coach since we bought it last Jan.  We had David put in new flooring in Nov and the factory added an electrical cord reel, roof coating, and fantastic fan to the bedroom.  We currently in the middle of new upholstery, MCD blinds, LED lighting upgrades and some remodel of the the interior woodwork.  I'm replacing all the vertical window valences that were upholstered with cherry.  I think the replacement value of the coach is now significantly higher than when we bought it. 

I talked to our insurance agent (Overland) and they need an appraisal to raise our coverage.  As a side note, I think they offered me my choice on how much to insure it for last year but now won't change it on my request.  I talked with our local RV dealer and they'll do a "NADA" appraisal for $100 and FOT sales said the same.  Neither indicated they would actually take the current condition of the coach into consideration.  Anybody else face this issue and if so, how'd you work it out?
Rich and Peggy Bowman
2002 U270 3610 WTFS, build #5939--"Freedom"
2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit 4xe
SMI AirForceOne brake system
PakCanoe 15

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #1 –
I use RV Insurance & Commercial Vehicle Insurance | Explorer RV and I have always told them what the value was.  They have more than one company, and I think I now have Triumph, a subsidiary of Great American.  You might check them out.  I wouldn't incur a bill just to be *allowed* to insure my motorhome.
The selected media item is not currently available.Brad & Christine Slaughter
Was:  1990 U280 36'
Was:  2002 U270 36' (With a bathroom door) Build #5981
Is:  2021 Leisure Travel Van Wonder 24RL
2015 Jeep JKU, 2003 S10 QC 4x4 or 2017 C-Max
Lake Havasu City, AZ (or Gillette, WY)

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #2 –
Quote from: richb3125 –
I talked to our insurance agent (Overland) and they need an appraisal to raise our coverage.  As a side note, I think they offered me my choice on how much to insure it for last year but now won't change it on my request.  I talked with our local RV dealer and they'll do a "NADA" appraisal for $100 and FOT sales said the same.  Neither indicated they would actually take the current condition of the coach into consideration. 

It sounds like you currently have an ACV (actual cash value) policy and are interested in changing to an Agreed Value policy.  Agreed Value does require an appraisal.  Insurance options are also dependent on the state you're registered/insured in.  The initial application for insurance may have had a couple of options because you had just bought the coach and had a receipt (essentially the Agreed Value at the time, but again this is probably state-dependent).
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Michelle –
Agreed Value does require an appraisal.
Sorry, that isn't correct for my AZ policy with Triumph.  I have been consistently telling them annually to drop the Agreed Value, and they have always done so.  Possibly because of the fact that I am probably a bit  low as far as real retail value goes, but they've never requested anything from me like an appraisal.
The selected media item is not currently available.Brad & Christine Slaughter
Was:  1990 U280 36'
Was:  2002 U270 36' (With a bathroom door) Build #5981
Is:  2021 Leisure Travel Van Wonder 24RL
2015 Jeep JKU, 2003 S10 QC 4x4 or 2017 C-Max
Lake Havasu City, AZ (or Gillette, WY)

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #4 –
I can understand an insurance company lowering the insured value of a commodity that depreciates in value without an appraisal. I can also understand why they would want to appraise before increasing the insured value. Otherwise folks could increase the insured value to higher levels than the commodity is actually worth. A person could make a really good profit by insuring a coach worth 40K for say 75K and then have an "accident" that totals the coach. I know no one on the Forum would even think of doing such a thing....but it wold be a great way to work one's way to purchasing a 400K+ coach with the insurance company" money. :P

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #5 –
We insure with Overland and wanted to insure our coach for the replacement value or as Michelle says: Agreed Value.  Our Actual Cash value would have been based on our purchase price. Our replacement or Agreed Value was based on the appraisal of our coach and current value of other coaches of like type.  We did specify what upgrades we had completed and the appraiser took this into account when they provided an appraisal.  I presented the appraisal to Overland and they insured our coach at the Agreed Value.  The value of the coach has to be established somehow and NADA and other like value assessing organizations do not have enough data points for our coaches to establish an accurate value.  In our case we paid significantly less than other 2002 FTs on the market at the time we purchased and wanted insurance coverage that would replace our coach at present values if required. 

Since that time - March of '13 -  we have upgraded and replaced many things, I guess increasing the value of our coach.  However, I do not think that I can increase my coverage based on these upgrades/repair/replacement costs.

Just my $.02

Good luck.  ;D

Scott & Carol Seibert
2001 42' double slide U320 - Sold
Previous - 2002 36' U320

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #6 –
Scott, I'm guessing that your upgrades and replacements will exceed what we paid for our coach! I wonder, though, if you show proof of the cost of the upgrade to your insurance carrier, whether they would agree to an increase in Agreed Value based on the receipts you have.

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #7 –
Roland,

Well stated. Also not good to "underinsure" an asset. Guys got into trouble with airplanes a while back, trying to save money by underinsuring aircraft. Had an incident, adjustor came out, and because the repaired airplane was worth more than the policy value, the insurance company was incented to declare a total loss and pay off face value of policy, fix airplane and sell for more than the cost to fix and the policy pay off. Happened twice that I know of in the late 70's.

Generally expect to pay more per $1,000 insured for an agreed value policy if the asset insured is being insured for a significant amount greater than average "book" value.
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #8 –
David 

Don't' know.  I guess it might be worth the question.  Our total Cost, including upgrades/repairs is still well under our Appraised Value.  So I figure at our replacement value we should be able to acquire a comparable coach should our Ol' Girl be considered totaled.

I would guess that someone would insure anything for a price.
Scott & Carol Seibert
2001 42' double slide U320 - Sold
Previous - 2002 36' U320

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #9 –
I know that you don't want to buy more insurance than you need, although I would think the insurance company would be happy to take my money if I did.  I fully expect that the coach would be appraised after an accident and before the insurance company would settle and they wouldn't pay more than that.  The renewal notice contained an explanation of the policy including the fact that they will pay "current market value" or "insured value", which ever is less.

I'm just struggling with where to get a good "market value" appraisal--not one from looking in the book at a standard FT with no add-ons or recent renovations.  I did get a good lead on a appraiser with a PM from one of our members and I'll try to followup on that in the near future.

Any other leads would be appreciated because the current one is 200 miles away--in the wrong direction for any of our planned travels.  We'll be headed west from Ohio in the spring.

Thanks,

Rich
Rich and Peggy Bowman
2002 U270 3610 WTFS, build #5939--"Freedom"
2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit 4xe
SMI AirForceOne brake system
PakCanoe 15

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #10 –
Greetings,

Our experience with this specific thing. Auto Owners ins, on my 88 would not allow us to insure above "market value" of 12K. Even when I pointed out improvements and sale listings on the net. Appraisal by their designated company for $200 that I pay.

Same with u280 now with Progressive but I have sale document so thats the basis.

So if you sold your personal coach to your family trust, where your the beneficiary the trust may be able to get insurance at the sale price.

I am not a Lawyer or accountant just read this some where.
The selected media item is not currently available.
My advice and experiences are Free, you decide if they are worth anything .

John - driving Old Faithful
1994 U280 GV
C8.3, Banks, Pacbrake, 900 watts, Resonator, XLHD tow dolly
Retired Army Warrant Officer

Life is what you make of it - if it is lemons, make lemonade!
Former Coaches:
1988 GV 40' ORED 300HP CAT - 9 years
1990 Winnebago LeSharo - 3 years
2000 Newmar London Aire - 3 years (#18 of 23 produced)

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #11 –
We had an appraisal done by:
 
Automotive Appraisal Service
4675 Lakeview Ave
Suite 109-H
Yorba Linda, CA 92886-2465
800-495-2525
automotiveappraisals.com

They were recommended by our insurance broker, Miller RV Insurance Co.

You fill out a questionaire, take a bunch of photos of your rig, time stamped by including a current newspaper front page in the photos, and then submit.  I think it cost ~$170.

Our insurance company (Victoria Insurance Co) accepted their appraisal for declared value with no hassle.

Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #12 –
I worked in the property casualty claims biz before retiring. One thing I would encourage anyone to do is to read your policy language regarding what happens in the event of a loss. I have seen some policies which were agreed/stated value that indicated that they could replace your item with one of like kind and quality. That might make you happy but it may also be that they can do that at a substantial cost less than what you have been paying premiums for.

I compare this to insuring specific pieces of jewelry. It always amazed me that most jewelers were more than happy to overstate the value of your item. The insurance company then charges you a premium based on that dollar amount. However, the policy stated they could replace with like kind and quality which they often did. Now that may not be likely to happen with regards to a used Foretravel but it can pay to be sure you understand your coverage.

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #13 –
Jim is exactly right. As an agent for a large company I see how various companies settle claims on a regular basis.

The premise of insurance is to "make you whole" after a loss. Well, all they have to do that with is dollars, and sometimes dollars just aren't enough. If the jeweler gave you an appraisal for grandma's ring for $10,000 he is saying if you lose it I believe I can replace it for no more than $10,000 in the coming year or so. He takes into account price swings in gold and diamonds.  If you accidentally flush it, the insurance company has a description of cut, color, carat, clarity, and the weight and intricacy of the setting.  The insurance company pays for millions of dollars of jewelry a year and they aren't going to pay much more than what is fair. Nothing will make it mean as much to you as grandma's ring did.  It may be replaced for $8,000 and it might take $12,000 depending on the price of gold and how old your appraisal is.  If the Jeweler appraised it for $10k and the insurance company says we are only paying $8k I have yet to see a jeweler who wasn't happy to get the business.

With a motorhome one of your best defenses is paperwork to show the upgrades and maintenance you've done on it.  Adjusters need to document why they paid what they did on a claim so that a year from now when an auditor is looking it over and the conversations are long forgotten it is apparent the claim was settled fairly. If you added a 42 inch flat screen and a $3,000 backup camera system the adjuster has a lot easier time justifying that if you have the receipt where the work was done.  If you did the labor yourself indicate that and make notes about what the estimate was to have it done at the factory.

The adjusters with our company are regularly told to search the policy and look for a way to pay the claim. Sometimes the insured makes that difficult to do because they don't have any documents to substantiate their loss. 

Of course what Jim said is true as well.  There is a lot of difference in an ACV, RC, and SV contract.

If all your paperwork is in the coach it may be difficult to retrieve after a fire or theft.
Rick & Rhonda
2003 U320 4220  Build #6199
Was
91 36' GV 300 Caterpillar, 92 40' U280 300 Cummins, 97 36' U295 300 Cummins, 2002
U320 450 Cummins
(Guess we're hooked)

The selected media item is not currently available.

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #14 –
JMHO, but you can likely for a price insure a motor vehicle (which is what a MH is) for an inflated value. But realistically the insurance companies are going to use "book value" + or - a small % as a base for settling with you should a total loss occur, regardless of weather it just had tires, a new paint job, and a new interior. As others have said keeping documentation may help getting that little extra +. Also while our motor homes are special to us to the insurance company they are just business, maximize premiums, minimize loses. 
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Insurance Question

Reply #15 –
Quote from: bbeane –
JMHO, but you can likely for a price insure a motor vehicle (which is what a MH is) for an inflated value. But realistically the insurance companies are going to use "book value" + or - a small % as a base for settling with you should a total loss occur, regardless of weather it just had tires, a new paint job, and a new interior. As others have said keeping documentation may help getting that little extra +. Also while our motor homes are special to us to the insurance company they are just business, maximize premiums, minimize loses. 

Actually, having your records for new tires, new interior, rebuilding engines, transmissions and paint jobs can and should make a difference. It did with the company I worked for.

Essentially, you have a couple of choices. Either see if you can get a reliable appraisal of what yours is worth on the day of that appraisal and see if you can insure it for that or provide documentation after a total loss to support your own valuation. What also affects that is to be sure that you understand the loss payment provisions of your policy or what would more than likely be an endorsement to the policy. If you want to do the former speak with your agent or company and determine what is agreeable to them regarding appraisal.

Many are those that I have dealt with, in the past, thankfully, that have never read their policy and wouldn't even after they experienced a loss. They simply demanded what they thought they were due and in many cases ended up being disappointed. I know that understanding policies and interpreting them can be and is difficult for many. It isn't always easy for experienced claims people. The reason for that is that not every scenario of a loss can be anticipated in the language of a policy and there comes a time when someone has to interpret it, but don't use that as an excuse for not trying.

Another thing you should know is that to some extent the experience you have with a claim depends on the individual claims person and/or his or her manager that you end up dealing with. There are claims people that don't always deal with customers in the most ethical way and there are reasons for that which are not worth discussing here.