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Topic: looking for advice from the experts (Read 1605 times) previous topic - next topic

looking for advice from the experts

89 u280. Windshield condensation and/or leaks have turned the plywood under the dash to cheese. It is obvious ther there really wasn't meant to be much in the way of "structure" there. fiberglass glued to a piece of 3/8" plywood doth jot much structure make. I wouldn't even worry about it.. except yiu can push on the widshielf at the bottom from the inside and move it out a qtr inch maybe. I am thinking that this might be part of why the glass has popped out of the gasket up top. But even if I replace the plywood, I'm not convinced that I'd gain a whole lot of rigidity. So here is my evil plan. Replace dask plywood. 5200 it to the fiberglass.  Break out the sawzall and welder and some smallish angle iron and make a pari of triangulated braces. They pick up at the bolts at the front of the main framerails and at the base of the firewall. They"ll come up to basically the top of the compartment. I'll tie these triangles together, and run a couple supports from the tops to the outside bottom structure rails. Replace the screw that hold the grab handles with bolts long enough to go through the metal I plan on putting on the backside of their backing plates. I'll tie the grab handle plates to my triangles with square tube. This will locate the bottom of the windshield frame. I am wondering if there is a problem with stiffening the nose too much, ie why in heck Foretravel designed this interface like this. I can't imagine that making it so the base of the windshield frame is less flexible ciuld be anthing other than a Good Thing, but want to run this by the collective before I start.

Jay
1989 U280 SE, 36', 3208T Cat, build 3292

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #1 –
I might call James and talk to him or Rance and ask this question.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #2 –
I will. Of course the added fun is the trip that has to be done that starts this Thursday...
Jay
1989 U280 SE, 36', 3208T Cat, build 3292

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #3 –
Jay,

The same guy that did the main structure could not have done the nose. It's solid as a rock on top but when I step out on the forward section, it feels really weak.

Plywood is strong. Signboard plywood has many layers and really waterproof for outdoor conditions so works well anywhere. Welding might be OK but you might achieve an even stronger structure by using epoxy and Fiberglas cloth and adding the steel to the equation or weld it up and then epoxy it into place. Paint stores usually sell epoxy in several different viscosities  or West Marine and System 3 sell excellent products. Low odor, super resistive to any fuel, very strong and with some effort, you can wash it off your hands if you get some on you.

We get a lot of creaking turning off main roads where there is a drop off and going down river washes to the beach. Even leveling it on uneven ground makes some scary noises. So far, the windshields are OK.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #4 –
Yeah. I think I would be better off locating the nose across the entire base of the windshield. West and fiberglass and real plywood might be better than relying on 2 points for support. The confirmation I think I'm getting though that stiffening the windshield support is a good idea. I think I'll go do the plywood replace and see if sawzalls and welders are even needed.
Jay
1989 U280 SE, 36', 3208T Cat, build 3292

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #5 –
I think it could be a bad idea.  If the coach wants to twist, it's going to twist.  You might just end up with stress fractures radiating out from the grab handles!
BTW, I used the term "twist" but I think the true motion, as viewing the coach head on, is more like a parallelogram. 
Just as a reference, the dash structure on Country Coaches was rigid to the floor and frame rails with no attachment to the front cap.  They had a special made seal (very much like a bulb seal on a car door) that was attaches to the dash deck edge and pressed up against the front cap when it was installed.  The seal eliminated any creaking from relative motion between the two while making it "air tight".
John Fitzgerald
1991 U300 (SAI) Side Aisle Island Bed 40'
Detroit 6V92 with Allison Retarder
Meridian (Boise), Idaho

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #6 –
the plywood is out. I'm glad the section with the upholstry glued to it came out intact; there's my template. The 3/4" structure section was compleletley gone for the first 4 inches at the leading edge. Going to buy a marine grade 3/4" sheet tomorrow (ouch), cut my pattern, Varathane it just to be ocd about it, and glue it to the fiberglass with something other than the silicone the factory used. Was thinking 5200 but I think I want some flex. Urethane windshield seal might be just the thing. But this will be the end of wondering about keeping the windshield in place I'm just sure of it. No angle ironmongery is needed.
Jay
1989 U280 SE, 36', 3208T Cat, build 3292

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #7 –
You might see if you can find a product called "Gluvit" when you buy your plywood. This is a 2-part epoxy that is designed to penetrate into wood and maintain structure when there is some rot. It degrades in UV however so you have to either paint it or cover it or install it somewhere that's dark. I have had good luck with it on wooden boats; extending the life of bits that otherwise would have been very difficult to repair.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #8 –
Twobus, a fellow did some fairly extensive documentation of this exact repair on his GV after having windshields unseat.  IIRC he used 6/10 adhesive, which I believe is an epoxy in a caulk tube type dispenser.  Don't think he's on the board anymore perhaps someone else will remember his name.

I reattached front cap on my bus style but chose to use a polyurethane adhesive with some "give"  similar to 5200.  Not positive this was the right choice but have had no more windshield shift.
"Not so  long ago we were a nation of risk takers, riding five million pounds of  thrust straight into space."  Joe Gresh
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295
2018 Can Am X3 TurboRS

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Chuck Pearson –
Twobus, a fellow did some fairly extensive documentation of this exact repair on his GV after having windshields unseat.  IIRC he used 6/10 adhesive, which I believe is an epoxy in a caulk tube type dispenser.  Don't think he's on the board anymore perhaps someone else will remember his name.

This thread by El_Dorado?  Fiberglass bonding failure
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #11 –
The new bulkhead is in place, and the first layer of adhesive is locating it. The back edge is glued and screwed. I made the thing from pressuretreated 3/4" plywood. That's the thickness the original piece was, once upon a time.
I decided FT had their reasons for doing it the way they did. They easily could have glassed that bulkhead to the wood and made it rigid but they used standard silicone to allow some movement. Rather than buy trouble by  2nd guessing those fellers I did it up exactly as they did only using updated adhesive. 3M 5200 is forever...I don't think the original piece was treated though,  and I added a feature they should have done from the getgo; I canted the plywood slightly nose-down and routed and varnished a small channel at the windshield base that starts off shallow at the driver and passenger edges and gradually grooves deeper toward the center, where I drilled a hole with a drain hose stuck in it. I figure leaks or condensation are inevitable. Now it has a place to go. I should post pix... the rot was amazing. I've gone round, again, to every window frame. This is the only location that has issues. Whew!
Jay
1989 U280 SE, 36', 3208T Cat, build 3292

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #12 –
Twobus, pictures would be great.


 Richard B
Richard & Betty Bark & Keiko our Golden Doodle
2003 U320T 3820 PBDS
Build # 6215
MC # 16926
2016 Chevrolet Colorado 4X4 diesel

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #13 –
Here's the original bulkhead and a couple shots of the replacement. It's amazing that the underside looked completely intact before I removed it. I didn't know it was rotted til I poked my fingers through it :o The first layer of 5200 is in, when it cures up a bit more, the rest will go in. I made sure the backing braces for the grab handles were in decent shape, and I may glue a couple of 2x4 sections under the front leading edge. I also added to the short section of plywood brace they installed on the centerline coming forward to the nose from the firewall. between this fix and going after the broken upper passenger side corner of the windshield gasket, where a prior repair had been attempted (I used windshield urethane to pretty much make a new gasket section. A little release agent on the glass, mold the stuff around, sand it into shape after the cure, it came out pretty well... I hope) that my windshield issues are over, at least for a while.
Jay
1989 U280 SE, 36', 3208T Cat, build 3292

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #14 –
twobus, looks like we are dealing with a Condensate problem.  During the winter we keep 2 Dry Z  cans up on the dash and still there is a water drip problem at times.  How hard was the padded dash removal?

Re: looking for advice from the experts

Reply #15 –
Removing the dash wasn't too hard. I seem to recall cutting the vinyl above the staples, and then just unscrewing the hinge. There was enough slack in there to just re-staple it back on when I was done with the job. i spent way more time adjusting my replacement bulkhead than anything else, template or no. But I figure that's more operator doofusnees than a reflection of how hard the work was.
Jay
1989 U280 SE, 36', 3208T Cat, build 3292