30 Amp service question

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30 Amp service question

February 25, 2014, 08:10:06 pm

I have noticed while trip planning that many SPs only have 30 amp service available. I have the 50/30 amp pigtail. Are these things safe? Does it make sense to avoid these parks when trip planning, especially in the summer?
Other than less load available, what should I expect when using a 30 amp service?

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #1 – February 25, 2014, 08:27:41 pm

No problem as long as you don't use too many amps.

30 amp vs 50 amps is a lot more "different" than that math suggests.

50 amp RV service provides TWO 50 amp hots= 100 amps total.

So, it is 100 vs 30.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #2 – February 25, 2014, 08:39:50 pm

The short answer is that the only problem you will have is that instead of 12,000 watts delivered to your coach you will only have 3,600. Everything works the same BUT if you try to use too much power you will trip the campground's breaker.

In practical terms that means you probably can't run both air conditioners.
We don't hesitate to use a SP, Corps Park, or other park providing only 30 amp service.
[UNLESS I am in Texas in the summer]
A caveat, we will ask for 50 amp service if we can get it.

The 50 amp receptacle is designed to connect to two hot lines, a neutral line and a ground. Each of the hot lines is capable of delivering 50 amps (thus 100 x 120=12,000 watts). The 50 to 30 adapter connects its single hot line from the 30 amp plug to both lines that the 50amp receptacle uses as hot lines. This gives you a single hot line from the campground capable of delivering 30 amps (30 x 120=3,600 watts) to the coach.

hth

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #3 – February 25, 2014, 08:52:57 pm

OH! You are a busy poster! All those things that you think about getting ready for the coming season. Good to ask though, lots of experience and help here.

30 amp pigtails are fine as long as they are in good condition. If the cord is cut or worn or the plug blades look burned or anything looks melted, get a new one.

30 amp service will work just fine. The only limitation is that you should only run one AC or the other but not both at the same time. Two bigger loads at a time. The inverter/charger is using power too.

110v 30 amo service uses one leg of the two in the box and will get you a max of 3600 watts. The 220v 50 amp plug uses both legs for about 6000 watts per leg or about 12,000 watts if loads are balanced. 50 amp gets you more than three times the total power.

30 amp service is fine, just manage loads. 50 amp service is just like running your generator. Everything is good to go.

That's about all I know about it.

Roger

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #4 – February 25, 2014, 09:06:59 pm

Yes, Roger, we are headed to the Big Bend area in a couple of weeks. I am still at the point where I wake up in the early mornings thinking about my coach and what I should do. Kind of like when I was working...hmm..

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #5 – February 25, 2014, 09:14:42 pm

During a very hot summer we stayed in a county park that had been built by COE. Electric service was 30 amp. I checked voltage and it was about 106 inside the coach. We moved to a spot closer to the electric distribution panel and voltage was about 110. During the hot days, we disconnected shore power and ran the generator in order to have two air conditioners. At night 30 amp service was fine. I used a home made pigtail.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #6 – February 25, 2014, 09:21:52 pm

Same luck, all 30 amp plugs I have found were not up to the task of even 30 amps, they were all older installations, weak breakers, small wire, low voltage, in general not what I was willing to live with. One place I just lived on my batteries and the generator. That worked out just fine.
Good 30 amp service, I feel is a rare find.
Dave M

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #7 – February 25, 2014, 09:37:15 pm

I have had mostly poor results with 30 Amp service. If I run the refrigerator and water heater, on propane and turn the inverter's charger as limit to 5 Amps, all works well. If I try running one roof unit on either a/c or heat pump, I need to closely monitor the line voltage. Without the roof unit, I can usually get by.

One more thing, my dogbone 30 to 50 adapter is getting old and has experienced too many bad receptacles. I occasionally wire brush the prongs with my Dremel to remove tarnish and crud.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #8 – February 25, 2014, 09:50:57 pm

On our way home from Lebanon we stopped at Bennett Springs State Park, talked to the people at the entrance booth, and then drove around the upper campgrounds looking for a possible spot for the weekend of our auction. We found several likely spots. I checked the electrical pedestal at a couple of them, and both were 30A. On the way out I asked whether there were any 50A sites up there. There aren't - yet. They will be upgraded at some point, but they didn't know when that would be. We can probably get by with the 30A service for that weekend.

For those who are interested in visiting that park, the lower campground DOES have 50A service, but no trees. That campground is like "a trailer court" to use the terms of one of the employees. The upper campgrounds have more trees.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #9 – February 25, 2014, 10:03:39 pm

Has anyone used the dual 30a pigtail into a 50amp outlet?

Do they work?

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #10 – February 25, 2014, 10:36:27 pm

I can run on 30 amps fine. It is tough on 20 amp lines. If the power is lower bad and it is not super hot I carry a battery charger. I hook it up to my house batteries and it keeps them charged and I life off the inverter. Woks well up north were they seem to have built the campground 70 years ago.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #11 – February 25, 2014, 11:00:11 pm

Most of the State parks and County parks with camping that have electric service that has been added recently. We have found the 30 amp service to be pretty good. A private CG near Bayfield, WI was pretty marginal. I do like John, carry a battery charger and use that if the voltage is low. There is always the generator.

Big Bend NP has a parking lot like CG at Rio Grande Village with hookups All others have none. The main CG at Rio Grande Village is roomy. Lots of bigger RVs with generators. We were there for a week with temps up to 103. We had no problems running on the generator for about 3-4 hrs a day. Run the AC to cool the coach down in the late afternoon. Temps cool off at night.

We have done 10 days unconnected, just generator. It works just fine. Have fun. BBNP is very nice.

Roger

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #12 – February 25, 2014, 11:08:50 pm

Quote from: John S – February 25, 2014, 10:36:27 pm

If the power is lower bad and it is not super hot I carry a battery charger. I hook it up to my house batteries and it keeps them charged and I life off the inverter.

A standalone charger will make its way into my storage bay or towed vehicle. I like the idea. Thank you.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #13 – February 25, 2014, 11:19:21 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – February 25, 2014, 11:08:50 pm

A standalone charger will make its way into my storage bay or towed vehicle. I like the idea. Thank you.

Yes I carry one in the tow cars trunk. Into the coach it goes. Plus a Hughes auto transformer I think. .i need one if someone is selling one btw

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #14 – February 26, 2014, 06:12:16 am

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – February 25, 2014, 11:08:50 pm

A standalone charger will make its way into my storage bay or towed vehicle. I like the idea. Thank you.

I carry one as a backup too just in case the main inverter charger stops working - otherwise there's no real good way to charge the house batteries with out disrupting my trip significantly.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #15 – February 26, 2014, 06:48:43 am

As others have written, "50 Amp" service actually provides 100 Amps of 120 Volt service, which is more that three times the power available from "30 Amp" service. However, we have used "30 Amp" service when that was all that was available with no problems. One simply needs to pay attention to the power usage, and (for example) avoid using the second air conditioner (unless one chooses to operate the generator. I haven't used one, but there are "intelligent" power management devices available that will allow the use of "30 Amp" service to be more convenient by switching certain high-current items on and off.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #16 – February 26, 2014, 12:43:09 pm

They have 50amp hookups at the Stillwell Ranch RV park near the east entrance of Big Bend NP. A nice place to stay. Pick a rocking chair on the porch in the morning with the other coffee drinkers or one in the evening with some other refreshing drink.
Last time I was there a few years ago it was $18 a night.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #17 – February 26, 2014, 01:01:44 pm

I find too many parks where the 30A receptacles are in poor condition, loose and burned, and running low voltage when the park is full in the summer. 50A service in the same parks is fine.

I was at one of these parks on an Elks rally a few years ago and my friend in a sob was having so much trouble with 30A that I gave him my 30A autoformer. He uses it all the time, and when it broke, e immediately bought a new one. I have a 50A autoformer that has never been hooked up.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #18 – February 26, 2014, 01:09:55 pm

Ok Tom,

Will the autoformer 50A work on a 30A pigtale?

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #19 – February 26, 2014, 02:08:09 pm

Yes it does work on 30 amps. I have used it before

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #20 – February 26, 2014, 02:14:38 pm

Thanks John

I knew someone would know.

Hope I never need to use it but I have it. Left over goodies from my 88.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #21 – February 26, 2014, 02:31:11 pm

So any expert electrical folks?

I have a 2 plugs - 30A or 1 30A and 20A wired into a 50A female. Looked at the wiring all looks like white to white, black to black, green to green.

I have 2 30A plugs at a campground on the pedestal.

Does this make 50A? Using the 2 hots, 2 neturals and ground $:-\$

I will be at this camp for 3 months thru summer so I need a solution.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #22 – February 26, 2014, 02:51:11 pm

Quote from: fouroureye – February 26, 2014, 02:31:11 pm

So any expert electrical folks?

I have a 2 plugs - 30A or 1 30A and 20A wired into a 50A female. Looked at the wiring all looks like white to white, black to black, green to green.

Does this make 50A?

No. Not in the sense of a true 50 amp 2-phase hookup. At best you would have 20 or 30 amps available on each hot, all dependent on the campground wiring.

RV Electric scroll down the left and select 30/20 pigtail for more explanation.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #23 – February 26, 2014, 03:03:56 pm

Thank you Michelle, now that makes sense with the detailed explanation.

Re: 30 Amp service question

Reply #24 – February 26, 2014, 03:43:20 pm

Further on in Michelle's link ...

"If the "cheater" will work, you can bet that the campground wiring is pretty old or not done to the National Electric Code."

The 20 amp outlets are normally GFCI in newer campgrounds. These will trip with a 20/30 amp cheater.

Last summer in Canada the provincial parks we visited all had 30 amp outlet posts and most of those had 20 amp outlets as well. One post for each pair of adjacent campsites. Everyone had really long extension cords. The park office had loaners if yours wasn't long enough. Lots of folks ran a second extension cord to the 20 amp outlet for other things outside the wiring of the camper. I have seen this done in many places in the US as well. Run a battery charger or unplug you basement freezer from the coach and plug it into the 20 amp feed. Check the polarity and voltage before using.

Watch voltages. In older parks or when when loads are high voltage drops. At 112 volts or so you need to start worrying about electronics and many other device that don't do well on low voltage. (There are a lot of these in your coach) Remove one of the loads or disconnect and run on the generator or use an external battery charger and run off the inverter.

My opinions. Yours may be different.

Roger

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