Coach body resting on tires?

Topic: Coach body resting on tires? (Read 1621 times) previous topic - next topic

Coach body resting on tires?

March 10, 2014, 09:39:30 pm

I've noticed that there are worn places in the fiberglass directly above each tire. Some of the spots are pretty shallow, and some are more than a quarter inch deep. Sometimes the HWH system levels the coach with one or more tires in direct contact with the body, while other times there is a little bit of clearance. There have been a couple of threads that kind of talk about this, but nothing that really addresses this issue. Starting from travel mode, the HWH system will first dump air at the high side and then add air to the low side.

My owner's manual says that the engine should idle for about 15 minutes or so to let the turbo cool off. During that time I'm thinking that I should leave the HWH system in travel mode while I put the tire covers on, or at least get them over the tops of the tires, then level the coach. Would there be any advantage to dumping the air so that the coach is on the tires, then leveling, or would that be causing damage?

I do have an appointment at HWH for next month to get the system checked out.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #1 – March 10, 2014, 11:52:37 pm

David, I will start something on this so folks can take a shot at it! I will assume system same 1993 and 2001.

On mine, I can rest on the tires and not damage. Do not drive it in dumped mode.

I can dump and then level. It gets the coach lower, step lower, if that is desired. I usually though just level from travel.

Interestingly, there is a protocol sequence of how it approaches leveling, someone will need to remind me. But the coach does something like start the leveling by always raise or lower one part first and then adjusts the other to meet that if it can. If not, it adjusts in another direction and reverses the process....wish I remembered that sequence!

Seems you are warm and unstuck so life is better?

Mike

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #2 – March 11, 2014, 08:09:12 am

I usually drop the coach and then level but if it is an unleveled site I will level from travel mode. This will usually result in one or more tires being rested upon. It provides stability to the coach when it is resting on its tires or bump stops if you have a 2002. I have some grooves in my wheel wells too. They were there when I got the coach. I wonder if the previous owners tried to drive with it not fully aired up.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #3 – March 11, 2014, 08:51:06 am

Mike, yes we are warm and unstuck. We've actually been out in the coach a couple of times, not camping, just driving on various errands.

It sounds like my idea may be a reasonable method. That's what I'll do unless someone comes up with a better idea.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #4 – March 11, 2014, 09:31:22 am

Im confused

Tires resting on floor of coach - ok? Shouldn't it be on the stops?

Overtime this will warp the fiberglass-floor.

After 20 years my stops are warn, so I got 3/4" nuts and put them on the frame next to the stops. Perfect 1/4" gap all the way around, now all I need to do is weld them on.

Just my take - lot of info here on this issue.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #5 – March 11, 2014, 10:01:22 am

Gentlemen ,
As you can see when the coach is sitting on the stops the tires are touching in the wheel well. The load is on the stops not the wheel well.
When you hit a hard bump and you hear that loud bang that is the coach bottoming out and the tires then momentarily touch and add to those scuff marks.
When it wears through you need to add some fiberglass to keep it water tight.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #6 – March 11, 2014, 10:34:03 am

On both our 99 and 95, if you dump all of the air from the system the coach floor rests on the tires and leaves indentations. FT tells me that this is normal and does no damage. Seems like a poor design to me. One way to avoid it is to level from a raised position. Just raise the coach and then tap Air again. That way when it levels down it won't have far to go. The disadvantage of this technique is the step might be higher than you like.
jor

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #7 – March 11, 2014, 11:37:01 am

I just put an additional 1/2" of stop on the orginal frame stops. If I should need to move the coach in the event of a leveling failure nothing hits.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #8 – March 11, 2014, 11:41:17 am

Bruce how did you achieve this result? Did you weld some steel or glue some other material to the stops?
Don

Quote from: bbeane – March 11, 2014, 11:37:01 am

I just put an additional 1/2" of stop on the orginal frame stops. If I should need to move the coach in the event of a leveling failure nothing hits.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #9 – March 11, 2014, 11:57:39 am

This subject was discussed some time ago. I remember Wyatt added a spacer to his air bag: Tire clearance issue

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #10 – March 11, 2014, 12:42:25 pm

My fix is to raise the coach all the way up then hit level. Coach stays high but level that way as it lets air out of the high end/side only.

Keith

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #11 – March 11, 2014, 12:57:32 pm

Quote from: Keith and Joyce – March 11, 2014, 12:42:25 pm

My fix is to raise the coach all the way up then hit level. Coach stays high but level that way as it lets air out of the high end/side only.

Keith

I second this. Where I park my coach at home, the front left needs the most lowering, and i sometimes find the step resting on the ground. When this happens, I raise the entire coach, then hit autolevel again.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #12 – March 11, 2014, 01:01:01 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – March 10, 2014, 09:39:30 pm

Would there be any advantage to dumping the air so that the coach is on the tires, then leveling, or would that be causing damage?

David,
I believe there is a potential for damage if you blindly dump all of the air bags. It will depend on how planar the spot is, not how level. When dumping all the air, the rear of the coach will drop completely on both sides with tires contacting floor. Because the majority of weight is on the rear this will set the tilt of the coach from side to side. When the front of the coach drops, one side will contact the floor first depending on how "out of plane" it is compared with the rear axle. From that point on, additional dropping will twist the coach body between the front and rear axles and not actually achieve much drop.

The section on leveling in my owners manual states:
"VERT IMPORTANT NOTICE: If the attempted front raising or lowering is in excess of what the coach is designed to do, the excessive twisting motion can damage the motorhome and windshield seal."
A. The front can be safely raised only until either side air spring reaches the approximate maximum of 12 1/2". The front can be safely lowered only until the floor hits the tire."

Let me explain that I have a MANUAL air leveling system whereby I directly control the three points (left rear, right rear, and front center) via levers so the instructions are more involved than with the automatic HWH system. I would suggest reading your manual to see if there is a similar warning about twisting. As far as I know there are no suspension or frame differences between my '91 and your '93. I have heard that the Grand Villas (due to the large windshield cutout) are more susceptible to this than a bus style Unicoach.
Hope this helps.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #13 – March 11, 2014, 06:11:31 pm

David,

As John says, damage could possibly be done if the coach puts too much weight on one corner with the HWH. I can occasionally hear creaks as the coach levels itself. The main structure is strong but the nose does not have any structural members that I can see or at least not on the roof. The roof is rock solid until you step out on the nose to do anything. It's like a trampoline out there. If you take a mirror and open the overhead doors in the nose, you can see there is a lot of foam insulation up there but not much else. I generally lie down and work myself forward to do any work. Think this is why the windshields pop loose so easily. I take it easy making transitions from paved road to the shoulder if there is any drop. Even then, I get a noise in the windshield area.

Pierce

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #14 – March 11, 2014, 06:21:19 pm

Okay, I stand corrected. I'll continue letting the HWH level the coach, and then tweak it manually if needed. We have an appointment with HWH to check the system and fix any issues they find, so maybe I'll just have to be patient for a while. We're talking about the Oklahoma Grandvention and then on down to Nac. Wonder how many others are thinking about the same thing.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #15 – March 11, 2014, 11:57:28 pm

One hates to post nonsense or something not sure of, but I am sure an expert at FOT told me that the 2001 is built to handle some wheel well resting on the tire, that it helps stabilize the coach in level if one wants. As I said, I just level from travel.

But I have seen it settle to the passenger front tire in contact with wheel and other points level to that. Someone I think told me that is by design to get the step lower to the ground. Anyone confirm that?

In truth though when I level from travel it often has all wheels not touching. One fellow I know parks at a site with it dumped and level, all wheels touching.

David, as you read though, may be difference in the GVs and bus style.....I sure try to avoid twisting the coach.

Spring has begun in East Texas....come visit!

Mike

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #16 – March 12, 2014, 12:32:43 am

FWIW James T. at the GV said his preferred method to level the coach is to dump the and then level, so it is possible that you would be touching one or more wheel wells. Course James also said put out the slides, then level, which drew much opposite commentary on this board.

I do like to at least rial level when I get to a spot, with 40' there are more places that won't level than with the 36, due to same travel over a longer wheelbase in the 40.

Once I know I can level, I dump, put out slide, and level. You may prefer a different method, and that is what makes the world an interesting place!

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #17 – March 12, 2014, 12:50:44 am

I did indeed install half inch spacers at the top of each airbag and now when all air is dumped, the weight is sitting on the rubber bumper inside each airbag. The tires do not touch the underside of the floor and the metal donuts welded to the framing are not touching the opposing framing member.

If I am at a level spot in travel mode, I just dump the air to park. If not at a level spot in travel mode and only staying for a couple nights, I will auto level. If not at a level spot in travel mode and staying for more then a week, I will move the coach around until I find a level spot before dumping the air.

I seldom use autolevel mode because I found that it was inconsistent. I installed level indicators on the dash at the driver's seat so that I can see how level the coach is in travel mode.

I am skeptacle about increasing the size of the metal donuts and using them as dump stops. Metal on metal contact in suspension system tends to cause stress damage. I believe that Foretravel should have built their coaches such that when all air is dumped, the weight is on the rubber bumpers inside the airbags and not on the tires or on the metal donuts. This is how my coach is now, rubber contact if the suspension bottoms out.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #18 – March 12, 2014, 01:12:18 am

My 200 levels quite icily, having checked it multiple times with a level. I do think that is adjustable if there is an issue, has not been with mine. Auto level a favorite feature, right behind the aqua hot and Residential Refrigerator.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #19 – March 12, 2014, 05:46:17 am

I level from Travel mode. If I am on a fairly level site I may lower the coach a little then level. However I try not to let the coach get on the frame stops, and if necessary will use boards under the tires. JMHO but allowing say one wheel to get on a stop then the other side/end starts trying to raise up will put undo stress on the corner that is all the way down, but thats just me.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #20 – March 12, 2014, 06:10:43 am

Quote from: acousticart – March 11, 2014, 11:41:17 am

Bruce how did you achieve this result? Did you weld some steel or glue some other material to the stops?
Don

Don I used some 1 1/2" bar stock I had laying around cut 1/2" thick pieces 8 of them, roughed up the surfaces with a rasp on the old stops including the area on the sides and new pieces and used 3M 52 or 5400 to glue them down. The 3M stays somewhat flexable, they have been there for 2 years so far. The main reason I did it is my tire dealer had a REAL good price on some 295 size tires that where slightly bigger than the 285's, also I wanted to be able to move the coach if necessary in the event of a leveling system failure. I posted some pictures awhile back

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #21 – March 12, 2014, 10:36:31 am

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Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #22 – March 12, 2014, 01:44:37 pm

Thanks for the reply Bruce. One question though, did you make them a little bit larger than the pucks? I am assuming you did since you mention roughing up the sides of the pucks for better adhesion. I think I will do something similar with some polyurethane bump stops. time will tell if the will bear up under that kind of load.
Don

Quote from: bbeane – March 12, 2014, 06:10:43 am

Don I used some 1 1/2" bar stock I had laying around cut 1/2" thick pieces 8 of them, roughed up the surfaces with a rasp on the old stops including the area on the sides and new pieces and used 3M 52 or 5400 to glue them down. The 3M stays somewhat flexable, they have been there for 2 years so far. The main reason I did it is my tire dealer had a REAL good price on some 295 size tires that where slightly bigger than the 285's, also I wanted to be able to move the coach if necessary in the event of a leveling system failure. I posted some pictures awhile back

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #23 – March 12, 2014, 04:21:16 pm

Don, Bruce

Do you think I need to replace th 3/4" nuts with solid stock?

Put them outboard to the existing bumper on the frame, because I could reach it.

Re: Coach body resting on tires?

Reply #24 – March 12, 2014, 06:23:39 pm

some noted, is the level system adjustable for level. On the 2001, it is.

Our coach leaned just a bit low to the passenger side when parked. And the auto level works very well, for month at a time with no change now that air leaks are fixed, the check valves working fine, solenoids too.

But to change the set lean, I wanted it to lean just a little low on the slide side so water would drain off of the slide. We adjusted it to do that. I have yet to try it a while, see if I like that better. But the point is, you can adjust. With ours the mercury switch sensor in under a drawer by the refrigerator, on top of a bay. HWH has instructions online of how to adjust. As oft said, use the kitchen counter as a surface to determine level, the coach was made for that as a good reference spot.

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