Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

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Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

May 03, 2014, 05:17:26 pm

I just removed the Progressive Industries hardwired HW50C that was installed at the last Quartzsite event. It was installed by an individual who was a tech for Progressive Industries (or at least claimed to be), and I observed the installation. Everything appeared to be done in at least a workman like manner, and it is a simple and easy install... other than working with that uber-stiff cable. Anyway, my better half was disturbed by the 60Hz hum, which has seemed to be getting louder of late. I removed it today and am going to put it down in the utility bay while I am working on the Glendinning CRR-50 Cablemaster cable reel and Hosemaster hose reel installation. It occurs to me that our HW50C may be defective, so before I put it in down there (and have to yank it out later for repair or replacement), I thought I would ask the group. Does your HW50C hum a tune that is hard to live with? Assuming yours is under the bed like ours was...
Thanks!
Don

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #1 – May 03, 2014, 05:50:25 pm

No hum at all on mine on 5 yrs

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #2 – May 03, 2014, 06:02:39 pm

Thanks for the thought Dave. It was installed and dusty conditions out in the desert, but in looking at it, it doesn't appear that the contactors are exposed inside the box like they are in the transfer switch. Doesn't appear to be any way to clean them, And I don't guess that I will be taking apart an item that is still under warranty, so it looks like I'll need to contact aggressive and get an RMA. I guess I will hold off on putting it in for now... I do have a pedestal mount surge protector to use in the meantime.
Don

Quote from: Dave M – May 03, 2014, 05:40:11 pm

Don,
Usually when that design relays hum is due to dust/rust on the pole shoe not allowing complete magnetic cobtact. The power contacts should be fine, but with the dust-rust holdibg the magneti poles apart, they sure hum, 60 hertz hum is it.
Would guess if the hum has been going on, maybe it was exposed to weather or dust.
Cheers
Dave M

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #3 – May 03, 2014, 07:26:31 pm

I was just pulling out the load side of the cable which was short piece cut off the original shore power cable. Fortunately, There was enough length of the original cable to reconnect to the transfer switch. Anyway, I noticed that the bare ground wire which is attached to the side of the case was very loose. I wonder if it's possible to this ground wire because the humming sound? If so, maybe I will go ahead and install it while I'm doing the power cord real install.
Don

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #4 – May 03, 2014, 10:16:57 pm

Don, a poor ground can, indeed, induce a 60 Hz hum.

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #5 – May 04, 2014, 01:09:18 am

We have two Progressives (before and after the transfer switch), but the only hum comes from the transfer switch. I've thought about switching to DC contactors (filtered DC...), but it would be a lot of work. Might try rubber mounting the box and coating it with some damping material.

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #6 – May 04, 2014, 02:27:21 am

Interesting... our transfer switch seems completely silent. The EMS however was very noisy... the bedroom is quiet again (except for the ringing in my ears

) now that I removed it. If the transfer switch was noisy, I would have tried some Dynamat on it. I will probably end up sending this unit back to Progressive Industries, but since I found the ground on the load was loose, I think I will try it in its new location first. If I then send it back, at least I won't have to fabricate the mount for it. I replaced the shore power receptacle too, so I can use the old one to bypass the EMS if it is still noisy when I relocate it. I considered getting more of the twist lock shore power connectors so I could patch the EMS in and out but man, those things are expensive! As it is, I put a female (like the coach end of the detachable OEM cable) on the pigtail from the cord reel. I plan on just leaving it plugged into the new receptacle on the utility panel. Then if we are plugging into 30amp power, I will just unplug it and use the 50 to 30amp pigtail I bought to keep the cord length to a minimum. Also, if there is a problem with the cord reel, it will be simple to bypass it.

Don

Quote from: Dave Katsuki – May 04, 2014, 01:09:18 am

We have two Progressives (before and after the transfer switch), but the only hum comes from the transfer switch. I've thought about switching to DC contactors (filtered DC...), but it would be a lot of work. Might try rubber mounting the box and coating it with some damping material.

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #7 – May 04, 2014, 02:33:27 am

I am familiar with the ground loop hum induced into the audio signal by not having the same clean ground path for different pieces of equipment in the signal chain (what musician isn't

), but I have never encountered a mechanical noise produced by a loose ground wire... anyway, I will try it with a good ground and see if it is still noisy. The display never showed any errors though, so it must have been making contact.
Don

Quote from: kb0zke – May 03, 2014, 10:16:57 pm

Don, a poor ground can, indeed, induce a 60 Hz hum.

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #8 – May 04, 2014, 01:56:16 pm

Don,
When I installed my hard wired Progressive EMS I thought it hummed too much and called the factory. I got quite a sarcastic answer from them that there was nothing wrong with the unit, and all of them hum. So now I live with it and don't really hear it much anymore but is still there humming along. Maybe the hard mounting on the plywood helps amplify the noise. Maybe try some rubber feet?
Good luck,

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #9 – May 04, 2014, 02:15:11 pm

RE: hum comes from the transfer switch. I've thought about switching to DC contactors

The 'original' ATS-100 transfer switch has some cool features, one of them being the shore-power contactor has a DC coil, to eliminate hum.

In order to keep our ATS-100 in service, we recently found replacement contacts (called 'contactor kits') for the Furnas brand contactors. It seems only the points get damaged over time and all the other part continue to work ok.

We also copied (thanks) Dave & Nancy and now have Progressive EMS before and after our transfer switch, with two displays in the kitchen.

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #10 – May 04, 2014, 02:30:57 pm

Quote from: acousticart – May 04, 2014, 02:27:21 am

Interesting... our transfer switch seems completely silent. The EMS however was very noisy... the bedroom is quiet again (except for the ringing in my ears ) now that I removed it. If the transfer switch was noisy, I would have tried some Dynamat on it. I will probably end up sending this unit back to Progressive Industries, but since I found the ground on the load was loose, I think I will try it in its new location first. If I then send it back, at least I won't have to fabricate the mount for it. I replaced the shore power receptacle too, so I can use the old one to bypass the EMS if it is still noisy when I relocate it. I considered getting more of the twist lock shore power connectors so I could patch the EMS in and out but man, those things are expensive! As it is, I put a female (like the coach end of the detachable OEM cable) on the pigtail from the cord reel. I plan on just leaving it plugged into the new receptacle on the utility panel. Then if we are plugging into 30amp power, I will just unplug it and use the 50 to 30amp pigtail I bought to keep the cord length to a minimum. Also, if there is a problem with the cord reel, it will be simple to bypass it.

Don

Don,
Some transfer switches pull down a relay when on shore and others don't - they use the normally closed contacts on the relay.
Good idea on using chord connections. I did the same on my coach. I had a transfer switch go out and instead of it becoming an inconvenient repair in the middle of a trip all I had to do was remove the normal power chord to the pedestal and use my 50 amp extension chord to go directly from the pedestal to the receptacle I added that heads to the panel under the bed - bypassing the transfer switch.

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS- Problem Solved!

Reply #11 – May 05, 2014, 12:43:54 pm

It was a pain, but the EMS has been relocated to the utility bay where it will live humming a tune no one will hear... it is behind the new cord reel inline with the shore power inlet. The cord reel hose reel project is not quite done, but here is a picture or two of the new location. I will do write up of the total project with pictures after I finish it.
Don

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #12 – May 06, 2014, 09:13:28 am

Installed 2 years ago under bed. No issues. No sound. Was a pain dealing with the stiff wires in tight area! Interesting to know someone else did the same.

David

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS- Problem Solved!

Reply #13 – May 06, 2014, 09:48:29 am

Don,

My shoreline reel bit the dust - white neutral wire shorted to one leg. I also should replace the chipped drive gear on the motor for my model RV5036-01. Has anyone been able to get the manufacture (TDI) to sell replacement parts or find another source? Yea, I know, replacement is easier and less risky; seems no one repairs anything these days.

What brand you choose, price and where did you buy it? Did you have any problems installing the new one due to its width - did you have to remove the hose reel?

Jim
2002 U-320
308-440-5154

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS- Problem Solved!

Reply #14 – May 06, 2014, 01:24:49 pm

Jim,
There is a thread overrun FMCA forums Repairing Shore Power Cable Power Reel - Electrical - FMCA Motorhome Forums dealing with the repair of the stripped gear on shoreline reels. One of the member's sons has set up a cottage industry selling the gear which is no longer available from the manufacture.
Our coach came with neither power cord reel or hose reel. I chose the Glendenning CRR– 50 Cablemaster reel from Glendinnings website (Store), partly because of the problems I read about with the Shoreline real and also because this one was smaller in diameter and I would be able to keep some of my storage space as well as install a hose reel along with it. I also got a Glendenning hose master water hose reel from camping world on sale. Based on the dimensional drawings, I realized it wouldn't fit in the normal installation scenario. But I figured I would be able to modify the hose reel, and the cord reel so that the motors would face each other and share some of the same vertical space saving some width. I wanted to get one the tub type Cable storage units, but I couldn't see a way to make it fit without taking up excess storage space and making it nearly impossible to fit the Hose reel at the same time. Now that I'm almost done with the project, I believe I could have made the other one fit, I felt it was too expensive to risk not having it work. Could still would've wiped out any extra storage space. This is combined with a waste master sewer hose project and some other ancillary updates of the utility compartment. It is a long and fairly involved project overall, and I will do a write up with pictures on it later. But here is a picture showing the placement of the cord and hose reels while I was doing the fitting.
Don

Quote from: Jim Frerichs – May 06, 2014, 09:48:29 am

Don,

My shoreline reel bit the dust - white neutral wire shorted to one leg. I also should replace the chipped drive gear on the motor for my model RV5036-01. Has anyone been able to get the manufacture (TDI) to sell replacement parts or find another source? Yea, I know, replacement is easier and less risky; seems no one repairs anything these days.

What brand you choose, price and where did you buy it? Did you have any problems installing the new one due to its width - did you have to remove the hose reel?

Jim
2002 U-320
308-440-5154

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #15 – May 07, 2014, 02:06:27 am

Don,

Looks great! It's on our list. Where do you keep your sewer hose? Looks like the door to the sewer hose storage is blocked...

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #16 – May 07, 2014, 12:46:05 pm

Thanks Dave. The plan at this point is to leave the sewer hose connected (the cam lock assures no leakage) as we move from park to park (Like Maz). The nozzle end will be shoved under the shelf (it has a valve that has a positive shut off, so I will just sanitize the business end before storage), along with the rest of the hose. There is just enough clearance with the door closed for the hose to make the bend. If I won't have a sewer connection, then I will cap the other end of the hose and slide the whole thing under the shelf. I will probably make a hatch of sorts out of Starboard that will cover the opening under the shelf to tidy up the appearance before I call it done. I built a dam (see picture) to finish off the back of the little compartment created by the shelf to keep any potential sewage contamination from oozing under the freshwater tank. The sewer hose storage tube and hatch is gone. It was completely useless anyway. I couldn't get a hose with a standard Valtera connector on it to go around the corner, so the sewer hose has been living in a plastic tub with the FW hose and power cord and adaptors etc. piled on top. PITA to hook/ and unhook with that arrangement.
Don

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #17 – May 07, 2014, 04:17:33 pm

I keep my sewer hose in a large bucket. I found a lid for buckets that screws on and has an O ring seal . This way the sewer hose does not have to be squeaky clean when I finish dumping and cannot clean up the hose, and all smells are contained in the bucket. If and when cleanup is needed I simply use some soap and half a bucket of water , comes out clean and sanitary.
Store the bucket in the 1/2 bay next to the water bay, no cross contamination either.
Gary B

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #18 – May 07, 2014, 04:26:53 pm

This thread has taken an interesting turn. I suspect it will be re-routed soon...

A previous owner installed a large (6-inch diameter) tube of schedule 40 PVC behind the isolator board in the engine room of our U225 that is easily reached by pulling open that door. The sewer hose fits easily into it and is out of sight until needed. There were two (one for an extension hose) of these until we had the starter solenoid (the one on the isolator board) go bad and had to replace it. There was not enough room to work so we simply removed the one for the spare and will do without. We've never needed it in almost 3 years anyway.

The PVC tube angles slightly down from the door and is secured to the chassis farme with stainless adjustable clamps. An excellent idea.

Craig

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #19 – May 07, 2014, 07:25:57 pm

Hi Gary,

Where id you find a bucket with a screw top lid?

Jim

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #20 – May 08, 2014, 08:25:10 am

Jim, I bought the top from a survivalist in W GA. They sold all kinds of food storage gear. Its called a GAMMA SEAL. Marked GAMMA Plastics, San Diego, CA. Its two piece, one is a ring that snaps onto the bucket that is threaded and the other is the lid that screws into the ring., Great for keeping dog food, Bird feed etc. You can use jut about any bucket , I found several in a dumpster and they held premixed drywall mud.
Gary B

Re: Noisy Progressive Industries hardwired EMS

Reply #21 – May 08, 2014, 09:35:50 am

Quote from: Jim Frerichs – May 07, 2014, 07:25:57 pm

Hi Gary,

Where id you find a bucket with a screw top lid?

Jim

Watch for anyone in the pool service business, the chemicals come in screw lid buckets. I put one into curb side recycle bin about every 3 months as well.

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