Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Topic: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics (Read 5361 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #75 – April 20, 2014, 12:31:29 am

Kind of a bummer if it turns out to be the pump. I have my fingers crossed for you. Thanks for this awesome documentation of a problem I am sure to have down the road. I should upload some pics of all the work I've done though most of it falls under the routine maintenance category.

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #76 – April 20, 2014, 01:14:51 am

Well Dori was still under the weather today so didn't do the test drive. She made a good recovery this afternoon so a test drive is in the works for tomorrow. The results will determine which direction I head on Monday. East or West? Maybe we should start a pool!

@piku Thanks for the well wishes. Right now I just want if fixed. Don't really care anymore the cost (within reason!). I'm not a religious man but I'm saying a little prayer that everything tests out on the test drive tomorrow! And by all means post your maintenance with pics it will help others and if nothing else it's a log of the work you've done. The posts I did last year have helped me immensely with this project. Plus we like to watch vicariously over your shoulder at the work you're doing while criticizing everything you do!

Hope we meet up somewhere down the road. If you see Big Agnes parked anywhere be sure and come over and knock on the door or use the door bell it works!

see ya
ken

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #77 – April 20, 2014, 08:05:58 am

Ken,
I hope the test ride provides the results you are looking for. I know it can sometimes get very frustrating to run down a problem. Good luck.

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #78 – April 20, 2014, 09:08:22 am

Took a deep breath just now !
will Hold it till the next post, do it quick Ken !!!!

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #79 – April 20, 2014, 09:22:28 am

Ken have you replaced and adjusted the Sun Hydraulic pressure controller?

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #80 – April 20, 2014, 12:30:14 pm

@Brett I did replace the Sun Hydraulics "Relief Valve Cartridge" to keep the terminology correct. Part number RPGC-JAN. NEW SUN HYDRAULICS RPGC JAN CARTRIDGE HYDRAULIC VALVE D283291 I'm not sure if it's the same as a "pressure controller" in the hydraulics world. I have tried adjusting it while the engine was idling and it had no effect on pressure or rpm.

Dori is feeling much better today so we plan to do a test drive to warm up the engine then do an rpm test at full throttle while watching the pressure. I'll try adjusting it when I'm checking the rpm. I'm shooting for 2000pm on the fan motor at full throttle.

You can be sure I'll be reporting back on my results. As you are probably aware I need all the help I can get and the voices here have gotten me this far!

see ya
ken

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #81 – April 20, 2014, 01:56:54 pm

Ken,

Would be concerned if the Sun Hydraulic adjustment did not materially change PSI that there was another pressure relief bleeding off PSI. One full turn on the Sun unit should raise PSI by several hundred PSI.

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #82 – April 20, 2014, 05:02:05 pm

Just finished the test drive and found a spot to test rpm and pressure at full throttle. Unfortunately nothing has improved. Maximum was actually down from 1000psi to 800 to 900psi at full throttle. Fan rpm came in at 800-900rpm. Arggh!

OK so now I'm studying the flow diagram I drew up and the only other place I see to test is if I disconnect hoses 3 & 5 at the Hydraforce and slice them together then disconnect hoses 7 & 8 at the Hydraforce and splice them together I've eliminated the Hydraforce completely from the circuit. This really wouldn't be very difficult. I can get plugs for the tee's on the Hydraforce and straight thru connector for the hoses. Less than $20 bucks to try it. If it increases the pressure and rpm of the fan motor I at least know it's somewhere in that circuit causing the problem. If that doesn't fix it then I'm pretty much looking at the pump! Which I just replaced last year.

@Brett I agree with you it's strange that adjusting the Sun Hydraulic has no effect.

Anyone out there have any other ideas??

see ya
ken

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #83 – April 20, 2014, 06:31:56 pm

E-mail James Triana your diagram and results with new pump and Sun Hydraulics unit. I have no experience with the Hydraforce unit.

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #84 – April 20, 2014, 07:01:40 pm

Maybe it is time to change the Thermostats.
just a thought

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #85 – April 20, 2014, 08:19:48 pm

Ken
I see wear like that on motors all of the time. Most likely when pump failed is when most damage occurred. Also age. You have drained the oil several times. Same as a flush. New filters fill and go. Make sure you set your pressure to much will hurt the shaft seal case drain really is for cylinder wall wear. You can remove the gauge fast and leave the tee with a cap. Wipe up top off with oil then drink a b__r and say I'm good.

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #86 – April 20, 2014, 09:07:33 pm

Ken always remember in hydraulic world flow is speed or in your case fan rpm. Pressure is resistance that creates force. First off is your fan a sucker or a pusher. If the fan is not rotating the right way you will not have as much resistance. This can happen real easy because most motors are bidirectional by reversing the hose hookups. If motor is installed 180° off motor is now rotating wrong. Hence not as high of a pressure reading. In AZ you have no humidity so air moves easier. Less resistance. I really dought 2000 rpm for a big fan is right. How are you testing the rpm? Look on line how to tell what rotation a fan blade is and then check yours. If it a sucker cover the inlet with cardboard to restrict air flow then check pressure at highway rpm. It should really raise your pressure. Pm me and I will give you my cell number.

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #87 – April 20, 2014, 11:05:28 pm

@Brett I'll email James but he takes a while to respond.

@Bill I want to get the fan speed back to normal before I mess with thermostats.

@Alan Mine is a sucker. ( and so am I!) I was very careful to install the hoses so that the fan is turning so that air is sucked in through the radiator. I'm using a digital photo tachometer to measure the fan speed. I've sent you a pm.

see ya
ken

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #88 – April 21, 2014, 08:33:45 pm

Today I plumbed around the Hydraforce (High/Low valve). I capped the hose connections for 3 & 5. I then used a union to connect hose 3 to hose 5. This completely removes the Hydraforce from the hydraulic circuit. Unfortunately when I started the engine at idle (600rpm) still only 400rpm for fan motor and only a little over 100psi hydraulic pressure. At full throttle (2100rpm) fan speed is only 800 to 900rpm.

Not sure what to test now. Looks like the only thing left is the hydraulic pump? I just replaced it a year ago. Maybe it was defective? I'm going to call around tomorrow to see if any of the hydraulics shops can bench test it for me. Really not looking forward to pulling it...

Let me know if any of you come up with anything.

Edit: added picks of the hydraulics flow diagram I did originally and the bypass around the Hydraforce.

Edit2: wanted to add that the Sun Hydraulics valve adjustment was cranked all the way down for the tests.

see ya
ken

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #89 – May 02, 2014, 10:26:38 am

Ken, have you resolved your radiator hydraulic issue? What be happening?

Roland

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #90 – May 02, 2014, 03:46:15 pm

@Roland Sorry for the lack of communication. Dori had some health issues we needed to take care of and that's been my focus for the last week. She was having some serious abdominal muscles spasms that she equated with labor pains. They where lasting upwards of 45 minutes. She's been to the doctor and it's been diagnosed as a weird form of acid reflux. She's on Prilosec and doing much better.

I've thrown in the towel and we left early this morning heading for Nacogdouches. Progress has been slow. Trying to keep the temps from going up too much. Was ok this morning but now that ambient temps are going up so is Big Agnes's temp.

We made about 170 miles today and plan on about 20 more to get to the next rest stop. We will lay low there go to bed early and leave about 2 or 3 am. Hopefully we can get a few more miles in tomorrow. Hey we only have 936 miles to go! Probably take us 3 or 4 days to get there. Wish us luck.

see ya
ken

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #91 – May 02, 2014, 03:49:18 pm

Good luck and drive safe.

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #92 – May 02, 2014, 04:46:54 pm

Hope the Prilosec helps Dori, not fun being sick when you supposed to be havin' fun. I have a friend that has a 93 280 with a detroit, blew the engine because of overheating. Cost of repair 29 coach bucks. That is why the interest.

Roland

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #93 – May 02, 2014, 09:25:13 pm

Ken
Good luck with the drive to Nac. Keep us posted.

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #94 – May 02, 2014, 09:53:03 pm

Thanks for the well wishes. I'm driving with one eye on the temp gauge and one on the road. There were times today I was doing 30mph down I10.

It was embarrassing being passed by ratty looking beat up Winnebagos... I just stay in the right lane with the hazard flashers on. Hope I'm not doing too much damage to Foretravels reputation!

see ya
ken

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #95 – May 02, 2014, 09:59:45 pm

I had a friend of mine with a fan problem on a unihome with the Detroit 6v92 that caused it to heat up. He hung a 20 inch box fan on the side grill to move the air and was able to drive it that way. Might be worth a try.

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #96 – May 02, 2014, 10:04:38 pm

Quote from: kenhat – May 02, 2014, 09:53:03 pm

Hope I'm not doing too much damage to Foretravels reputation!

ken

Probably no more than the Foretravel in the latest Escapees mag going up in flames.
Good luck with the hydraulics,
Dori, get well soon,

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #97 – May 02, 2014, 10:22:48 pm

Only takes a couple minutes with an electric screwdriver to remove the outside grill. A couple of big 12V fans might do the trick to get it to the shop. See at: Zirgo 16" 3000 CFM Radiator Fan Street Rod 12V ZFB16S | eBay They are available at auto parts houses in most any town. Plastic push through mounting hardware make installation fast. Even if you had to pay $100 each, it's cheap compared to the damage possibility.

Running the generator with a couple of box fans like above post would also be a good idea.

I also have kept the dash heater on high in several vehicle to drop the temp a bit.

Pierce

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #98 – May 04, 2014, 06:20:47 pm

We made it to Mason, TX earlier today. Found a nice city campground with big pecan trees and green grass. Haven't seen green grass since last year! $20 with 50amp, sewer and pretty darn good internet.

Spent the last 3 nights in rest areas along I10. It worked out well since we could leave the car attached and just fire up and go in the middle of the $%^&* night without disturbing other campers. We've been leaving a 4:00am to miss the heat of the day. Usually don't have a problem with engine temps until the ambient temps hit 70˚ or until we hit hills. Little known fact: apparently all roads in TX are uphill! At least so far they have been.

Have a 350 mile drive into Nac tomorrow. Plan to leave at 3am. Luckily only a couple of other campers here and none near us.

Will post more info after I talk to FOT.

see ya
ken

Re: Need help understanding my radiator hydraulics

Reply #99 – May 05, 2014, 01:19:11 pm

Made it! Got in right before noon with a 3am start. Long day already. Haven't talked to a service rep yet. Need to take Dori out for lunch at Cold Springs. She deserves it putting up with me the last 4 days. She doesn't like to get up early and I've been rousting her out of bed at 2:30am everyday!

Will post when I have more...

see ya
ken

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