Botched AirForce One install!

Topic: Botched AirForce One install! (Read 1806 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Botched AirForce One install or defective module?

Reply #25 – January 26, 2014, 10:40:43 am

Hi Dave & Nancy,

Yep, that is the right place, except we used eTrailer.com. Our bracket is similar to the one in the photo and the switch is exactly the same. Even though the page says designed for Roadmaster braking systems, these are standalone parts that have nothing to do with braking systems. Switch mounting is adjustable and places the switch so the plunger is depressed when brake pedal is at full up position. You may want to call Roadmaster support for exact part number for your beautiful Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. For example, our Jeep Grand, uses Roadmaster P/N 751449.

We ran a single wire from Jeep switch to a motorhome dash LED. Even though it is not needed for our Jeep, we installed LSL Toad-Charge to keep our Jeep battery from discharging, which is helpful on long trips where we don't disconnect for many days.

Roadmaster has a vehicle specific page that offers good info, even if not using a Roadmaster braking product.

We used the Roadmaster web page to find a steel seat bracket that is used to quickly attach an air cylinder, and purchased a few unique shaped 'fuse taps' (those gadgets that present a wire connection from a tab that touches a fuse leg). I did call Roadmaster and bought the seat bracket & fuse taps directly from Roadmaster.

Re: Botched AirForce One install or defective module?

Reply #26 – January 26, 2014, 11:05:07 am

Howdy Barry and Cindy,
Thanks for your reply and information. We use a Brake Buddy system, and it has a wireless "brake activated" warning system. I'm not really "in love" with it, so thinking about changing to a hard wired warning light.
I really like the idea of a switch attached to the brake pedal. Did you source the 12vdc for the dash warning light from the towed or the coach? If you sourced from the towed, and only used one wire, then you used coach ground for other side of light?
My current wireless light transmitter is sourced from the Brake Buddy, and the receiver is powered in the coach.
Thanks for your help/advice, Dave and Nancy A

Re: Botched AirForce One install or defective module?

Reply #27 – January 26, 2014, 11:12:29 am

Quote from: GLV – January 26, 2014, 12:00:54 am

Perhaps the problem is in the breakaway switch circuit.

I vote for this probability ... and running the toad-brakes-applied signal to a light on your dash (vice something to look for in the rear view mirror or camera).

Re: Botched AirForce One install or defective module?

Reply #28 – January 26, 2014, 11:28:59 am

A dash mounted light is a good idea and certainly on my project list. As far as the breakaway switch being the culprit, I tested it before we started and pulling it out applied the brake pedal and activated the LED indicator. The pedal appeared to release when the coach brake pedal was released, but the toad wheels were locked. Even if the toad's pedal was slightly depressed but not enough turn on the toads brake light, the wheels would still be able to roll, just not freely.
Right now, we are here in Havesue to have a good time so I am going to shelve in depth trouble shooting the AF1 for later. I do however want to determine the source of the metered air and see if the installer hooked up to the parking brake air supply.
Don

Quote from: Harvey Nelson – January 26, 2014, 11:12:29 am

I vote for this probability ... and running the toad-brakes-applied signal to a light on your dash (vice something to look for in the rear view mirror or camera).

Re: Botched AirForce One install or defective module?

Reply #29 – January 26, 2014, 01:13:58 pm

Don, Reading all this it is mystifying to say the least. What comes to my mind is that if brakes still locked and no application of air .... Is pressure being released from the master cylinder ? Don't know why it would not release but its one scenario.
On an US Gear system that I removed from a friends Honda I found a one way valve in the vacuum line, have no idea why but reading this maybe there is a relationship. On that system would vacuum still be applied to master cylinder booster even tho brakes released ? I know I have been no decisive help but good luck with it.
Gary B

Re: Botched AirForce One install or defective module?

Reply #30 – January 26, 2014, 02:37:22 pm

Don, My son and I have installed three Air Force ones the thing to look at is the T connection on the vacuum line. It has a check valve that must be set in the correct direction per instructions. If set opposite it may do what your seeing check valve. Elliot

Re: Botched AirForce One install or defective module?

Reply #31 – January 26, 2014, 03:41:20 pm

Howdy Dave & Nancy,

Yep, we use a ground wire between motorhome & jeep that is part of our tow wiring plug. And the Roadmaster switch is wired to Jeep battery (though a small amp fuse). For such an important function, probably better to not rely on wireless signal and to have an independent party reporting on brake pedal movement. Part of our get-ready to drive off, I stand behind Jeep to check for turn signals & brake lights, and Cindy makes sure the motorhome dash light comes on when she presses motorhome brake pedal.

To determine what amp fuse to use, I use a low amp fuse and if it blows, I put in the next size, etc. Measuring amps with a meter also can work.

You guys take care and be safe.

Re: Botched AirForce One install or defective module?

Reply #32 – January 26, 2014, 04:36:04 pm

So it appears that the parking brake theory is the correct one. This is a bit surprising because it seems to me that this part of the braking system is similar to SOB coaches that have air brakes though they mostly use drum brakes, which I would guess would be most diesel pushers. I called the SMI helpline and texted him these pictures. The first shows where the installer put the tee and the second shows where he should have put it.
Don

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #33 – January 26, 2014, 06:13:38 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – January 26, 2014, 03:41:20 pm

Yep, we use a ground wire between motorhome & jeep that is part of our tow wiring plug. And the Roadmaster switch is wired to Jeep battery (though a small amp fuse). For such an important function, probably better to not rely on wireless signal and to have an independent party reporting on brake pedal movement.

Howdy Barry and Cindy,
Your "independent party" comment is exactly why I'm thinking of installing a warning light system, triggered off of Brake Pedal.
As always, thanks for your help/advice, Dave and Nancy A

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #34 – January 26, 2014, 08:27:36 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – January 25, 2014, 11:28:05 pm

AirForce One is a good product and most are happy with it. But it is one of the most complicated tow brakes on the market and requires quite a bit of installation. They use large air brake relay valve that makes two taps to air lines on the motorhome and send another air line to the toad. Because they use a small low power air cylinder to pull the brake pedal, it requires a vacuum pump (that drains toad battery a little) to create power brake vacuum normally created by a running gasoline engine. And this pump is tapped into the toad vacuum line.

We all like the simple procedure when getting ready to tow, but I am turned off by the many parts that have to work. The company does not promote the details of what it takes to do its job.

By the way, we purchased a Roadmaster brake light bracket and switch that turns on motorhome dash LED whenever the brake pedal is not at full off/up position. It requires a wire connection from toad to motorhome dash. I see this switch has also been installed by other Forum members. It operates completely independently from any braking system and lets us know when toad brake pedal has been pressed and when it is fully up.

According to a vendor at a booth in Q, the vacuum is created by a venturi connected to the coach air, no electric needed.

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #35 – January 26, 2014, 10:51:56 pm

"According to a vendor at a booth in Q, the vacuum is created by a venturi connected to the coach air, no electric needed"

Be very wary of vendors at any trade show. They do not represent the company. The installers could be hired off the street with questionable credentials.

As always. FWIW

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #36 – January 27, 2014, 08:59:46 pm

Don, glad that you confirmed my idea, have seen that done a few times while I worked in a large dealership.
Sometimes the guy doing the install does not know what the spring brake is. That is where experience pays off. Sometimes experience comes at the expense of someone else. Good luck on getting your issue resolved.

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #37 – January 27, 2014, 09:03:25 pm

Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment.

- Mark Twain

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #38 – January 28, 2014, 11:21:40 am

@Tom haven't heard that one and I love Mark Twain. Good one...

see ya
ken

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #39 – January 28, 2014, 12:01:33 pm

Ron, you and Dave M. Both hit the nail right on the head... Just another reason to love this forum! Thanks to you both and everybody who posted suggestions. It is always easier to solve a problem when you have a starting point. I have switched over the metered air supply tee to the service brake port, but have yet to test it. You can bet that we will be darn sure the wheels are rolling freely on the toad before we hit the road!
The installer has agreed to reimburse me of most of the cost of the new tires, but that door won't be closed until I have the check cashed and the funds in my hands...
Don

Quote from: red tractor – January 27, 2014, 08:59:46 pm

Don, glad that you confirmed my idea, have seen that done a few times while I worked in a large dealership.

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #40 – January 28, 2014, 12:06:02 pm

@Don great news. Glad you are getting reimbursed. Eases the pain a little.

see ya
ken

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #41 – January 28, 2014, 12:16:06 pm

For me the big news side is the system can apply braking to the point of lockup, makes me feel better as was wondering just how effective they really were. Also delighted the system is not activated by the retarder or sone other magic crap, just the service brakes. PTL
I love simplicity.

Dave M

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #42 – January 28, 2014, 12:22:05 pm

+1

I feel my rig & towed stops better with the afo than the coach alone.

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #43 – January 28, 2014, 08:44:12 pm

+ 1 here also. No issues at all.

Richard B

Re: Botched AirForce One install!

Reply #44 – January 28, 2014, 09:23:20 pm

Don,

Glad you got things worked out. We're very happy with ours and I'm sure you will be also.

Rich

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