Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

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Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

April 22, 2014, 02:38:51 pm

By way of introduction: We are looking to buy our first motorhome and are interested in Foretravel. With our modest budget (and our unwillingness to take out a big loan) we are focusing on late-90's Foretravels. My perception is that a well-cared-for older Foretravel is probably a better deal than a new or nearly-new entry level motorhome.

One of our requirements is insulated/dual-pane windows. From what I have been able to find researching on-line, it appears that insulated windows were offered as standard equipment with Foretravel beginning in 1999. I have not found them listed as optional equipment for those earlier than 1999.

Is this correct? Were insulated or dual-pane windows available before 1999? If so, how commonly where they ordered?

Please understand that we are located in a remote area of West Virginia, so there are not a lot of units for sale close to us. We plan to narrow our search over the internet, then travel to see those units that look most promising.

I know I can send out individual inquiries to those who have listed Foretravels prior to 1999 on the internet, but if I know what the chances are that earlier models included insulated windows, I might save myself and the sellers some bother.

Thanks!

Wayne

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #1 – April 22, 2014, 03:41:20 pm

Wayne, 1997 was the first year of insulated windows for Foretravel.
Good luck on your quest for a coach and welcome to the club.

Richard B

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #2 – April 22, 2014, 04:49:07 pm

Welcome, Wayne. Yes, a Foretravel will be a better bet than just about any other coach. From what I've heard, the late 90's Foretravels are arguably the best that Foretravel made. We're very pleased with our 1993 U300.

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #3 – April 22, 2014, 05:03:19 pm

Hi Wayne,
Our 1997 U 320 came with the insulated/dual pane windows. Just check for the "snake" problems with the Creation/Creative brand windows. All nineties Foretravels came with Creation/Creative windows. The material used to separate the two pieces of glass can move/wiggle. This does not look good. It does not let air between the pieces of glass. They work fine as is. They can be repaired. Or they can be replaced with new.
Raymond

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #4 – April 22, 2014, 05:10:30 pm

Wayne, My 95 U280 does not have insulated windows. We have traveled all over the country in all kinds of weather. ( Denver at 10 Degrees, Wichita at 114 Degrees. ) and although insulated windows would be nice the FT's are so well insulated that we do not miss them. They can always be retrofitted.
See:
1995 U280 for sale

Gary B

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #5 – April 22, 2014, 05:21:41 pm

Our 1997 U295 has dual pane windows. My understanding is that they were stock and not a special order item. The coach spent most of its time between trips in an airplane hangar in Texas until 2010. We've had the coach since then and it lives outside in Texas all the time. One window has a "crawly snake." None of the windows has moisture between the panes.

You can find a wealth of information about features and amenities here: Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #6 – April 22, 2014, 05:57:01 pm

Welcome Wayne. You have chosen the best coach to start with, after finding the perfect Foretravel you will not have to waste any more time looking. Insulated dual pane windows were one of my requirements also.
I believe 1997 was the first year for dual pane windows. I purchase a 1999 U295 and have enjoyed it immensely. I have the "snake" problems with a couple of the windows but no problem with moisture between the glass. Just need to take time to correct this minor problem.

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #7 – April 22, 2014, 06:04:27 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – April 22, 2014, 05:21:41 pm

One window has a "crawly snake." None of the windows has moisture between the panes.

Would this fix it? Buy window rebuild kit

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #8 – April 22, 2014, 06:12:42 pm

Quote from: PatC – April 22, 2014, 06:04:27 pm

Would this fix it? Buy window rebuild kit

Yes, and there are several shops around the country that specialize if fixing creeping seals. We had 4 done at Sun Coast Designers in Hudson FL this winter. There were 20 coaches in getting exactly the same thing done when we were there. Water and electric and dump station while you get the work done (ours took 1 day-- pull them out one morning, rebuild, let sealer set and install the next morning).

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #9 – April 22, 2014, 06:13:08 pm

Yes PatC, that would fix it. I have read about that company and believe they have the answer to the problem. My only problem is I am too out of shape and old to do the work myself. I might find someone close by to do the work for me.
Glad you posted that link to jog my memory. Thanks

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #10 – April 22, 2014, 07:15:49 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies!

Okay, 1997 was first year. Does that mean it was standard beginning in 1997? Or an option beginning in 1997. Was dual pane glass an available option before then? I have seen from the brochures at the site J D Stevens posted a link for that it is standard from 1999, but I cannot tell anything for model years before then. I don't even see it as an option before 1999 when the brochure in the link shows it was standard. I would expect it to be an option before it was included as standard, but I could be wrong on that.

BTW, my reason for insisting on dual pane glass is that we camp a lot in early springtime in the mountains here in WV. The travel trailer we have is okay in the cold, except for the windows, They sweat profusely. I want dual pane windows to mitigate the sweating.

Wayne

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #11 – April 22, 2014, 07:50:05 pm

We camp when we can expect cold nights often in our '93 U225 (which was an "entry level" coach back then... at $250k!) even in the winter and have been comfortable in temps into the 20s. We close off the windows with the day/night shades and then pull the curtains. At night we lower the coach temp to 55F and either put a down quilt over the bed or turn on electric blankets (if we have power it's the blankies).

In the morning the first one up turns the heat up. Takes about 15 minutes to get the coach up to a temp that is comfortable (for us that can mean anything from 60 to 70 depending upon what we're going to do that morning).

We have never had a big "sweat" problem. Foretravel furnaces work pretty well.

I knew of one early 90s U300 (side aisle) that was custom made for a family in Montana that had double-pane windows. At the time I was not familiar with Foretravels and passed on the deal ($17k!!!!) but I do recall that the rig had been built especially with MT winter camping in mind. So they're out there!

Craig

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #12 – April 22, 2014, 08:13:23 pm

We've not had any condensation issues on our 93 U300, and we've been living in it since January. Yes, we went through quite a bit of propane when it was below zero outside.

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #13 – April 22, 2014, 08:19:31 pm

My '95 was retrofitted at extreme I believe before I purchased it. Just ask when inquiring. Look also at the Factory website as well as Motor homes of Texas site. These are the best source for coaches besides this site.

Keith

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #14 – April 22, 2014, 08:41:21 pm

@Wayne Insulated windows are nice and if I had known better I would have looked for a coach with them when we purchased. The do help hold heat in and are sound deadening. They are a good thing.

Condensation is caused by too much moisture in the air. When winter camping especially you need to manage that moisture. The windows insulated or not will always be colder than the walls so will attract the moisture first. Cooking, showers and breathing are the main culprits. When cooking or bathing be sure to have the fan on to pull moisture out out of the coach. I watch the windshield (by the way not insulated) to monitor condensation. As soon as I see any sign of it the fan goes on. We've stayed in our coach in Denver over winter with only a few days where we had to wipe windows down in our uninsulated windows coach.

I've also heard of using a small dehumidifier to control moisture. If I ever do another winter in the coach I'll probably try that.

Good luck in your search. You can do much worse than a Foretravel!

see ya
ken

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #15 – April 22, 2014, 10:41:56 pm

Quote from: Mountain Couple – April 22, 2014, 07:15:49 pm

Okay, 1997 was first year. Does that mean it was standard beginning in 1997? Or an option beginning in 1997. Was dual pane glass an available option before then? I have seen from the brochures at the site J D Stevens posted a link for that it is standard from 1999, but I cannot tell anything for model years before then. I don't even see it as an option before 1999 when the brochure in the link shows it was standard. I would expect it to be an option before it was included as standard, but I could be wrong on that.

Best of my knowledge the double pane windows were standard starting in 1997. Amenities introduced in the U295 in 1997 included double pane windows, ducted air conditioning, screen door, parallel hinged bay doors, and hinged cabinet doors.

Our "target" coach was a 1999 U320 36'. We bought a 1997 U295 36'. We've been pleased with the coach. It was about half the price of the 1999 U320, suits our needs, was for sale only six miles from our home, and came with a Jeep attached to the back. We've had it four years, driven it about 45,000 miles, and are starting to do some upgrades (floors and headlights).

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #16 – April 23, 2014, 10:11:25 am

My 96 doesn't have the dual pane windows. Since I use it in the winter as a man cave I fitted 1/2" foam insulation into the windows. Mine also only has one furnace so that's something you want to be aware of, most have two but I don't know where that line is. You'll want two. Another minor inconvenience on mine, the water heater is gas only. No electric or engine assist on it. Not a deal breaker but be aware of it.

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #17 – April 23, 2014, 11:14:03 am

In general, U270 has one propane furnace, U295 has two propane furnaces, U320 has Aqua-Hot. Special order coaches will vary from the "standard" specifications. With two propane furnaces, the rear one usually has two 2" ducts to the basement. We were especially pleased to have two furnaces during the trip when one furnace failed.

U295 has a few more amenities than the U270. The U270 has more storage space and is a bit lighter in weight.

Our 1997 U295 has a 10 gallon water heater that heats water with engine heat, 120VAC, or propane. That was a standard installation on the 1997 U295.

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #18 – April 23, 2014, 10:26:20 pm

Thanks for all the information.

I can live with gas water heater. Thus far we haven't camped enough with hookups to make electric hot water a big consideration. Aqua-Hot or equivalent is attractive.

I'm happy to learn what the differences are between the different levels of Foretravel.

So, dual-pane was standard in 1997, and I've seen it on a few earlier models I've looked at. That seems to cover my needs. I don't have a good comfort level buying a motorhome any older than about 1995.

Again, I appreciate all the good input. I'm a willing learner.

Wayne

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #19 – April 24, 2014, 03:32:59 pm

You need to know that if or when dual pane window seals fail, having them repaired is somewhere around $300 ea. I have 10 windows. Also if sun is a problem in summers, the heat stopping tint can easily installed on single pane windows.

We tinted our singles, and we will now get to repair our dual pane windows in this coach.

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #20 – April 24, 2014, 07:30:46 pm

I would opt for changing to the Peninsula windows if mine start the snaking. Since my coach stays in the garage about 10 months a year, maybe the snakes will hold off.

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #21 – April 24, 2014, 07:52:13 pm

With all due respect to those who have a different experience . . .

Here in the Allegheny Highlands, the air in winter is surprisingly humid. Much more so than the Rockies or the Southwest in winter. Condensation is a big problem. I have had experience camping in an RV with single pane windows. Not pleasant.

I'm less concerned about insulation than I am about windows sweating in late winter/early spring or late fall, when I'm camped for long periods fishing my favorite trout stream. I can afford the propane to heat the camper; I cannot stand all the condensation making a mess. And, yes, I've tried ventilation, etc., etc.

I really do not care much about the cost of insulated windows. Based on my past experience, I will personally not buy another RV of any sort without insulated/dual-pane windows. But maybe that's just me.

YMMV

Dave M – I've noted the advantages of the Peninsula windows. Thanks!

Wayne

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #22 – April 24, 2014, 09:17:50 pm

We have a '96, build number 4805, that came with dual pain windows. With the right money you can get anything. Wouldn't be without them!

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #23 – April 25, 2014, 11:38:40 am

Yep. Dualpane is something I wish we had. When we overnighted last, on new years, condensation was so bad it made a puddle on the nightstand. It wasn't just humid out, it was *humid* , close to 100%. I'd like to do the dualpane conversion. Better start saving pennies!

Re: Insulated/Dual-Pane Windows?

Reply #24 – April 25, 2014, 04:09:20 pm

I made storm windows for my last motorhome and they work great and don't cost much. Not as handy as dual pane windows but 0 condensation.
I used it for skiing so I put them through the test.
Peter

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