87 Grand Villa

Topic: 87 Grand Villa (Read 2267 times) previous topic - next topic

87 Grand Villa

May 13, 2014, 10:06:55 pm

Was looking at purchasing a seemingly well kept 87 model 36' that was converted from 429/460 to 8.3 Cummings with 6 spd Allison. Wanted some honest advice on what I should look for or expect when I make the trip to look at this unit. Owner claims it has new tires and appliances and is asking $14,000.00. Say's he isn't sure of mileage??? Nobody will loan a dime on vehicle this age so I 'm left wondering if I should look newer or scrape together what little we have left after Uncle Sams recent visit and hope there is no major issues rolling home to Nashville from Virginia.
Am very much interested in a high quality older coach with mechanical diesel as opposed to a newer and or smaller 460/V10 cheaper built unit. Just don't want a pig in a poke! Any input is most definitely appreciated!

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #1 – May 13, 2014, 10:29:10 pm

Just a few random thoughts. Price seems high for a converted 1987, but if you love it, well, it may be worth it. A 6 speed sounds great in such a rig.

"New tires" can mean a lot of things to owners. Check the tire date(s) and see how "new" they are.

The "conversion" will add a level of "you are on your own here" as I don't think there are many here on the forum with conversion experience to be able to help you if needed.

Here's some other choices in that general price range: Foretravel Grand Villa Motor home and 1991 Foretravel Grand Villa Motorhome

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #2 – May 13, 2014, 10:36:19 pm

Welcome, TAS69. There are several people here who can give you more specific advice. I'll give you what little I know.

Tires: Check the DOT date code on each tire. Since it is only one one side, it is possible that the codes for the duals may be hidden. Taking along a young, agile person with good eyesight may be helpful. Since the seller says the tires are "new" I'd expect a date code of 12xx or 13xx at least. A 14xx would be wonderful, but unlikely.

Appliances: You may or may not like what the seller has selected, so I wouldn't pay any extra or deduct anything UNLESS something major doesn't work. We had decided, long before we started looking for a specific coach, that when the RV refrigerator died it would be replaced with a residential unit. The refrigerator was working (sort of) when we first looked at it, but it had died by the time we went to pick it up. Didn't make any difference to us because we had already planned for a residential unit. DO make sure that the seller demonstrates each appliance.

It sounds like you have done some homework already. You might print out the inspection form and take it along. Not every item will apply, and your own good sense will help you quite a bit. My suggestion is to leave your checkbook at home. That way you won't be tempted to jump before you have truly thought. There are plenty of coaches available, and if anything seems "off" run away. Ask lots of questions, and don't be afraid to ask some really pointed ones. After all, YOU are the one who will be handing over your hard-earned money to a stranger.

After thinking about that last sentence a bit, it sounds a bit harsh, and it really isn't meant to be. Before you make the trip ask the seller if you can ask about the coach my name here on the forum. Someone here may be able to give you more information about it.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #3 – May 13, 2014, 10:39:56 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – May 13, 2014, 10:36:19 pm

Tires: Check the DOT date code on each tire. Since it is only one one side, it is possible that the codes for the duals may be hidden. Taking along a young, agile person with good eyesight may be helpful. Since the seller says the tires are "new" I'd expect a date code of 12xx or 13xx at least. A 14xx would be wonderful, but unlikely.

I think that should be "xx12", "xx13", etc. First 2 are week, last 2 are year.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #4 – May 13, 2014, 10:43:24 pm

Had a rear engine gasser, (1989) blew engine, should have made that swap.

Engine was probably used with miles, see if you can figure out if it came from an RV.

You are a bit on your own. Just was in Nashville for 5 days, would have been happy to look it over for you:-( .

Offer what makes you comfortable. Worse they can say is no, won't be a lot of action on this unit.

Would still prefer it to any other $14k RV I could buy, nice power for that size.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #5 – May 13, 2014, 10:43:49 pm

Hi TAS69,
Welcome to the forum. Ditto.
Also, have you looked at the classifieds board?
There are several coaches listed there.
What are your technical skills? Do you fix your own stuff & to what level?
Good luck with your coach hunt

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #6 – May 13, 2014, 10:44:22 pm

Anytime you consider a vehicle that has had a transplant, it's going to take an extra amount of time and expertise. How well was the conversion done? How does the radiator cool the 8.3? How about the rear end ratio? Will it cruise easily at 65 with another 10 to go or is it getting close to max revs at that speed? It can make a big difference in MPG.

Aside from new appliances, how is the exterior finish and most importantly, how is the undercarriage as far a corrosion goes. You have probably read about bulkhead issues. Not a big deal if taken care of early on.

Sure would be nice to have another owner take a look with you. In my dream world, I would like to see a three person team go over a coach including at least one woman. They always see things the guys miss. Make sure to take it for an extended drive checking that all systems are working as they should. Even more important with a transplant.

Could be a really nice rig but keep a good perspective when inspecting it. The 8.3 coupled to the six speed Alison is an excellent combination but only if it's been done correctly.

Good luck,

Pierce

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #7 – May 13, 2014, 11:29:14 pm

I always do the opposite of what everyone else does and it works great for me. Here's some opposite thinking for you. I've driven all over the country on my 9 year old tires that have no weather cracking and I'm still alive with no blow outs or any kind of tire excitement at all. Other people on this forum would have spent over $10,000 on at least three sets of new tires in 9 years. So I guess what I want to say is don't freak out over the date code if the tires still look like new. Just use the date code as a bargaining tool in your favor when negotiating a lower price, then drive all over the country on your timed out tires if you want and enjoy life.

The most efficient speed to operate a motor coach at is about 60 mph, which basically means a 6 speed transmission won't even be able to shift into high gear unless the rear differential has been modified. Even if it's been geared so the transmission can shift into 6th, do you really want a transmission that shifts constantly? Constant shifting is a major cause of transmission wear and generates extra heat and it can drive you nutso.

The seller has to find a cash buyer because the coach is too old to finance. This gives you tremendous buying power if you've got cash. It's very difficult to find a cash buyer in this economy. Most motor coach buyers with cash will foolishly waste their cash on a downpayment for a new(er) coach and then make payments on it. Make sure you know exactly what coach you want and hold out for that exact coach. You can basically have any coach you want as long as it's too old to finance. So don't buy anything less than what you really want. Definitely don't buy a "starter" coach... All this to say, have you looked at a U300 in the too old to finance category? It's the same price. All the coaches in this category cost less than the cheapest new car you can buy, so pick the best possible one and you'll never want to "upgrade" later. I kinda laugh at the notion of upgrading cuz it's not even possible. The newer coaches are a downgrade when you examine what you're actually getting for equipment but yet they're unbelievably more expensive.

The appliance modification could be a total deal breaker for me. There's no way I'd even consider a coach with a residential refrigerator or an electric stove. I'm sorry but I just can't live without the ability to unplug and run on propane for extended periods of time. It's a freedom thing for me and an emergency preparedness thing. Electric appliances are the exact opposite of what I want.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #8 – May 13, 2014, 11:32:51 pm

If it had a big block ford it was an Oshkosh chassis - bulkhead issues do not apply - they were rear radiator - would definitely agree to drive and see how it handles, shifts, what is RPM at 65 MPH vs. max torque RPM for an 8.3 (don't know, but engine should live at max torque RPM at 65 MPH in top gear if correctly geared in the rear end

Love the idea, think price not right

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #9 – May 13, 2014, 11:52:11 pm

It looks like those two coaches Brad & Christine posted above are U300s that are in the too old to finance category. I would have to seriously question whether I could really live with myself after buying anything other than the finest coach ever made for that same price... just saying

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #10 – May 14, 2014, 01:06:43 am

I think I like the one that is at Canyon Lake. It looks like a good deal to me. I know I would prefer the canyon lake one to the one that has had the conversion. I have an 8.3, and it has been great. I would be afraid of the conversion and would prefer stock. Yes, it may be fine and then again, it may be a headache that certainly could be easily avoided when there are other fine options out there. I have heard really good things about those detroit diesels. I drove one once and it was on a Vogue motorhome and it really did have a nice sound and good performance. Just my 2 cents.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #11 – May 14, 2014, 03:28:10 am

We all have different views of this setup, for me, first off, 6 speed Allison, (computerized) the 8.3 Cummins, is that a mechanical or computer engine ? Would prefer the 640 or 740 series transmission for mechanical engine.
If mechanical, would be concerned about the interface to the 6 speed transmission.
Having done similar repowering, would be looking at motor mounting structure, transmission mounting, radiator setup, driveline angle & slip joint spacing etc.
Brakes, suspension, last way down the list would be paint & body rash, that is easy fix.
Pay the money & take your chances if your a mechanical type, if your a paper pusher, forget it.
Dave M

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #12 – May 14, 2014, 06:09:30 am

Unless you are very mechanically inclined and like to work on things, I would let this one pass. It could be a great conversion, but parts for the conversion part are going to be a real issue to figure out. As Dave M said pay close attention the the radiator/charge air cooler/ transmission cooler set up, make sure every thing stays cool. Also suspension, the 8.3/Allison weights a lot more and has a bunch more torque than the gas set up, that will put a lot of stress on the whole frame/drive axle assembly. As far as the house (coach) part it's 27 years old. Might be a fun weekender/tinkerer coach though. ForeTraveles are fine units but time will get everything sooner or later.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #13 – May 14, 2014, 09:05:00 am

Thank You all very much. Think I'll let this one ride . Save Save Save to the $20,000.00 or so mark where I can comfortably but older unit and tires and be able to afford to fly /bus and drive home from greater distance. I am a remodeling contractor in mid 40's who has always done own maintenance/ repair on vehicles including building a hot rod going on 7 years now!

My Wife and I are planning extensive renovation to the house this fall and want to have a temporary residence on site. Always loved the thought of a motor home and figure we can kill two birds with one big stone here! Thanks again and God Bless. Will check the Classified boards in coming months.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #14 – May 14, 2014, 09:13:26 am

TAS69, I don't believe that you would be very happy with the coach your talking about. Even if money is tight you would be better off with one that you can just drive off in and not be spending big bucks on real quickly.
1995 U280 for sale

This 95 is mine and for sale. Bought today you could drive it til next year before it needs anything and then only regular annual maintenance. Another factor is that mine has Transynd and ELC which greatly reduces your maintenance costs then.
Gary B

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #15 – May 14, 2014, 10:09:32 am

I am completely gobsmacked that Gary has not sold hie U280. I have been in that coach and it's awesome and priced more than just reasonably. Heck... it's cheap. Gary knows what he's doing and has kept the RV upgraded and maintained. Before I bought my U225 I had zeroed in on his coach as the one I would have liked but, naturally, his coach wasn't for sale then.

Craig

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #16 – May 14, 2014, 03:09:19 pm

Thanks again everyone! Will be 4 mos or so before I could dream of paying you a visit Gary. I hope for your sake you've sold by then but if not that looks like its right up our alley!

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #17 – May 14, 2014, 03:21:46 pm

At $9000, it's worth a look. 1986 Foretravel Grandvilla 36, SAN ANTONIO TX - 112251605 - RVTrader.com

Pierce

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #18 – May 14, 2014, 05:13:45 pm

Really 16k for a Banks turbo kit.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #19 – May 14, 2014, 07:25:18 pm

Not withstanding the price is 4x the value of the coach, it is CLEAN from piccy's. (Brian where have you been?)

Headliner still hasn't sagged, decals , chrome and gel coat all look like it has been inside and pampered.

460 OREG 36'. Been there, done that. UGH

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #20 – May 14, 2014, 08:50:48 pm

If you could get it for around 5K, it would be worth repowering.
A turned up Cummins Big Cam III with an Allison.... OUCH!
It would just about fly over the mountains.
I've already decided that when my clatterpillar pukes,
its getting swapped for a mechanical Cummins.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #21 – May 17, 2014, 01:55:27 am

Quote from: fredlewers – May 14, 2014, 08:50:48 pm

If you could get it for around 5K, it would be worth repowering.
A turned up Cummins Big Cam III with an Allison.... OUCH!
It would just about fly over the mountains.
I've already decided that when my clatterpillar pukes,
its getting swapped for a mechanical Cummins.

You will fade the hydraulic disk brakes if driving hard. Work well for two hard stops. Three no....

Same brakes as alpines had. Drove one for a company use for two weeks and was very careful in the big hills.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #22 – May 17, 2014, 09:18:10 pm

Good point Bob.
Slowing is as important as steering.

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #23 – May 18, 2014, 02:37:54 am

Quote from: fredlewers – May 17, 2014, 09:18:10 pm

Good point Bob.
Slowing is as important as steering.

More so.

Your ORED as I remember has a LQ4 valve under the dash that disables the front 15x4 drum brakes unless you hit the brakes hard enough to put more than 60 psi through the system. At normal pedal pressures the rear 15x7 drums are the only ones working. Careful as they overheat if driven hard.

Had a customer redo the system to allow the fronts to work all the time. Much better.

Why did Oshkosh put it in in the first place? A shudder in the front brakes backing up is why?

Gilligs shuddered in reverse from the two different size brake shoes that are partially self energizing going forward. Same thing in reverse caused the shudder from the secondary shoe. ,

Sticking my neck out here as some here are real wrenches and might laugh at me.

Bob

Re: 87 Grand Villa

Reply #24 – May 18, 2014, 08:59:36 am

Was curious if there were any owners of mid ninety's or older units in middle Tennessee area? We've searched every dealership and classified we can and no luck... Would love for my wife to be able to actually see one so as to know what I am carrying on about! By see I mean other than internet photo's.

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